Photographer
James Shuster
Posts: 533
HARFORD, Pennsylvania, US
We've kind of talked about this in the past but lets revisit it.
17yr old (will call them a model just for the heck of it ) Model wants to shoot you set things up but find out afterwards the parents do not support the models modeling, so you get no release.
Now lets say you did not find this out until she/he shows up would you still shoot? ( Me no I would send her home ), so why does MM allow these "Models" on the site. If not careful someone namely the photographer is going to get in trouble with the Law.. Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. I have no issue shooting with under 18 models as long as a parent is present or I have talked with them on the phone and some one 18+ is at the shoot..
Model
Elizabeth Claret
Posts: 56038
Yelm, Washington, US
Um, because not all of them on this site are trying to be rebellious children? Or maybe they're getting ready for when they're 18 and not required to have a parent.
Photographer
bbe
Posts: 32
Washington, District of Columbia, US
That's why you sign a model release and look into her ID.
Model
RoseNoelle
Posts: 75
North Branch, Michigan, US
James Shuster wrote:
Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. What about those who are serious about modeling and have parental support? You can't punish all for the actions of some.
Photographer
Mad Mike Photog
Posts: 63
West Babylon, New York, US
James Shuster wrote:
We've kind of talked about this in the past but lets revisit it.
17yr old (will call them a model just for the heck of it ) Model wants to shoot you set things up but find out afterwards the parents do not support the models modeling, so you get no release.
Now lets say you did not find this out until she/he shows up would you still shoot? ( Me no I would send her home ), so why does MM allow these "Models" on the site. If not careful someone namely the photographer is going to get in trouble with the Law.. Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. I have no issue shooting with under 18 models as long as a parent is present or I have talked with them on the phone and some one 18+ is at the shoot.. Jim,
The legal age HERE is 18. In the UK it is 17. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree.
But the PARENTS are suppose to be "responsible" until the "child" is 18 or 21 in some cases.
It's the same reason they don't take people off this site who haven't been here in 2 years......TIME....you know what that is don't you?
It's something US OLD TIMERS are running out of!!!!
Mike
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
and what kind of trouble are you going to get in with the law exactly? There is no "age of modeling" and no legal age of consent for modeling. So long as you're not trying to execute a contract you'll have no problems. If you are trying to execute a contract, of course you'll need the parents permission, but I can't see any pitfalls for the photographer's pocket book and/or freedom... only lost time on his/her part.
Photographer
bmiSTUDIO
Posts: 1734
Morristown, Vermont, US
James Shuster wrote:
We've kind of talked about this in the past but lets revisit it.
17yr old (will call them a model just for the heck of it ) Model wants to shoot you set things up but find out afterwards the parents do not support the models modeling, so you get no release.
Now lets say you did not find this out until she/he shows up would you still shoot? ( Me no I would send her home ), so why does MM allow these "Models" on the site. If not careful someone namely the photographer is going to get in trouble with the Law.. Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. I have no issue shooting with under 18 models as long as a parent is present or I have talked with them on the phone and some one 18+ is at the shoot.. You shouldn't be setting up a shoot with a minor without either meeting or talking directly with the parents. I set up all my shoots with the parents. If the minor is reluctant to have you talk to the parents, then it's pretty likely they don't know about the modeling or they don't approve. And you shouldn't be photographing a minor without a parent present. If you do and she claims something inappropriate happened, you are screwed.
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Mad Mike Photog wrote:
... The legal age HERE is 18. In the UK it is 17. ... Legal age of what precisely?
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
I keep my dick in my pants and don't shoot anything sexual (like 98% of this site) so I don't have any problems and don't require parents on the set. I don't see any issue at all with having 16-18 year olds on here, and in fact would like to see that lower to include 15 year old models. JJ Art wrote:
Legal age of what precisely? Funny, I can fuck the living shit out of a 16 year old here in MN but I can't take a pic of her that's sexual.
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
BMImages Studio wrote:
You shouldn't be setting up a shoot with a minor without either meeting or talking directly with the parents. I set up all my shoots with the parents. If the minor is reluctant to have you talk to the parents, then it's pretty likely they don't know about the modeling or they don't approve. Good advice
BMImages Studio wrote:
And you shouldn't be photographing a minor without a parent present. If you do and she claims something inappropriate happened, you are screwed. Poppy cock...
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12964
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US
You know of course you don't need parental consent to photograph a teenager under the age of 18 in the U.S..... right?
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
Funny, I can fuck the living shit out of a 16 year old here in MN but I can't take a pic of her that's sexual. Correction... you can't take pornography of a sixteen year old. Oddly... what's pornographic is still quite a bit up for debate.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
JJ Art wrote:
Correction... you can't take pornography of a sixteen year old. Oddly... what's pornographic is still quite a bit up for debate. I think most nude pictures are sexual or porn, and what's art is left up to quite a bit of debate.
Photographer
EGibson Photography
Posts: 526
Rochester, New York, US
BMImages Studio wrote:
And you shouldn't be photographing a minor without a parent present. If you do and she claims something inappropriate happened, you are screwed. So have an assistant?
I'm shooting a 16 year old next weekend. Her mother is dropping her off to the sign the release, but I doubt she'll stay.
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
I think most nude pictures are sexual or porn, and what's art is left up to quite a bit of debate. What you think isn't the reality of the legal system... fortunately...
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
I keep my dick in my pants and don't shoot anything sexual (like 98% of this site) so I don't have any problems and don't require parents on the set.
I don't see any issue at all with having 16-18 year olds on here, and in fact would like to see that lower to include 15 year old models.
Funny, I can fuck the living shit out of a 16 year old here in MN but I can't take a pic of her that's sexual.
Very nice
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
EGibson Photography wrote:
So have an assistant?
I'm shooting a 16 year old next weekend. Her mother is dropping her off the sign the release, but I doubt she'll stay. I always require a assistant if it's a minor and the mon is going to be there. Not because I give a shit about anything going on with the model, but I'm tired of stage moms. So I'm going to have someone there whos sole duty is to hit on the mom for the whole time.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
JJ Art wrote:
What you think isn't the reality of the legal system... fortunately... This is why I vote and write letters...
Photographer
FJL Band Photography
Posts: 187
New York, New York, US
If you do not talk to the parent before hand it is your fault. I am setting up to shoot a 16 year old model (not the type of work you see here) but I will not even set up a date to shoot until I speak to mom.
Photographer
EGibson Photography
Posts: 526
Rochester, New York, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
I always require a assistant if it's a minor and the mon is going to be there. Not because I give a shit about anything going on with the model, but I'm tired of stage moms. So I'm going to have someone there whos sole duty is to hit on the mom for the whole time. haha! That's brilliant -
Photographer
Ray Holyer
Posts: 2000
A couple of months ago I got a job taking photographs of a minor television actor for the website of the series that the actor was in. He'd had exams, or something, and couldn't attend the group shot for the website, so I was asked to take some shots that they could add to the stuff they'd already shot. I had, in the past, done some work for the agent that represented the actor, and he knew that the actor lived not too far from where I'm based, so that was why I was picked.
The time arrived, the actor turned up, having caught a bus to my studio. He changed into his costume, I took the shots, he changed out of his costume and left. I emailed the shots to the agent later that afternoon.
The actor was sixteen. There were no other people present. There was no paperwork. There was no model release. I got paid. I didn't consider it to be exceptional, risky, or whatever.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
James Shuster wrote:
Now lets say you did not find this out until she/he shows up would you still shoot? ( Me no I would send her home ), so why does MM allow these "Models" on the site. If not careful someone namely the photographer is going to get in trouble with the Law.. JJ Art wrote:
and what kind of trouble are you going to get in with the law exactly? There is no "age of modeling" and no legal age of consent for modeling. When people make that statement, I always have the exact same question. Me thinks he is suggesting that you will get in trouble with the law simply for taking a picture of a minor. Of course, there are no laws like that in the U.S.
You do, however, have to be careful of labor laws. As an example, in California, it is illegal to shoot a minor under the age of sixteen for commercial purposes unless there is a parent or legal guardian present. In some situations, you need a studio teacher as well.
On the other hand, if you are just out having some fun and it is non-commercial, there are no issues. So we are clear though, there is a minimum age for commercial photography in some states without the presence of a parent.
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
This is why I vote and write letters... me also... Thankfully people with clearer heads usually prevail
Photographer
Bob Bentley Photography
Posts: 15141
Westcliffe, Colorado, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
I always require a assistant if it's a minor and the mon is going to be there. Not because I give a shit about anything going on with the model, but I'm tired of stage moms. So I'm going to have someone there whos sole duty is to hit on the mom for the whole time. I could hit on the mom for you. Does she have good legs?
Photographer
W Thomas Miles
Posts: 485
Lakeland, Florida, US
This type of problem should never happen. If you run your business properly and screen your models, you should never have a problem with an escort, under age model, parents or the law...
I honestly feel that photographers who get into these kinds of problems make it happen to themselves.
Run your business properly, and you will never have a model show up at a shoot who is under age.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Chris Macan wrote:
You know of course you don't need parental consent to photograph a teenager under the age of 18 in the U.S..... right? Unless you are in a state like California. As I have said before, if the model is under sixteen and the shoot is for commercial purposes, a parent must be present at all times. California isn't the only state that has statutes of that type.
It is covered in the labor code, not the criminal code.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
JJ Art wrote:
me also... Thankfully people with clearer heads usually prevail
where have you been for the past 10 years?
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
ei Total Productions wrote:
So we are clear though, there is a minimum age for commercial photography in some states without the presence of a parent. I'm sure those that these laws are applicable to are well aware of them... if not, then I might suggest they are almost negligent in their work as a photographer
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
James Shuster wrote:
We've kind of talked about this in the past but lets revisit it.
17yr old (will call them a model just for the heck of it ) Model wants to shoot you set things up but find out afterwards the parents do not support the models modeling, so you get no release. Unless you are in Florida where a model under the age of eighteen can sign her own consent/release without her parents permission or participation so long as there is no consideration involved.
I am making all these posts because there is too much generalization going on here. The law is different from state to state.
And, for the record, I have no problem with sixteen year olds being on this site. I shoot minors all the time. I've met some great parents along the way.
Photographer
QPLLC
Posts: 125
Tampa, Florida, US
I worked for a retail camera store who's name I won't mention...and there was a GWC that used to come in all the time with images of models. As he became a little more comfortable bringing his images to us the models seemed to be getting younger in age. After a while it became questionable as to the age of the models and the types of images he was shooting left something to be desired. Seems one of them was under age. Needless to say he had no proof of age for this one and the DAs office sent a detective out to talk to him. I didn't hear what happened to him exactly but I know he did some time because the model was under age. I like to photocopy proof of age and get a release on anyone I shoot so that nothing is left to question.
My 02c worth.
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
where have you been for the past 10 years? writing to my representatives who have been voting the way I've asked... Unfortunately over half the country has less than average intelligence... and if you're intelligent enough to understand that statement then you are in the minority of individuals in this country.
Luckily there's still a sane judicial system... for now...
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
ei Total Productions wrote:
So we are clear though, there is a minimum age for commercial photography in some states without the presence of a parent. JJ Art wrote:
I'm sure those that these laws are applicable to are well aware of them... if not, then I might suggest they are almost negligent in their work as a photographer I am most familiar with the requirements of California because that is where I am based. I do know of some similar laws in other states.
That being said, I am often amazed at how unfamiliar people are with the laws of their own states. I am frequently taken aback but those who view folklore as law and those who see the law as mere folklore.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
QPLLC wrote:
I worked for a retail camera store who's name I won't mention...and there was a GWC that used to come in all the time with images of models. As he became a little more comfortable bringing his images to us the models seemed to be getting younger in age. After a while it became questionable as to the age of the models and the types of images he was shooting left something to be desired. Seems one of them was under age. Needless to say he had no proof of age for this one and the DAs office sent a detective out to talk to him. I didn't hear what happened to him exactly but I know he did some time because the model was under age. I like to photocopy proof of age and get a release on anyone I shoot so that nothing is left to question.
My 02c worth. Describe the photos. Your comments are too vague to evaluate.
Specifically, what do you mean "types of images?"
Photographer
picturephoto
Posts: 8687
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
James Shuster wrote:
Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. It's your problem if you can't get your shit together before a shoot, not MM's.
RoseNoelle wrote:
What about those who are serious about modeling and have parental support? You can't punish all for the actions of some. QFT
Photographer
JJ Art
Posts: 1330
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
ei Total Productions wrote:
I am most familiar with the requirements of California because that is where I am based. I do know of some similar laws in other states.
That being said, I am often amazed at how unfamiliar people are with the laws of their own states. I am frequently taken aback but those who view folklore as law and those who see the law as mere folklore. This is one of the reasons that I think that assisting for a couple of years is a requirement of being a good photographer. Most of what I learned as concerns for clients and photographers I learned while assisting.
Photographer
Kincaid Blackwood
Posts: 23492
Los Angeles, California, US
James Shuster wrote:
We've kind of talked about this in the past but lets revisit it.
17yr old (will call them a model just for the heck of it ) Model wants to shoot you set things up but find out afterwards the parents do not support the models modeling, so you get no release.
Now lets say you did not find this out until she/he shows up would you still shoot? ( Me no I would send her home ), so why does MM allow these "Models" on the site. If not careful someone namely the photographer is going to get in trouble with the Law.. Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. I have no issue shooting with under 18 models as long as a parent is present or I have talked with them on the phone and some one 18+ is at the shoot.. Plenty of agency girls under the age of 18. And if you try to suggest that any of their models sign your release, many will either laugh at you or stop sending you models. Or both.
Model
Arianna F
Posts: 78
i love modeling and even underage people can have extreme talent and ambition! i am appalled you would say such a thing. modeling is my dream and i will do whatever it takes to be at the top of my game, and people like you should just keep quiet and let people dream, no matter what age!!!!!
Model
Bailey K
Posts: 762
London, England, United Kingdom
Elizabeth Claret wrote:
Um, because not all of them on this site are trying to be rebellious children? Or maybe they're getting ready for when they're 18 and not required to have a parent. Thank you!
People seem to tar all under age people with the same stinky brush!
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
James Shuster wrote:
... Lets find away to get them off the site and stop wasting everyones time.. Modeling starts at any age
![https://www.adclassix.com/images/53gerberbabyfood.jpg]()
Model
Jennifer Tyler
Posts: 532
Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
why is it a problem if you shoot under 18 models, as long as you don't shoot them nude?
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