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umm, don't touch me?
I agree 100% ....it creeps me out if a photographer is to feely touchy and then im not as comfortable and my pictures don't come out as well. tho, i do have a few select photographers that I'm very close with so the help isn't always a bad thing, just my opinnion. Sep 10 05 10:52 am Link I don't touch. Period. A model asked me to make her nipples hard once. I gave her an ice cube from the freezer. Sorry but I don't touch. I value my reputation above cheap thrills. Sep 10 05 12:14 pm Link geez i thought it was typical normal for a photographer to hug on your, touch you, feel you up and show his penis to models..hmm..then i started shooting with a few professionals.. Sep 11 05 07:08 pm Link bobby sargent wrote: Ok new thread... Sep 12 05 12:28 pm Link Monty T. Dog wrote: AWWWWWW Very cute dog!!!! Sep 15 05 08:48 am Link Jacinta Lee wrote: Sep 15 05 08:49 am Link It's better not to touch...or you might become the subject of a thread such as this...... Makes ya think. Sep 15 05 08:54 am Link chapa wrote: See, that's the impression he got when she allowed him to touch her. Sep 15 05 06:59 pm Link Y'know... at my age, it's almost a compliment... All that aside, if Jacinta was uncomfortable with it, it's perfectly okay to be upset about it. The photographer might have been copping a free feel, he might have been caught up in pursuing the shot and was simply oblivious... we'll never know what his intent was. However, she has to shoulder some of the responsibility as well in communicating that it DOES make her uncomfortable to be touched. Does that excuse the photographer? No, but immediate boundaries would have been established that he would have undoubtedly apologized for and been aware of from that time forward. Feces happens. Learn and move on. Now you know where your comfort level is, know how to communicate with the photographer and you'll be sure to establish parameters early so that this never has to happen again. For whatever reason, I don't ever remember being touched by anyone, but it was explained to me a while back by one photographer (who I met but had not shot with) that he was afraid I was going to kick his ass for looking cross-eyed at me. Now where did I get that reputation from?? Sep 15 05 07:26 pm Link Jacinta Lee wrote: He crossed the boundary IMO.....If touching a model is helpful in helping a pose, I ask first. Even then it's gently, not a grope or a sensual rub! Gotta keep it professional! Sep 15 05 07:35 pm Link One-sided view of an incident, so little information. And then. So many conclusions. Sep 15 05 08:01 pm Link Geezus... Everyone is such a politacally correct crybaby now. Sometimes the only way to get it there is to push it. Models do what feels comfortable, but usually the only way to get the right emphasis is to go beyond comfortable to where it feels way too exagerated. And then it looks just right. Sometimes I (GASP!) have to grab a model and push things to where they belong. I've never had a complaint, I've never been accused of any foul play. Truth is, I've got a beautiful girl at home, and I've seen enough asses to not give a damn about the models'. If I push you somewhere, it's because it needed to be where I put it. Nothing more. I'm doing a job, and I like good results... I do what's nessecary to do that. Realize that most photographers have seen a millions asses better than yours, and they'll see a million more before they're done. Most of us just wanna get the job done right, dig? Sep 15 05 08:10 pm Link That reminds me of an incident that maybe I should post now. It should be "reported" right? Girl arrived. Girl: Oooo, I didn't know you are so cute. -> proceeded to give me a bear hug Me: Ok, we are ready to go, the MUA is... -> felt a hand on my shoulder Girl: Alright! -> Went to the MUA 1 minute later Girl: (Pointing at a picture of me in leather on a bike) You have a cute butt! Me: (Felt a pat and a grope on my butt) Err... Girl: (Gave me a big smile of satisfaction) Sexual harassment!!!! Sep 15 05 08:25 pm Link I Worked with a photographer like that. I was doing an Implied shot. He said my hand was too tense on my breast so he grabbed my armed and shook it revealing my breast. he was pretty hands on throughout the shoot.... i should have said something, i did afteward, but he completely took advantage of me starting out into the modeling world. I confronted him about it. and he keeps a professional level even though im extremely bothered by it still. Some photographers like to take advantage of nice people. Im overly nice with photographers from what ive been told and some take advantage and get comfortable and think they can touch, feel or squeeze whatever they want. If you feel unfomfortable in anyway, ask them not to d o it again. If they were professional they'd understand and hold nothing against you. Just be selective with photographers and bring someone with you . be safe!! its key!! especially in this industry.. SARAH-- Sep 16 05 12:42 am Link i agree, its wrong to grab the girls butt. Then again he is not wrong to show her what she is doing or how he wants her to pose. He should have asked to move her letting her know what body part he would be touching then not grabbing her butt, but grabbing her hips and moving her that way. If that had happened then she would have no reason to complaine, and he would not have had all thi being said about him. Just let the man do his job and let HIM know how you not everyone unless asked what it was like working with him by a model or anyone really who is planning on working with him in the near furture. Sep 16 05 12:54 am Link lll wrote: wow that girl makes all models look bad Sep 16 05 01:27 am Link bebewood wrote: ... a n d ... s o ... w h a t ? ... Sep 16 05 01:38 am Link Udo R Photography wrote: well not everyone likes their butt slapped by people who they are not attracted to. Sep 16 05 01:39 am Link bebewood wrote: That is pretty much the fault of the photographers (or GWC's) who don't know anything about human interaction and business. Sep 16 05 01:51 am Link It's funny... I see a lot of people utterly missing the point behind all this (no pun intended). So a simple parallel may be in order: Suppose two people are having sex together. If both are willing, then it's all good (at least, I hope it is). If only one is, then it's rape. The physical act is exactly the same in both cases! That's all there is to it: if model A likes to be physically manipulated, and the photog likes to do that, great. If photog B likes it when people grope and/or molest him/her, more power to them! But if model C feels uncomfortable when photog D moves her around, then the photog is wrong. And it doesn't matter a flying wossname what anyone else thinks _they_ would have felt like if they had been in the room. We don't need any more information: the photog did something (toucheding) that made the model uncomfortable. That is wrong (and frequently technically criminal, by the way). The key here is to recognize there is a spectrum: what is always bad (e.g. rape), what you can usually get away with (copping a feel), and what is acceptable. A number of photogs here have claimed that stuff they usually get away with is therefore acceptable, which is just not true: deliberately touching another person without consent is, technically, assault (in many, maybe most, jurisdictions). The key word there is consent, of course. And being a photographer doesn't make them immune from that! So how do you get consent? The simplest way is just to ask, but one can also read body language, hint, etc... Personally, I find myself keeping a lot of distance between me and my models while shooting, even when they woke up in my bed that morning. Which may seem daft, but I've yet to run into problems from being overly professional in my dealings with people... Malc. Sep 16 05 02:08 am Link WOw, that's horrible. He totally shouldn't have told you. Most professional photographers would ask if they could move you.. Sep 16 05 02:15 am Link John Jebbia wrote: haha.. Sep 16 05 02:21 am Link Doug Swinskey wrote: hahah!!! yes, us models can position our own butts, thank you. Sep 16 05 02:23 am Link Udo R Photography wrote: EXACTLY! What's the big deal? Sep 16 05 03:09 am Link lll wrote: You know... I am reading what you are writing and I think I see where the problem is... Sep 16 05 10:04 am Link I have been known to push an elbow back a bit, push some hair off a shoulder, or turn a girls shoulders just a bit, but in general you are just asking for trouble, especially if it can be construed as an attempt to "grope" the model. come on...this isn't hard to understand. Normally, if I have pose in mind and the girl isn't getting it, I have been known to "demonstrate" it, which always gets a big laugh. They always like the "kick your hip out like this, arch your back a bit like this, and turn your head a bit like this" demonstration. Mark Sep 16 05 10:30 am Link Malcolm Weir wrote: I mostly agree here. The model felt the touch was innappropriate. The photographer may have thought it was fine. None of us are in a position to say. Misunderstandings between people happen all the time. Sep 16 05 11:51 am Link Gunfitr wrote: Based on the discussions: Photographers, I recommend yoga and modern dance lesson. Works like a charm. Sep 16 05 03:54 pm Link Udo R Photography wrote: Udo, I agree. I will shut up now. Sep 16 05 04:00 pm Link I think UDO and MAYANLEE have the right of it. There are two different mindsets for models: fashion runway and commercial/editorial photo shoots. My roots in modeling began with runway fashion shows when I was sixteen. If you do not like your "space" violated or to be "touched" I would advise that you steer CLEAR of runway fashion shows. Because you will be adjusted, touched, stripped, dressed, grazed, pinched, pulled and touched up within 2 minutes BEFORE you hit the runway curtain and charge the runway, only to return backstage to have ALL the above done again inside two minutes by males and females alike. I get tickled thinking about some of the comments and suggestions: "I would kick his ass!", "Scream bloody murder!," "Run!" "Bitch slap him!" "Call the cops!" "Sue his ass!" "Yell...Don't touch me!" And then I think about the dressers, wardrobe, techs, designers, MUAS, stylists and everyone else involved behind the scenes of a fashion show that have and do touch, position clothing and body parts, strip you bare only to have someone else zip up and dress you again like you are their personal Barbie doll without a thought to what body parts are revealed, touched, positioned, groomed... whatever! And what a Kangaroo Court Chaotic Disaster it would be if all the contracted models started screaming, kicking ass, and speed dialing the cops and their lawyers while the seated show angels, patrons, friends, media, and buyers sat in the audience, in total shocked silence, their mouths agape, their eyes bulging, as they waited for the UNKNOWN terror to burst through the curtains to attack them next. And before I get lambasted, I have only had ONE inappropriate touch in the five years I have been modeling and shooting, and he was an elderly (spry 85) show angel who asked to be photographed with "the girls" and he pinched my butt while we were huddled up around him for several photo shots. Every other photographer solo or with a team that I have worked with have ALWAYS been extremely professional..but if the MUA or Stylist or Tech was busy the photgrapher has stepped in to move a stray hair, fix a strap, straighten a line, or whatever is "wrong" or "off" about the shot they are going for. Now they do and have said, "Hold that pose! we need to fix your hair, earring, necklace, gown, swimsuit strap..." etc. etc. and either the photographer or someone with him will make the adjustment so that I nor the photographer lose the lighting, pose, and postioning that is wanted. Besides folks, unless I had a 3-way mirror before me I have NO WAY of knowing OR seeing what is wrong...so it does not bother or ruffle or upset me in the least to be moved or fixed. Now, I must confess, I am an easy-going person, and will tease or joke or talk family or sports if the people involved are familiar to me or come across as convivial, easy-going professionals, but I can also remain serious and focused (though it is difficult to do so and is against my nature) and speak only when necessary if those I am working with are "serious, all business" types. I have never been ambushed or groped or fondled by any photographer I have ever worked with, but then I am careful and choosy about whom I work with. Or it may be that like MayanLee, my direct, professional manner sets its own natural barriers or it could be that through the random conversational gambits they realize that I do NOT mix, overlap, or confuse professional with personal socials. But I HONESTLY believe if you have a such strident serious "do not violate my personal space ever" and "do not ever touch me" policy you should reconsider modeling and/or the fashion industry period. And find something else to do. Failing that, take MAYANLEE'S advice and be choosy, professional, and responsible enough to ALWAYS tell photographers BEFORE the shoot of your policies, to avoid any unpleasantness. Mollie Sep 17 05 01:10 am Link Mollie; You had me laughing out loud a few times... because what you've described is so much from the reality, it was a delight to read your post. Here is a on-topic shot from the Heatherette show last evening (Friday, Sept. 16, 2005)... I am just editing and thought that is curiously on topic.  I am wildly guessing he is adjusting her butt too... LOL Sep 17 05 08:57 am Link LOL@ UDO! Yup....and she looks like she is preparing to scream too!  Mollie Sep 17 05 11:47 am Link I generally touch the models I work with very rarely, and usually only if absolutely necessary for MINOR adjusments of arm or leg position, or possibly a stray wisp of hair. I always tell the model exactly what I am doing and why. Now for my shoot yesterday there were a lot of mosquitoes and I did help the model apply insect repellant, bit that is an extreme case. I also agree that pushing you against a wall, and touching your butt were WAY outta line Sep 17 05 12:22 pm Link Udo, here's the attorney's phone number for the girl! (800) HE-TOUCH That is hilarious... LOL Sep 17 05 04:24 pm Link mollie_lane wrote: Udo R Photography wrote: Sure, Udo, you're allowed to touch models under 2 conditions: Jacinta Lee wrote: See? It's a double-standard and total hypocrisy. Sep 17 05 04:35 pm Link I think sometimes you have to correctly position your model- I always explain and show I rarely touch, but if needed I ask if it ok first- When I got into the fashion side of things I remember hearing from colleagues about how models were treated and many of them did not like being touched after a shoot because of the " many hands "on people during shooting, whether it's a hairstylist on your hair, a stylist changing your wardobe and taping areas to keep them on, or a make up artist covering you body in paint and don't let a designer show up and not like what they see. I think the 2 go hand in hand- however- harassment gives us all a bad name- I always tell the story of a show I did in Europe but it's to long- have fun all ! Sep 17 05 04:54 pm Link I kissed a model once , while on a shoot. Is that wrong?  Model Tiger https://modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=1317 Photo Carl Mariano Sep 17 05 04:56 pm Link I shoot a lot of bondage. The photographer was also the rigger in this case and at one point he had my elbows tied together behind my back, and THEN took it upon himself to unbutton and partially remove my shirt, which made me uncomfortable. If he'd asked first, I'd have had no problem with this as with bondage, you really can't fix the little things. I didn't mind when he shifted my hair from one side to the other, but I thought he was out of line with the shirt business. Someone once said "Moving a piece of a model's hair without asking: acceptable. Moving a piece of a model's pubic hair without asking: not acceptable." Badly paraphrased, but good advice nonetheless. Sep 17 05 06:56 pm Link lll wrote: Thanks... but I thought that number is (800) BAD-TOUCH... Sep 17 05 10:13 pm Link Eric Muss-Barnes wrote: mollie_lane wrote: Udo R Photography wrote: Sure, Udo, you're allowed to touch models under 2 conditions: Eric Eric Eric... Sep 17 05 11:55 pm Link |
