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Zivity - Please Essplain?
OK, so I see it mentioned a lot on here and I go to check it out and I see sets of images of different females stripping in different settings. I'll preface my comments by saying my visit was brief but it left me saying, "Umm, ok, another model doing a striptease...how very innovative ." Is that what the site is? Just another venue for females to post scantily-clad images to get attention and call it modeling? This is what photographers mean when they advertise they're shooting Zivity sets? From what I gather, people vote on the images or models they like and thoe models build a fanbase. Are the images for sale? Is there any financial reward for the models? What is the motivation? To my untrained eye, it looks like the old "Hot or Not" site with a Like button. What am I missing? Feb 04 13 12:08 pm Link Think "Suicide Girls without the shit contracts." LOL Studio36 Feb 04 13 12:17 pm Link Feb 04 13 12:21 pm Link 
Photographer Posts: 302 MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica Actually I have seen a few very talented and creative photographers on this site, mostly it seems from Europe and parts of Asia. Their work is brilliant and makes me want to be better. And I have seen some very expressive models with amazing concepts. It is up to the viewer to determine what they see. I am definitely not bored yet. Feb 04 13 12:28 pm Link The original concept seemed to be that there would be standards in terms of quality for photosets, but that quickly went by the wayside. The approval process used to require a level of quality, where now everything seems to get "approved". It did not take long before what started as photos you could have labeled "editorial" morphed into strip teases that clearly didn't take more than 5 minutes to shoot. There are some quality images on Zivity, but they are now few and far between. You can still choose to produce quality, intellectual work for Zivity, but you can be sure that there will be little reward for doing so since the average voter (which is what generates the very modest income for models/photographers) apparently just wants to see nudes without having to think much. Feb 04 13 12:30 pm Link curiosa des yeux wrote: So the original concept was to include any photography/content...Submitters soon realized the only content that received any attention were the amateur striptease-style shoots and now that's basically all there is? OK, that makes sense in that the demand formed the content. Feb 04 13 12:41 pm Link Zivity is a community in a lot of ways. Fans/subscribers and artists (models and photographers) all have walls (like FB) and can receive and send messages. Fans (or artists) can create contests with specific guidelines like themes, or even just things they want to see in the set (balloons, water, etc), and then there is a cash prize. The other part of the site is the voting. Subscribers/fans vote on sets they like. Each vote costs $1, and a portion of that goes to the model, the photographer, and then to Zivity. The fans do not have to vote to see the sets, but a lot of us have a nice fanbase of awesome fans who like to support what we do and so they might vote 5 or 10 or even 20+ times. Some of the really popular girls might even get hundreds or thousands of votes from a single fan. The part you are not seeing is the interaction from models to fans as much of it is done via PM or e-mail. I send my fans holiday cards and fan packages (usually prints and hand-embellished thank you cards) for high votes, some of my fans send me gifts from my wishlist. As far as content goes... many of the sets are the basic strip tease. Some of the girls are more goth or alt, some are very girl next door, I have seen some cosplay and pin-up, and I shoot mostly art nudes or belly dance/Eastern/cultural inspired stuff or sensual lingerie with the occasional glamour thrown in for fun. I do a lot of self shot sets so my fans have a lot of say in what I do, as I do I, although I would love if I were able to shoot more with other photographers too. As a photographer, you may not be impressed in general, although there are some really, really good sets with great styling and photography on Zivity. But as a photographer shooting for the site you would be there to get your work out there and hopefully get votes. The biggest thing that sets Zivity apart for me from a photographer/model standpoint is that they do not take copyright or exclusive rights to your photos. And they are very okay with you selling prints of the photos and so on. Zivity staff is really very supportive of the artists. And finally, some numbers for you: I made about $2,400 last year, most of it from my self portraits. Not a full time job by any means, but definitely worth my time and effort, I think. Feb 04 13 12:51 pm Link Zivity is a fun, tight-knit community that loves artistry, confidence, beauty, and tasteful sexuality. I think it's very different from other subscription model sites in that it recognizes the collaborative efforts between the model and photographer by both treating and compensating both fairly. It also seems to be a step above in artistic terms. Photo sets earn money through member votes and the money is split between the model, the photographer and Zivity... with the model earning the largest percentage. Of course, no compensation can be guaranteed but a good photo set can earn a fair amount of money. Since Zivity is about collaboration, the way they work is the photographer must post images, but they can't be published until the model approves them. This process also protects you from having images posted that you don’t like. The only exception to this process is for models who self-shoot (Zivity keeps the photographer's share, so there is not a financial incentive for self shooting). I point interested models to these other forum threads... https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=849737 https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=840534 Zivity does not require nudity. But the sexier the images the more likely a set will be profitable. While image sets with nudity typically get more votes, you will read in the threads above that there have been non-nude models in the top 10 on occasion. This model has received a thousand votes ($450 commission) in 8 sets with only implied nudes: http://www.zivity.com/photosets/artist/Emalou46 This set got 589 votes ($265) showing only cleavage and leg: http://www.zivity.com/models/Built4Sin/photosets/3 My Zivity shoots are speculative for both me and the model. We get paid by fans online ... thus providing us the incentive to create the best possible sets that are the most attractive to those voters. Zivity can be a pretty easy way for a new model to get published and start making money. I never pretend that a model can get rich off of Zivity, but it is extra money and can be lots of fun. Feb 04 13 01:19 pm Link From an artist standpoint, what's great about Zivity is that (like mentioned before) the copyright is not bought by Zivity, and you have complete creative freedom. There are very few restrictions on content, so you get a bit more variety than on some other sites. A model gets out of Zivity what she puts in to it. A model that does not network herself will not make money. There are some sub-par sets on Zivity, but this has been stepped up a bit recently due to a change in the way content is divided up. A lot of the content is still a "strip-tease" type of set, but on a site that encourages nudity, what else do you expect? There are some sets that are just full nude, some that don't include nudity at all, and some that revolve around a more complicated story and still involve a strip tease. As said before, Zivity isn't a full time job by any means, but it's a nice way to make some money off of a set as you try to sell prints or even sell the digital set elsewhere. Votes are definitely not a "hot or not" system. They are fans supporting the artists they love. There are plenty of popular models on Zivity that do not fit the generic scope of "hot." Feb 04 13 01:34 pm Link What she said ^^^  Feb 04 13 01:55 pm Link It is not a scam but it is not a very good deal for photographers. Feb 04 13 02:11 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Originally, not ANY content would be accepted, they were selective about the content based on quality. That has changed and now there does not seem to be any selection process. Feb 04 13 02:57 pm Link i find some of the work on zivity brilliant. the top people can make thousands from the votes. and fans buy the girls things from their amazon wishlists. think of it like a virtual strip club. of course i think the truth is some of the girls are more into other girls ... the thing is you can work hard on a set and get zero votes which is kind of disappointing but then again you don't make any money here either. i like being able to post a whole set, not just a couple images. sometimes we try to tell a little story. i've enjoyed being on zivity although it can be hard to get the attention of the fans. in some ways zivity is better for the model than the photographer (except for the top dogs). Feb 04 13 03:20 pm Link they do reject content. they sent out a note recently about too many wrinkled backgrounds. and some goes "straight to profile" rather than being featured. it's a small company so the decision-making is in the hands of a couple people as i understand it. curiosa des yeux wrote: Feb 04 13 03:21 pm Link i've done clothed sets that have gotten more votes than nude ones. but in general i like shooting for zivity because there's an assumption it will be a strip-tease so i don't have to worry about "will she, won't she". usually she will. some are 'easy on the hooha big boy" lol OkiDokiOkami wrote: Feb 04 13 03:30 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Plainly www.ess.net? Feb 04 13 03:31 pm Link with your votes you are buying attention from the model. think virtual strip club. the fans and models get into communication, the fans buy things for the models, the models make the fans little thank you videos and so on. some of the models have webcams and websites and there's a logical tie-in. it can get competitive between models. some nasty catfights have broken out and a few models have been kicked off. there can also be a lot of whining about not getting any votes. in some ways maybe zivity is more exciting for the models and the fans. the photographer is kind of like the DJ at the club standing back in the corner. self-shot sets are allowed and many models are becoming photographers and shooting each other. but i've learned a lot about photography from the site, especially from the work of the female shooters. i think it has really helped my boudoir work. Michael Pandolfo wrote: Feb 04 13 03:36 pm Link I forgot to hit the licensing... Zivity takes a non-exclusive license for the sets, so you are able to use them anywhere else. Zivity also has fairly tight standards that keep out explicit images. Prizes are another way of making money... most have a specific theme. Some prizes are created by Zivity (new model, best set), others by fans and still others by external entities like Playboy (forget who the others have been recently). The dollar amount of a prize varies... the occasional ones by Playboy include being featured over there. Winners can be the most votes or selected by the creator. It's also now possible for a non-subscriber to unlock a set with a micropayment of a few dollars. I've found it quite interesting the number of Suicide Girls who are migrating or expanding over to Zivity. Feb 04 13 05:03 pm Link GPS Studio Services wrote: +1 Feb 04 13 05:11 pm Link Anyone care to point out a site that IS favorable to photographers? Certainly not SG! Zivity's 30% payout to photographers is more than the site itself takes. Remember the license is not exclusive, so a photographer is free to use the images elsewhere. Feb 04 13 05:24 pm Link kind of like suicide girls lite. seems like every other model is an SG girl. the playboy types don't seem to get as many votes as the others. Carden Photography wrote: Feb 04 13 05:27 pm Link yeah i kind of have the sense that it's a labor of love for the owners more so than a meal ticket. Carden Photography wrote: Feb 04 13 05:27 pm Link twoharts wrote: Yes, the owners already made their fortune in Silicon Valley... they are successful geeks. Feb 04 13 05:34 pm Link curiosa des yeux wrote: They may have relaxed their set approval, but every set doesn't get the same kind of advertising. The front page is only for featured sets that the owners put up. Then there's a page for editor picks, then noteworthy sets, then all sets. Some of its genuine quality, some of its favoritism. Either way, if you shoot crappy sets they won't get sitewide attention so you'd better have a fantastic fanbase on your own. Feb 04 13 05:39 pm Link Carden Photography wrote: Zivity essentially dictates the deal between the photographer and the model. Rather than paying out a specific amount for sets, Zivity decides how much the photographer is to receive and how much the model does (giving the lion's share to the model). Feb 04 13 06:38 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Think paysite where all content creation and marketing is crowd sourced. Feb 04 13 06:57 pm Link Carden Photography wrote: Not really, the company split a few years back, the bulk went a new direction, the founder of Zivity got to keep Zivity and two or three employee's, they did not keep any of the funding or startup capital that was acquired. So no, they did not make there fortune, and are operating on only funds gained from membership and vote purchases (and vote purchases are a wash due to the payouts and processing expenses). Feb 04 13 07:04 pm Link studio36uk wrote: Damn!! Beat me to it!!:-)))))))) Feb 04 13 07:10 pm Link The concept seems like e-harmony for Sugar Daddys ?? Feb 04 13 07:13 pm Link I will say it sucks being a photographer on Zivity with models who won't lift a finger to help promote their sets. It's hard to build a fan base as a photographer. Feb 04 13 07:14 pm Link One thing I would like to point out, especially given that the llama vs. photographer percentage thing always comes up is that the llama is the one that does most of the promotions and interactions on the site (or at least the most effective ones). The llamas who you see on the top generally spend quite a bit of time on the site a day (at least a couple hours) and are constantly tending to their fan base. When I was in the top 10, I was on Zivity at least 2 hours a day posting on walls, thanking fans, promoting sets, sending out messages, and so on. And whether any of us like it or not, the fans are generally there to see and talk to the llamas. I also usually advise photographers to simply shoot Zivity sets in addition to their own project. Often when I do self portrait sessions, if I get a shot I just love, I save that one for me and do not necessarily put it in the set. As a photographer maybe plan in an extra half hour or so for the Zivity set using whatever set up you already have. And I will be one of the first to say it is not for everyone. But I also feel that just because something is not right for you, it does not really mean you should knock it for others who might be quite happy with it ^_^ Feb 04 13 07:22 pm Link To reiterate here since some people seem to be ignoring the artists that are actually on Zivity and only paying attention to the people who are spitting out the rumors... Voting split: The photographer makes 30%, the model makes 55%, and Zivity makes 15%. Each vote costs the fan $1, and they can vote however many times they wish on however many sets. Zivity making tons of money: Right now Zivity is only really self-sustaining. It's not making millions. With the vote split the way it is, Zivity actually LOSES money on votes. The voting split is about to be changed to photographer 30%, model 45-50%, and Zivity 20-25%. The artists already published on the site are going to be grandfathered in to the current rate. Photographers get the short end of the stick: There are a few very well known photographers on Zivity that don't even agree with this because they work the site to their advantage. Prizes are paid out to photographers, and the models don't get any of the prize money unless the photographer gives it to them. Photographers get to keep the copyright on the images. Photographers can still sell prints or do anything with that set their little heart desires, short of selling the copyright. Photographers may put in editing time, but I assure you that the models spend much more time networking on the site than the photographers do with editing. Don't JUST shoot for Zivity. Shoot a set you can post on Zivity and use for other personal projects/portfolios as well. Zivity isn't a way to make tons of money, but it's a nice way to make a bit of money back on a set to cover props, wardrobe, etc. Sub-par content: There IS some sub-par content on Zivity, but if you don't go looking for it, you don't have to look at it. The "Editor's Pick" section is for the best content on Zivity. Staff is working on upping content, one way being they are sending out critiques on sets that do not make the "Editor's Pick" section. It's like Suicide Girls: This is partially true, partially not true. SG requires nudity. SG also has a much lower subscription price that allows for a lot more random trash to join and message/harass the models. Zivity is very quick to respond to instances where this does happen. SG has their exclusivity contract, Zivity requires no exclusivity at all. On SG they BUY your set, on Zivity you keep your copyright. People who get nude get more votes: I can't say whether this is really true or not, but I know there are popular models that do not shoot full nudity or any nudity at all. There have been popular sets that have been fully-clothed. What people get out of voting: People get interaction from the model for voting, and they sometimes always receive "incentives" which are extra photos, sometimes a print, sometimes a video that goes with the set, whatever. These incentives DO get reported for not following Zivity content as there are many fans on the site that don't want to see that type of content from Zivity models. My top two fans don't even care to have my incentives sometimes. Anywho, if anybody has any questions or concerns, feel free to message me privately as well. I have been on Zivity for over a year and I am in the top 5 models on the site. I've worked with a few of the top photographers as well. Feb 04 13 08:02 pm Link so far i've made roughly $350 (on 22 sets) and have re-invested all of that back into Zivity in terms of votes and sponsoring a couple contests. most of my money came from one model who was very popular before her personal life shut down her modeling (at least temporarily). seems like there are two ways to make more than snack money: * snag a popular model and do a good job with her * do a ton of sets (and there are some guys who do both and they are the top photographers) there are lots of sets that don't get any votes (some of them quite good IMHO) so when i'm extending a trial to someone i tell them they can get a free membership in the club if they post a set and that any votes they get should be considered a bonus. i'd love to have money to be a fan and then i could influence things by voting for the models/sets i prefer. but i think the main thing is that i like to post sets vs. just an image or two. and zivity gives me that opportunity. and it also gives me access to models who might not be shooting for mayhem. plus i learn from seeing what other shooters are doing. OkiDokiOkami wrote: Feb 05 13 09:09 am Link twoharts wrote: OK, this makes more sense. My first thought was "who would pay to see this content when the internet is loaded..." Feb 05 13 09:21 am Link Dekilah wrote: That is true, and I am not criticizing those photographers who want to shoot for it. From my perspective, the numbers don't work out -vs- the value of my time. I think for someone starting out, they will do it to not leave money on the table. For me, I would rather pay a model out of my pocket and then re-license the images any way I want on whatever terms that I want. Feb 05 13 09:30 am Link i think it's about getting affection from the models. they might not be into you personally if they met you (some of them are bi or lesbian anyway) but courtesy of the internet there can be this bond that gets created where they are appreciative of your support. some fans are spending many thousands of dollars on the models. and the good news is that the photographer gets 30% of that love. and photographers sometimes get attention from the models as well. there are several models i chat with and i don't even have many votes to spend on them. it's just part of being in the community. Michael Pandolfo wrote: Feb 05 13 09:58 am Link except for the top models i doubt they're making very much per hour by the time you account for everything but i have seen posts saying it helped cover their medical expenses for the month. there are girls who shoot with a photographer every week even if they don't get any votes. they must just enjoy the process (or the photographer!) or have some other use for the photos. sometimes i think it's moms loving an opportunity to get dolled up and out of the house (many of our model shoots are like that come to think of it). GPS Studio Services wrote: Feb 05 13 10:12 am Link GPS Studio Services wrote: I can definitely see that. As someone who shoots photos of myself I find I like the freedom to do whatever I want with those photos without having to worry if I am allowed to post them in a certain place or submit them to a contest, or even worrying that someone will steal them and then I have to run around notifying the photographer without being able to do much myself. With my own images I can allow artists to use them as inspiration, etc. And actually from a models' perspective, it takes a lot of promotion to turn a Zivity set into money. It really does. I guess if/when a model builds a big enough fan base, she can slack off a little and still do well as long as she catches up, but for most of us the promotions have to be constant and across a wide number of people to really do well (be in the top 10 for example). Feb 05 13 11:03 am Link studio36uk wrote: Plus the pay is only by commission. Feb 05 13 12:15 pm Link I would say Zivity functions in two ways. It is a social/professional network, just like Model Mayhem. It is a publishing platform...like a magazine. When you Subscribe to a magazine, you pay for access to content, but you're also paying an editorial staff to arrange content based on its relevance to their aesthetic interests. In Zivity, an editorial staff does this for you, and they tend to promote a variety of types of work...art nudes, latex/fetish, but mostly alt pinups (the striptease). However, you can publish almost any type of model work on Zivity (including male models on the Zividudes site.) Art. Fashion. Casual. And the the subscribers don't just pay for content: their pay translates into votes, and they get to decide which content makes money. The subscribers have an editorial voice. The quality of sets is determined by BOTH the editorial staff AND the demands of the user base. I think of Zivity as an effective publishing platform--moreso than a lot of print magazines--because let's face it: there just aren't a lot of print magazines which 1) PAY photographers for content 2) DON'T DEMAND first rights or exclusive rights and 3) circulate to thousands or tens of thousands of users and are actively viewed and appreciated. Meanwhile, you also have the ability to auto-generate two mailing lists for marketing: "friends" and "fans." You can use these emailing lists as a marketing resource to promote any project you like. This is why I use Zivity: as a driver for print sales, and for casting for off-Zivity projects. Lastly, while we're talking about editorial standards, I just want to say this: Zivity publishes models of every body type, ethnicity, age (over 19), and ability. I support this, it reflects my philosophy, and it is one of the reasons why I continue to publish there. http://www.zivity.com/users/PorscheJones Feb 10 13 11:35 am Link |
