Scott_La wrote:
I going to re-edit a lot of my images and would like to know the right workflow. I shoot in RGB and have a problem on how to convert to sRGB. I know you should edit in 16 bit, but where does sRGB conversion come in (what part of the work flow), sorry for sounding stupid, but I just want to get it right the first time around.

Thanks,

Since you mention 16bit, I'll assume that means you are shooting RAW. If you are shooting in RAW format, typically there is no assigned colorspace until you convert the image in a RAW converter. The software settings for your application should determine what colorspace you convert the image to.

M_M_P wrote:

Since you mention 16bit, I'll assume that means you are shooting RAW. If you are shooting in RAW format, typically there is no assigned colorspace until you convert the image in a RAW converter. The software settings for your application should determine what colorspace you convert the image to.

I shoot in RAW, but when I convert from 16bit, the software takes it down to 8 bit. but dont I need to convert it some how to sRGB myself?

Scott_La wrote:
I shoot in RAW, but when I convert from 16bit, the software takes it down to 8 bit. but dont I need to convert it some how to sRGB myself?

In Photoshop:

Edit->Convert to Profile->Destination -? sRGB

then

Image->Mode->8 bit

Scott_La wrote:

I shoot in RAW, but when I convert from 16bit, the software takes it down to 8 bit. but dont I need to convert it some how to sRGB myself?

What software are you using?

Photo Visions wrote:
sRGB is 1 million colors vs Adobe RGB 32 million colors.

I don't get it... Why use sRGB?

Me neither

Photo Visions wrote:
Why would you convert to srgb?  I use Photoshop RGB which gives more colors.

If they are ultimately going to be made into JPGs for display in a web browser they will look better in most browsers as sRGB.

Typically not something that you want to do while you are still working on them in Photoshop.

Xeris - Dwight wrote:

In Photoshop:

Edit->Convert to Profile->Destination -? sRGB

then

Image->Mode->8 bit

I just read some were, that images need to be converted from RGB to  sRGB inorder to up load onto the internet. That is why I am on this forum, to see what the proper workflow. and thanks for all of the input, it sure helps out. I would hate to re-edit a lot of images and find out I did it wrong.

Xeris - Dwight wrote:
Typically I convert to sRGB (from ProPhoto) just prior to saving the image as a JPG.

Why save as a JPEG? Save the image in a non-compressed format for your archives, convert to JPEG only if you need to send out in that format.

M_M_P wrote:

What software are you using?

Photoshop 4, and going to upgrade to CS4. thats why I want to do it the right way when i spend all that time editing.

Scott_La wrote:
I just read some were, that images need to be converted from RGB to  sRGB inorder to up load onto the internet. That is why I am on this forum, to see what the proper workflow. and thanks for all of the input, it sure helps out. I would hate to re-edit a lot of images and find out I did it wrong.

They do not need to be converted to upload, but they will generally look better when displayed in a browser if they are converted to sRGB.

Essential Image wrote:

Why save as a JPEG? Save the image in a non-compressed format for your archives, convert to JPEG only if you need to send out in that format.

Read what the OP is trying to do as to why I suggested that.

Scott_La wrote:

I just read some were, that images need to be converted from RGB to  sRGB inorder to up load onto the internet. That is why I am on this forum, to see what the proper workflow. and thanks for all of the input, it sure helps out. I would hate to re-edit a lot of images and find out I did it wrong.

All my images here are Adobe RGB

Xeris - Dwight wrote:

If they are ultimately going to be made into JPGs for display in a web browser they will look better in most browsers as sRGB.

Typically not something that you want to do while you are still working on them in Photoshop.

I will keep the original RGB file, and like you stated, when i upload to the web, they will need to be in sRGB.

Skydancer wrote:
I only convert to sRGB when saving an image for web.

that is what i want to do, but how do i convert to sRGB, that is my question.

Photo Visions wrote:
sRGB is 1 million colors vs Adobe RGB 32 million colors.

I don't get it... Why use sRGB?

Isn't sRGB 16 million colors (8 bits/pixel)?

When you convert to JPEG to post on the web, is the colorspace saved in the file? I think Adobe has a wider gamut for printing, but I don't know if it gets better results in a JPEG on the web.

I'm just trying to understand this color management stuff myself!

Scott_La wrote:
that is what i want to do, but how do i convert to sRGB, that is my question.

In PS, Edit > Convert to Profile... which gives you a dialog box to convert to sRGB.

Also, under Conversion settings:
Engine = Adobe (ACE)
Intent = Relative Colorimetric

And I keep all 3 check boxes checked.

After saving for web, I undo those changes and revert back to my original RGB/PS work file.

RW Photo Art wrote:

Isn't sRGB 16 million colors (8 bits/pixel)?

When you convert to JPEG to post on the web, is the colorspace saved in the file? I think Adobe has a wider gamut for printing, but I don't know if it gets better results in a JPEG on the web.

I'm just trying to understand this color management stuff myself!

Thats what I am trying to figur out. For me, color and light are the most important thing, and I want to get the color management down the best i can (as i am sure we all are). So, are you saying that 8 bit is sRGB?

Scott_La wrote:

that is what i want to do, but how do i convert to sRGB, that is my question.

1. image>mode>8bit
2.Edit>convert to profile then select sRGB

converting to profile is the way to go  do not assign profile

Skydancer wrote:

In PS, Edit > Convert to Profile... which gives you a dialog box to convert to sRGB.

Also, under Conversion settings:
Engine = Adobe (ACE)
Intent = Relative Colorimetric

And I keep all 3 check boxes checked.

After saving for web, I undo those changes and revert back to my original RGB/PS work file.

THANKS! That is what I was looking for. a very big help.

Emmanuel Faure wrote:

1. image>mode>8bit
2.Edit>convert to profile then select sRGB

converting to profile is the way to go  do not assign profile

Emmanuel is correct. Don't assign, convert... as already explained.

Scott_La wrote:
Thats what I am trying to figur out. For me, color and light are the most important thing, and I want to get the color management down the best i can (as i am sure we all are). So, are you saying that 8 bit is sRGB?

sRGB images can be 8 bit or 16 bit.

However, if you are saving in JPG file format they need to have the "mode" (bit depth) in Photoshop set to 8 bit as that is a characteristic of the JPG file format. Other file formats (PSD, JPEG 2000, TIFF, etc.) can support 8 or 16 bit file settings.

Photo Visions wrote:
sRGB is 1 million colors vs Adobe RGB 32 million colors.

I don't get it... Why use sRGB?

As far as I know, they have the same number of colors at the same bit depth. For example, as an 8bit file they both have 256 levels of each R, G, and B for a total of over 16 million colors. They cover different ranges of color, though. Adobe RGB will offer more colorspace, meaning that the difference between one color and another is greater though there are the same number available. If you have a large gamut to cover, Adobe RGB may make more sense. sRGB offers less difference between colors, which works well when you have a smaller gamut needed to be covered. If it were really critical to work in the "better" colorspace, that colorspace would be determined by the intent of the image itself.

Photo Visions wrote:
I just uploaded a new photo set at Adobe RGB

It works fine. Who said you can't upload Adobe RGB photos?

It's in my port at the bottom of page 1 lower left corner.

You can upload them, they just won't display properly in some web browsers. Specifically, most web browsers being used today do not recognize color profiles. By uploading and Adobe RGB image, you are catering to a small few who will see it as intended. For everyone else it will look washed out.

Photo Visions wrote:
I just uploaded a new photo set at Adobe RGB

It works fine. Who said you can't upload Adobe RGB photos?

It's in my port at the bottom of page 1 lower left corner.

I, at least, am not saying that you can't "load" (display?) them.

But the general consensus (and I completely agree with it) is that with the most used browsers out there at this time that sRGB will "display" better looking images than other color profiles like Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.

You can always try it yourself by displaying images of each color profile and comparing them side by side.

Scott_La wrote:
Thats what I am trying to figur out. For me, color and light are the most important thing, and I want to get the color management down the best i can (as i am sure we all are). So, are you saying that 8 bit is sRGB?

Bit depth has nothing to do with color space. Bit depth is how many distinct colors are available within any given colorspace as described by RGB values. The colorspace itself is what determines what those values translate to. A color of R-56 B-78 G-200 exists in both sRGB and Adobe RGB, but they translate to 2 distinctly different colors because each colorspace is like a different scale.

Think of each colorspace as a ruler with 256 increments. sRGB would be a ruler in centimeters while Adobe RGB would be a ruler in inches. The difference between 10cm and 50cm is physically much less than the difference between 10 inches and 50 inches despite the fact that they both are 40 increments different. If you are measuring something large, you may be better served using inches. If you are measuring something small, you are better off using centimeters because there is a finer distinction between one number and another. Each measuring stick has it's use and one is no better than the other without considering the specific task it is applied to.

Here's a good link:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori … GB1998.htm

Photo Visions wrote:
sRGB is 1 million colors vs Adobe RGB 32 million colors.

I don't get it... Why use sRGB?

Because he doesn't have the same misunderstanding of what sRGB and Adobe RGB mean?

They're both RGB colorspaces.

sRGB in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors.

Adobe RGB (1998) in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors--the same amount.

ProPhoto RGB in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors--the same amount.

In 16-bit, they support even more colors--again, the same amount of colors, with each colorspace having the same range in 16-bit as 8-bit, but with much finer granularity between 'adjacent' colors.

What varies between colorspaces is how extreme a color can be and still be captured or handled, and the reality is that most 'normal' scenes will fit within sRGB's gamut.

If the colors in the scene all fit within sRGB, you'll end up with a closer approximation using sRGB than Adobe RGB--though nobody will ever see that difference. And, if my experience is normal, if a scene it's outside sRGB, there's a good chance it's outside Adobe RGB as well, making ProPhoto a better option.

I still use Adobe RGB (1998) for most of my work, with the remainder being a mix of sRGB or ProPhoto.

Kevin_Connery wrote:

Because he doesn't have the same misunderstanding of what sRGB and Adobe RGB mean?

They're both RGB colorspaces.

sRGB in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors.

Adobe RGB (1998) in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors--the same amount.

ProPhoto RGB in 8-bit supports ~16 million colors--the same amount.

In 16-bit, they support even more colors--again, the same amount of colors, with each colorspace having the same range in 16-bit as 8-bit, but with much finer granularity between 'adjacent' colors.

What varies between colorspaces is how extreme a color can be and still be captured or handled, and the reality is that most 'normal' scenes will fit within sRGB's gamut.

If the colors in the scene all fit within sRGB, you'll end up with a closer approximation using sRGB than Adobe RGB--though nobody will ever see that difference. And, if my experience is normal, if a scene it's outside sRGB, there's a good chance it's outside Adobe RGB as well, making ProPhoto a better option.

I still use Adobe RGB (1998) for most of my work, with the remainder being a mix of sRGB or ProPhoto.

Kevin, question: Why do you prefer Adobe RGB over ProPhoto?

Scott_La wrote:
I going to re-edit a lot of my images and would like to know the right workflow. I shoot in RGB and have a problem on how to convert to sRGB. I know you should edit in 16 bit, but where does sRGB conversion come in (what part of the work flow), sorry for sounding stupid, but I just want to get it right the first time around.

If you shoot using JPEG, set the camera to the colorspace you expect the most critical output will be going to and that the camera supports. That may only be sRGB, or it may be Adobe RGB (1998). For many labs, that's sRGB; for the web, sRGB is the current standard, and probably will be for a while. For press, it may be Adobe RGB.

If you shoot using Raw, convert to the colorspace best suited to the images involved. Usually that's sRGB or ProPhotoRGB, unless you want to establish an Adobe RGB standard workflow.

A very common working process is:

Convert your images in Raw to either 8- or 16-bit using the colorspace of choice.
Do your work on the images.
Save your work in the colorspace you've chosen in the first step.
Convert a copy to the final output colorspace--sRGB for the web, the printer's colorspace if going to print, the colorspace your lab wants, whatever.
Generally converting to 8-bit after that is also recommended, depending on your output.

Scott_La wrote:
that is what i want to do, but how do i convert to sRGB, that is my question.

Image > Convert to Profile > sRGB in older versions;
Edit > Convert to Profile > sRGB in recent versions.

I recommend using ACE as your conversion engine unless you know of a reason to choose something else, and to leave Black Point Compensation ON. Dither might be helpful in 8-bit, but I've never seen a difference when testing. If you're converting to sRGB from Adobe RGB or ProPhoto, the rendering intent is moot, as it's ignored. If you're converting to CMYK, you may want to test Relative Colormetric and Perceptual to see which gives better results on that image.

Photo Visions wrote:
I just uploaded a new photo set at Adobe RGB

It works fine. Who said you can't upload Adobe RGB photos?

It's in my port at the bottom of page 1 lower left corner.

You can certainly upload them--you can upload images in CMYK JPEGs, too--but few browsers today will display them properly.

sRGB and Adobe RGB (1998):


ProPhotoRGB and CMYK (SWOP v2):

(Many browsers won't even display the CMYK file. Some display it incorrectly. A very few display it using the colors it describes.)

From the Photography Forum FAQ

Why do my images look different on the web than they do in Photoshop or Lightroom? They keep coming out flat, off-color, desaturated and/or dull.

Most browsers don’t understand color manaqement. Your images need to be converted to sRGB before uploading to the web.

See the Color on the Web section of the Color Calibration and Management Reference thread for details