Kristina J wrote:
So, they ask £50 deposit plus additional £300 for "copyright"?
Girls, seriously, run from it as fast as you can.
They're just out to get your money.

This.

krizty wrote:
I'm getting signed with them aswel.
Are you signed yet?
I've googled it and found a few people who been on a few jobs and good pay!
Its 50 depoist and for the photoshoot of copy its 300 for your copywrite hun!
And you can pay it monthly or weekly or even full!

Krizty x

As of Oct 1 2010, the law here in the UK governing model agencies is changing. These changes include an outright ban on any upfront fee's including the one above. If you have not signed with, or handed over any to, them as yet, wait till Oct 1 before you consider doing so and ask them about it.

- Phil H - wrote:
As of Oct 1 2010, the law here in the UK governing model agencies is changing. These changes include an outright ban on any upfront fee's including the one above. If you have not signed with, or handed over any to, them as yet, wait till Oct 1 before you consider doing so and ask them about it.

The truly sad bit is that:

1) Those cheated do not know what their rights are or how to exercise them; and

2) Those doing the scamming will continute to do so exactly because of 1) and boosted greatly by the lack of any effective enforcement by any government agency [BERR; the police; trading standards; the lot of them, it seems, just don't want to know]

This would force the person scammed directly into the civil courts, a much more daunting prospect for nearly everyone caught out by these scammers than just forgetting it and moving on.

Studio36

danielle wells wrote:
Hi Danielle,



That’s fine I hope what ever choice you make in life works out for you however your application has been removed as you quite clearly just shown the agency that your incapable of being a professional model as you do not have the correct qualities for example applying to an agency which you think might not be legit? A smart person would do the research necessary before applying; secondly you seem to think that a modelling agency such as Edge models is going to wait around for as if you are the only person on earth who wants to model well you have guessed wrong. Your attitude to life is quite worrying I hope nether the less I hope it all works out for you.


Regards,


Julian Manning

Woah, that is very rude and unprofessional!

This is a useful thread, thanks all. Not that they've sent me an offer, haha, but it's good to know who to look out for and to avoid anyway...

Tamina Cherrybomb wrote:
Woah, that is very rude and unprofessional!

This is a useful thread, thanks all. Not that they've sent me an offer, haha, but it's good to know who to look out for and to avoid anyway...

Nicely spotted,

SiobhanG wrote:
Hi Guys, yes same thing happened to me. Ive been modelling for four years now and got scammed the first time when i was starting out. I went to an agency called Danielbrownestreet, he ripped me off so badly... £400 of my hard earned money and i couldbt even upload the pictures on a social networking site let alone use them for a portfolio. He said there was nothing he could after i had already paid. The pictures were so low quality, no retouched images, low resolution and a cunt that ran off with my money...

anyhow, just applied to edge models and they told me the same bullshit- i need another portfolio- £50 deposit and £300 on the day. I like to feel at ease when im talkin not rushed into forkin out £50 quid over the phone.


Although, the seem to be gettin a lot of work, i just have to keep grafting, now that i have the time.
I didnt bother to sign. Im not fallin for that again.

I used to be with dbs too and he is major rip off merchant.Edge models have asked me the same too, but am already with legit agencies who do not take anything except their cut from paid work.x

Tamina Cherrybomb wrote:
Woah, that is very rude and unprofessional!

And, if read carefully and all the errors in that response are spotted, it seems they could use some help with the English language their own selves. How professional is THAT?

NOT!

Studio36

Becky-Boo wrote:
well i payed the £50 deposit like a mug but im cutting my losses and am dodgeing going down tomorrow after reedin all ur comments also i reserched this.

IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE

WHEN - EXACTLY - did you pay them the £50?

On 1 October 2010 the law changed and in theory you have 30 days in which to cancel any agreement with them completely, and entirely by your own decision whether they like it or not, AND, demand any money paid be returned to you.

You need to act fast [within the time limit]; and you need to do it in writing.

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:

IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE

WHEN - EXACTLY - did you pay them the £50?

On 1 October 2010 the law changed and in theory you have 30 days in which to cancel any agreement with them completely, and entirely by your own decision whether they like it or not, AND, demand any money paid be returned to you.

You need to act fast [within the time limit]; and you need to do it in writing.

Studio36

Hello there,

I also was had just secure my deposit of £50.00 only yesterday (Tuesday) for a shoot on (Sunday) which I have just cancelled after reading all this, but also I was going to cancel of my own accord as when things were explained to, it was that my photos were not of their standards and clients standards, so they will cover a shoot for a port which they will then use the photos to have on their books and the only cost for me would be IF I wanted to have copyrights to the photos which would be off my choice. Only then to find today that if I don’t make any payments for any photos to have my copyrights then that wont use the photos or have me on my books. So I cancelled today in writing cc'ing in the email all the people that I have been in contact with including the RUDE Julian who hanged up on my when I said I wasn’t my deposit back and that he has given me false information. I also said that if you feel so strongly that I will be a good model and my photos that I happily supply are not good enough to use, then do the shoot and can deduct the copyrights payment from the jobs you get me seeing as your confident.

He replied that only the top agencies like Storm etc would do that and you would never make their books (like I dont know that already, but the cheek of him) and that they are the only UK agency that take models on with no fees etc, and why I should invest in a port which is worthwhile when I start getting jobs.

So I am now in the process of trying to get my deposit back, I have called my bank and the payment is pending so they can cancel as its not a standing order or debit. So once they have my £50.00 then that's it I cant do nothing! They have what they want MY MONEY!

I know you said there is the new law - 1st October 2010 so is against the law but point being they have already taken my money.

No matter how many emails or calls I make, they won’t give it back,

Jordan Reynolds wrote:
OMG!I just paid the 50 quid to them and then read this!I phoned them back after they had organised a shoot with none other than skylite studios and questioned them on all this!They said that they reccomend a studio to go to (they said my photos i have on here were not good enough surprise surprise) and said they would inform the model agency body or something like that about me!They didnt give any options as to which any photographers or studios can be used and said that the 50 quid goes to the studio and not to them as the agency....but them as the agency took the money.This Julian Manning asked why i wanted my deposit back and gave them the reasons and he hung up!Please to anyone considering this 'agency' (and i mean that loosely) do not go with them!

And did you get your £50.00 after that call????

Abbey D wrote:
I know you said there is the new law - 1st October 2010 so is against the law but point being they have already taken my money.

No matter how many emails or calls I make, they won’t give it back,

My guess is that they are delaying until your right to cancel and obtain a refund time runs out... or that you just give up and go away... but I would also guess, without even looking, that they are in serious breach of the relevant regulations in one, or more, other ways. Your individual issues are only going to be the tip of the iceberg.

FOR THOSE OF YOU IN THE UK HAVING TROUBLE WITH THIS OUTFIT - - - THAT IS, CANCELLING YOUR AGREEMENTS [AND EXERCISING YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO WITHIN 30 DAYS] AND GETTING REFUNDS [OF MONEY COLLECTED BY THEM IN ADVANCE - FOR ANYTHING]

DO NOT DELAY

IMMEDIATELY MAKE CONTACT WITH: the Employment Agency Standards inspectorate [EAS] [part of the Department of Business Innovation and Skills] who regulate this sector as to compliance with the law and regulations

see: http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/employment-matters/eas

Pay and Work Rights Helpline

If you have a question or want to make a complaint about an employment agency, you should contact the Pay and Work Rights Helpline:

    * fill in the Pay and Work Rights Enquiry Form on Directgov
https://payandworkrights.direct.gov.uk/

or for information and assistance
    * call the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:

My guess is that they are delaying until your right to cancel and obtain a refund time runs out... or that you just give up and go away... but I would also guess, without even looking, that they are in serious breach of the relevant regulations in one, or more, other ways. Your individual issues are only going to be the tip of the iceberg.

FOR THOSE OF YOU IN THE UK HAVING TROUBLE WITH THIS OUTFIT - - - THAT IS, CANCELLING YOUR AGREEMENTS [AND EXERCISING YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO WITHIN 30 DAYS] AND GETTING REFUNDS [OF MONEY COLLECTED BY THEM IN ADVANCE - FOR ANYTHING]

DO NOT DELAY

IMMEDIATELY MAKE CONTACT WITH: the Employment Agency Standards inspectorate [EAS] [part of the Department of Business Innovation and Skills] who regulate this sector as to compliance with the law and regulations

see: http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/employment-matters/eas

Pay and Work Rights Helpline

If you have a question or want to make a complaint about an employment agency, you should contact the Pay and Work Rights Helpline:

    * fill in the Pay and Work Rights Enquiry Form on Directgov
https://payandworkrights.direct.gov.uk/

or for information and assistance
    * call the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368

Studio36

Thank you :-)

studio36uk wrote:

My guess is that they are delaying until your right to cancel and obtain a refund time runs out... or that you just give up and go away... but I would also guess, without even looking, that they are in serious breach of the relevant regulations in one, or more, other ways. Your individual issues are only going to be the tip of the iceberg.

FOR THOSE OF YOU IN THE UK HAVING TROUBLE WITH THIS OUTFIT - - - THAT IS, CANCELLING YOUR AGREEMENTS [AND EXERCISING YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO WITHIN 30 DAYS] AND GETTING REFUNDS [OF MONEY COLLECTED BY THEM IN ADVANCE - FOR ANYTHING]

DO NOT DELAY

IMMEDIATELY MAKE CONTACT WITH: the Employment Agency Standards inspectorate [EAS] [part of the Department of Business Innovation and Skills] who regulate this sector as to compliance with the law and regulations

see: http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/employment-matters/eas

Pay and Work Rights Helpline

If you have a question or want to make a complaint about an employment agency, you should contact the Pay and Work Rights Helpline:

    * fill in the Pay and Work Rights Enquiry Form on Directgov
https://payandworkrights.direct.gov.uk/

or for information and assistance
    * call the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368

Studio36

This guy has never failed to be extremely helpful in this and many other matters and we UK MMers are fortunate to have him as a member of the community. You are appreciated. Thanks and have a great 2011.

Abbey D wrote:

Thank you :-)

In the meantime,


Early this afternoon before discovering this thread I sent the following email to "Sarah Bishop", the director as well as CC'ing others into the email who have been in contact with me regarding this shoot.


Dear Sarah and Pauline,


After carefully consideration with my opportunity with joining your agency, I would like to confirm that I am declining this opportunity due to the following information that been communicated to me today and the rude conversation I had with Julian Manning.

I was very happy to attend the studio on this Sunday coming for my shoot after speaking and liaising with Julian, who confirmed that yes the photos will be used for the agency and at my own choice, I can choose to get copyrights for the photos at my expense, which I was happy with if wanting to proceed.

I received an email from Pauline today (below) confirming the process of the shoot and also the fact that I would have pay for copyrights of the photos etc which from the email it confirms to my understanding that there is not a choice of preparing to pay for copyrights which I originally thought was my choice.


So I had a better understanding of things I decided to call and speak with Pauline myself, but unfortunately Pauline was not available and ended up speaking to Mick who took my call.

Mick confirmed on the phone that yes I would have to pay for copyrights of the photos and if I don’t then the agency will not be able use any of the photos. I confirmed that I don’t want to be put into a financial position that I am not comfortable with as from speaking with Julian he confirmed that it’s not something I have to do but if I would like to then I can pay in instalments.
Mick then confirmed that there is no point doing instalments if you can’t afford as one payment as I still won’t have full copyrights and clients can still use the images, which will result in the model and agency not making any money. So he said if that’s the case maybe its best I don’t come to the shoot if unable to pay upfront. I asked for Mick’s full name and he said that it’s just Mick as he is the only one by that name that works there..         

I called Julian back confirming what information Mick had confirmed to me which Julian confirmed in not correct and re-explained all and the fact that if I paid upfront or instalments I will still have full COPYRIGHTS and no financial pressure but also if I don’t want to pay for copyrights then is my choice but the agency will still use the photos. I left the conversation as that and said nothing further.
After thinking about it all and the confliction of information that I have been told despite Julian and Mick working for the same company I decided that on this occasion I will cancel my shoot that I booked yesterday as I am OVER my 4 days notice and require my refund of deposit. I called Julian to confirm this who very aggressively asked why which I explained again and also the fact that I don’t want to feel I have to pay for anything for the agency to represent me which Mick had confirmed is the case. He then rudely went on to say that he was going to report me for wasting agency time, when in fact all I did was ask a simple question regarding an email that was sent  from Pauline and wanted further details on the process, only to find two people telling me two different things.

A model should be 100% aware of all process and any payments required and that is not wasting time.   

Sarah I have bought this to your attention as you seem the best person to take this to as also the fact that 2 individuals who are representing you and new models that you have interest in are being extremely rude to potential new models and giving wrong information.

I would like to formally in writing confirm that I would like to cancel my shoot with Modelling extra’s, who I have cc in this email that was scheduled in for Sunday 9th January 2011 ,11am. A full refund of £50.00 should be processed as the shoot was booked yesterday and is not possible to give any more notice than today.

I hope to hear from you soon,






I then received the following email from Sarah, which she sent just to me and did not include the other recipients that I originally had sent the email to;




Hi,



Thank you for your feedback and having conversed with my colleague Mike and indeed Julian from Modelling Extras, please find my feedback below;

I am not quite getting your comments here as the English used is not very easy to translate. Are you saying your declining due to the chat you had with Julian and/or the information you had communicated to you today?   

Again, I’m sorry to say that your remarks are not very eloquent but from what I’ve gathered, here are my comments. In my initial email to you Abbey BEFORE you even spoke to Julian which I sent on 04.0.11, I clearly stated that it would be up to you to pay for your own images [see below for an abstract of that email which I presume you read fully] did I not? So this entire confusion of copyright and non-copyright is neither here nor there. It is either you can afford to pay for your own images or you cannot. It does not make sense you alluding to being happy to pay for your images but not copyright or vice versa Abbey and I say all this with the greatest of respect. My email also stated that if you were not sure, simply leave it there and seek another agency did I not as we do not force model applicants we like to embark down a road they are unsure of!         

Like any reputable agency, we do not charge any fees preferring instead to make our money ONLY when we secure work for our models. Our commission is 20% but the only thing we ask of any new model we like is they have professional fashion images which they have to fund although we do try and help in certain areas.       

So, if you wish to be taken seriously as a full and proper fashion, catalogue, commercial (and others) model whether full or part time, you will need to get images that showcase you properly. Ultimately, we need high quality first rate professional pictures if we’re to do a good job of representing you and helping you earn money and whilst you clearly have a huge affinity to the camera, you will need a proper set of high quality fashion geared professional colour and airbrushed images to bring out the best in you for our clients. In funding your own portfolio, you’ll ultimately own the copyright to the images and thus the income that stems from them.


Correct but you’ve by and large contradicted yourself here in that if Julian stated that you could pay in instalments (meaning for the images and thus eventual copyright upon completion of payment) and you were happy with that, then it does not make any sense when you then proceed to state that you are not happy to pay for the copyright??? A bit like someone saying they are more than happy to pay for a car albeit in instalments but when told they are also paying for the logbook ownership of the said vehicle, they then raise objections even though the two go hand in hand meaning that one cannot happen without the other!!!         

This is in fact not true as the conversation was recorded Abbey. What Mike (not Mick) told you was that you could pay in instalments but until you complete payment, the agency would not be able to use the images to find you work as you would not have owned the copyright of the images outright. He also stated (when you said that this is not what you were told by Julian) that if you were not sure, you may wish to leave it altogether which is consistent with the agency’s policy as regards new model applicants we like

What is this financial pressure issue all about? If one is paying in instalments which you are perfectly entitled to do, where is the financial pressure you keep alluding to? I would have thought that this would only arise if you were informed that you would have to pay everything upfront which is hardly the case? In life, if you have NOT fully paid for something, you cannot claim full ownership and thus copyright Abbey. This is a basic tenet of law and I would have thought that it goes without saying!         

I beg to differ Abbey. An applicant to anything (you are not quite a model yet I hate to tell you) needs to apply common sense, rationale thinking and logic to their thinking which you clearly have not done. What you’ve done is try and rise above your station in that you are trying to be intelligent and adroit at modelling yet clearly know very little about how it works. Also, you clearly do not understand the basic elements of copyright but rather than simply ask questions and get educated on it, you have chosen to come across as if you do understand it and sadly looked inept in the process. Lastly, you should simply be honest above all else in that it is evident what your key problem is. You simply have not got the money to afford the images [although I would never have guessed as you come across as being well-heeled in your images but looks can be deceptive I guess] you or any would-be model needs to be a model and all this about copyright, miscommunication, financial pressures, etc. are simply smokescreens to disguise the fact you are simply a model dreamer Abbey – nothing more nothing less! You would have come out better and more dignified by simply stating that money is tight for you at the moment and asking if you could get the images (from the studio) and pay for them as you earn from the agency. Then, we would have seen if and how we would help! A basic lesson of everyday life Abbey, if you want something but cannot afford to get it, simply wait until you can and if you can’t, simply go for an alternative be it higher education, modelling by way of a modelling CV, a dream handbag or even a car!             


Pardon some of my remarks above Abbey but as you have been dishonest and risen above your station, I felt it my professional duty to bring you into the real world so you carry yourself with much better dignity and decorum in the future and not to mention wasting anyone’s valuable time in the process! Only Julian can process your refund as you are fully aware you did NOT pay us a penny unless you have proof to the contrary. Enjoy your and best regards.     



Yep THAT IS WHAT SHE SENT



I then sent my own separate email to Julian seeing as he is the one that I liaised with to book the shoot, I emailed;



Julian,





As I confirmed over the phone, before you hang up whilst in the middle of having a conversation with you, I confirmed that I was cancelling my photoshoot which I am also doing in writing.



I booked my shoot for Sunday 9th January 2011 which I booked with you on Tuesday 4th January 2011.



Due to this and given 4 days notice, I am entitled to my £50.00 refund that you have debited from my card in which I would like for you to refund back onto this card.



If I don’t see any process of payment being refunded within the next 14 days I will be forced to take further action on this matter





Thank you



He then replies with;



If you read your shoot information email It clearly states that you would need to cancel within 4 working days of your shoot date I’ve taken the time out to copy some of this text which is written below.


Lastly, please remember that an entire and superb studio has been arranged for you so if you wish to grab this modelling opportunity with both hands, it is essential you attend as the agency only takes you as seriously as you take yourself. The deposit is lost if you Fail to show up. It is also lost if you either Cancel or Reschedule within 4 working days of your shoot as the people at the studio have very busy schedules which they cannot afford to be messed around with.


As far as I’m aware you haven’t cancelled within 4 working days please feel free to learn the terminology of working days before stating that you have cancelled within 5 days.



Kind Regards,


Julian Manning 

Model Placing Executive

Modelling Extras Placing Agency

New Models and Extras   




WHAT UTTER BULLS**T

So annoyed right now,

Abbey D wrote:
In funding your own portfolio, you’ll ultimately own the copyright to the images and thus the income that stems from them.

THIS is bullshit of the first order.

Abbey D wrote:
Correct but you’ve by and large contradicted yourself here in that if Julian stated that you could pay in instalments (meaning for the images and thus eventual copyright upon completion of payment) and you were happy with that, then it does not make any sense when you then proceed to state that you are not happy to pay for the copyright??? A bit like someone saying they are more than happy to pay for a car albeit in instalments but when told they are also paying for the logbook ownership of the said vehicle, they then raise objections even though the two go hand in hand meaning that one cannot happen without the other!!!

There is NO REASON, absolutely NONE AT ALL that a model needs to own the copyright.

More

Abbey D wrote:
Only Julian can process your refund as you are fully aware you did NOT pay us a penny unless you have proof to the contrary. Enjoy your and best regards.

WHO set up the photography? WHOSE name is on the agreement? WHO actually collected the money from you? According to you they did!

Just BTW who is this "studio" and "photographer" they want to send you to? Presumably you have a name and address?

Do you even have an address, a real one not some storefront, or accommodation address [mail drop] or PO box number, for the "agency"?

And if you don't go through with the deal they are going to "report you" - to whom EXACTLY? [Sounds like a "threat" to me]

Studio36

Aoxomedia wrote:
This guy has never failed to be extremely helpful in this and many other matters and we UK MMers are fortunate to have him as a member of the community. You are appreciated. Thanks and have a great 2011.

(Referring to Studio36uk)

+1

Julian Manning did who apparently works for Models Extra, Sarah from Edge Models told me to contact him to arrange the shoot as they work with them for producing their models ports. But I personally think they are all working for Edge models as their email signatory says the same thing and not too different companies at all. The only stage where it IS two different companies is between the agency and the studio.
The studio is;


Skylite Studios   
Europa House
54 Great Marlborough Street
LONDON,
W1F 7JU
020 7494 9933


I have tried to contact them also, to ensure that they are aware that I had cancelled my shoot with Julian but they are not answering their phones and the mailbox is full.



The agency is,

2nd Floor 145-157
St John Street
London
EC1V 4PY
T: + 44 (0) 845 519 2336

I emailed both Julian and Sarah after Julian said that I have lost my deposit, confirming all what you had mentioned about the new law and they are best to refund my deposit otherwise I will be seeking legal action and have 14 days to act on this process. This was advised to me from the complaints officer from DirectGov, who are actively investigating. I think they are generally under investigation and are aware of them breeching the UK Law of EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES ACT 1973

So ladies don’t anywhere near Edge Models!!!!!