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umm, don't touch me?
One of the great masters once shared this advice with me, "You can't pose a boob or butt cheek with your hand, it obeys physics and flops back into its original position." Since its kind of useless, why risk the lawsuit? I wonder if the same shooter would put his hands on a male model's ass if it was out of position? Sep 06 05 06:33 pm Link Monsante Bey wrote: You know, it's not about mental, physical and emotional scarring. It's not about counseling or trials or even money. Sep 06 05 06:39 pm Link Sara Green wrote: Please stay out of Brazil ... they usually kill paranoids like you ... Sep 06 05 06:52 pm Link Jacinta Lee wrote: Maybe he thought you liked him ...:-) Sep 06 05 06:56 pm Link this is specifically why i use "butt models" for my "butt shots"... its a specialized field, but i never have to position someons ass.... Sep 06 05 06:59 pm Link Jacinta Lee wrote: Babe ... as a woman, how can you still have any doubts in your mind? Sep 06 05 07:01 pm Link Hydra wrote: I bet if she would have said "Hey, don't do that" he would have been really embarrassed and apologized profusely. Simply because he didn't mean it in a sexual way, he just got caught up in the shoot. Notice that's ALL he did. Sep 06 05 07:20 pm Link Louis Braga wrote: Jumping to conclusions and calling someone a pervert for applying presser to get her into a pose is harsh and uncalled for. Touching without asking permission is wrong and touching in an inappropriate manner is a chargeable offense. If she feels violated, press charges. Jacinta Lee wrote: That would be like calling you a sexist for calling Jacinta âbabeâ? instead of her given nameâ¦..howâs that shoe fitting? Sep 06 05 07:20 pm Link Monsante Bey wrote: How do you know he didn't mean it in a sexual way? Or for that matter, that he wasn't using his position to cop a free feel? Sep 06 05 07:29 pm Link Hydra wrote: LOL, this is getting as good as Jerry Springer. Sep 06 05 07:40 pm Link Craig Thomson wrote: When it comes to my family, that's the way it is. Hopefully you feel the same way about yours... Sep 06 05 07:45 pm Link Hydra wrote: What was your point? That you can't control your anger? Sep 06 05 07:50 pm Link Craig Thomson wrote: My point was that the photographer's actions were improper and could have caused big problems and it's just not worth taking stupid risks like that. Sep 06 05 08:08 pm Link Doug Swinskey wrote: I do! It's like this... Sep 06 05 08:26 pm Link So as long as I don't "scar somebody for life," whatever I do is OK? No, I think I'll stay away from offensive words and actions when other more effective means of communication exist. Sep 06 05 09:40 pm Link what do you think? was i being weird, or was he? Take a pill - get over yourself. excuse me? where did that rudeness stem from? Sep 07 05 12:25 am Link Monsante Bey wrote: gee, ta. Sep 07 05 12:33 am Link Better not to touch. And touching where he did was very clearly out of line. The key word is consensual. And no means no. Sep 07 05 01:00 am Link Well, this thread is well past the point of diminishing returns. People just like listening to themselves now. Piling on redundent opinions and "advice." The poster asked a reasonable question (although she could have described it in more detail). She then got some good advice. Then others decided to get a little on the hysterical side - over-interpretting others' posts and wildly extrapolating about the "offending" photographer (and, to some extent the original poster). Eric then makes a post that will bait those less cognitively able (those are my favorites!) and should serve as a message that things have gone too far. Testosterone motivated threats of physical violence occur. Then some others were a little harsh with the original poster, which I suspect was motivated more by over-sensitive reactions in followup posts. Then she reacted defensively (not an unreasonable reaction). Then people continue to add posts that don't really add anything. This sequence happens a lot on MM. Sorry about the rant, but I wish this would change. Sep 07 05 05:25 am Link The photographer should not touch the model in any way. Now there are times when they do need to fix things. The photographer should and must tell the model that there is a problem and see if she can fix the problem. If she cannot then she is either ok with him fixing the problem or she skips it and moves on. Then there are times when a photographers hands are needed for a shoot. As long as the model is ok with this then there is nothing wrong with the photographers touching her. It has to be her call or she is ok with what the idea is. bs  Sep 07 05 08:22 am Link Curt Burgess wrote: Human nature. It won't change. Like all communities, they can start out cool and people get along. Sep 07 05 08:43 am Link Eric Muss-Barnes wrote: They're called Keyboard Warriors. Sep 07 05 08:50 am Link Two comments on this come to mind... I thought the handprint photo was interesting...it reminded me of an art piece that I like by an artist I can't remember the name of. They had a model covered with red, smeary hand prints. The hand prints were used to symbolize the groping of a rapist. I start each shoot by painting the model, which involves much touching, but always with the same respect I would give my best friends sister. Even then, when a model is having trouble posing (especially with a prop), if the model just can't get the arm, leg, or chin in the right position or angle I will help by guiding them by hand AFTER ASKING THE MODELS PERMISSION. And I ask for permission again each and every time. When I taught pre-school aged children we taught them about good touching and bad touching...c'mon folks the poster is just reminding us here. You can and should allow good touching, but you are totally right to object to bad touching. Only you can tell what is good or bad touching to you, and it is up to you to make sure your boundaries are respected. It also helps if you communicate verbally with such comments as "I didn't appreciate you touching me", "don't touch me there again", or "if you touch me in that manner again, our shoot (date, working relationship...whatever) is over!" Photographers also need to realize that while they may have posed models a thousand times, this may only be the models 3rd experience in front of the camera or whatever. The level of nudity and touching that YOU may be accustomed to, may be totally invasive to a model. So my answer to the photogs is ALWAYS ask before you touch. and to the models, perhaps at the beginning of the shoot you can say "if you feel you need to touch me, I expect to be asked first" Clear lines never hurt. Sep 07 05 10:17 am Link Im a good butt adjuster.. Is that like a Claims adjuster.. Adjusther good! (:------ Hj Sep 07 05 10:23 am Link The Body Painter Rich wrote: Exactly my point. Sep 07 05 02:59 pm Link Monsante...while that may have been your point as well, it is important that we don't excuse the photographers behavior after the fact. Something that we need to realize at shoots AND on the forum is that many of these models are YOUNG women, to whom us older males might seem to be authority figures. Saying things like "poor thing" or "cry baby" or other such comments (not quoting you here necessarily) is demeaning and is not constructive. So in shoots AND in posts, I try to treat models as if they were the younger sister of my best friend...unless the model requests otherwise (or uses such language in a post that she does not deserve such respect.) Sep 07 05 05:44 pm Link Jacinta Lee wrote: Monsante Bey wrote: Nevertheless you were a VICTIM and has all the rights to be Sep 07 05 06:31 pm Link I NEVER touch the model. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. I will often do the pose myself and make a complete fool of myself but that tends to lighten the mood a bit. But bottom line, in my opinion and my shoots, there is no reason for me to ever touch the model. That boundary has to exist and I don't come any where near them. But each photog and model is different. I would make it clear what is acceptable to you and what is not so that there are no doubts involved just to be on the safe side. Sep 07 05 06:39 pm Link Not enough information. -Don Sep 07 05 06:54 pm Link I sometimes touch, but I always ask first. Anything from adjusting hair, clothing, or moving your foot I want the model to know I'm going to do it and be OK with it. Sep 07 05 07:47 pm Link It really comes down to two things...maybe three. One, it is more or less accepted that the proper thing to do is ask, or at least tell the model what you're going to do. That gives her the oppurtunity to fix it herself, let him/her do it or say no. Two, there are times when every thing else about the pose is perfect and if the model moves her head, hands, toes, the shot won't be the same, but that one thing (a hair, a bra strap, a butt) may be out of place and must be adjusted. Again, asking is the appropriate thing here. Third, once the photographer did this (in this case), did you (the model) say anything to him letting him know you were uncomfortable with this action? If you did (which it didn't sound like), how did he react. This action may be second nature to him, especially if he works with repeat models and this is the way they work. So, he may have did something "wrong", but by you not letting him know, you're just as "guilty". Ask Peter Parker. Sep 07 05 08:27 pm Link I am the opposite about this...I liked to be touched. Wait, that didn't sound right! lol. What I mean is: I like the photographer or assistant to position me, move me, tweak me, whatever, to get the right pose/look they are searching for. I have always kind of expected them to do that when shooting artistic nude or fetish work. Sometimes it's too hard to explain what you want the model to do, so "propping" her up isn't bad to me. What I don't like is AFTER the shoot is over, getting touched!!! Sep 09 05 10:37 am Link I promise I won't touch your butt.. cross my heart and hope to die... BUT I SURE DO ADMIRE IT!!! Studio36 Sep 09 05 10:59 am Link Photographers should Never, but NEVER touch the model. Her body is her personal space and it should not be violated. Photographer can ask for posing, but the model can always refuse. Sep 09 05 12:16 pm Link Eric Muss-Barnes wrote: Sep 09 05 12:32 pm Link You guys need some friendlyer Models.. (:----- Hj Sep 09 05 12:35 pm Link Sorry about the double post... I think that a good relationship is imperative to high quality work. That being said, I think its kind of odd that she doesn't mind being "touched" by females... I have a penis, but that doesn't automaticly make me creepy for wanting to help you pose, nor does it mean that I am trying to molest or sleep with you. I do agree that there are limits and boundries that need to be observed (like positioning vs. groping) but If a model does not "get it" and me posing in front of her does not help then, IMO, I think that is OK to POSITION the model... but only with a verbal steatment of exactly what it is that I am doing. I appologise for this photogs behavior if it was indeed inappropriate, but there are those of us out there who shoot with the final product in mind, and not the hope that we will see you in bed later. ~J~ Sep 09 05 12:39 pm Link Black T Photo wrote: Depends on if he was cute! Sep 09 05 12:40 pm Link Curt Burgess wrote: Well said. Sep 09 05 12:46 pm Link not sure that giving the guy a beatdown would make things any better...but touching models inappropriately is never a good thing...hell, i have a problem with just touching models in general-"fixing" a loose hair on a model's face or removing the crease from an article of clothing she might be wearing... touching a model's bare hiney is going overboard...unless for some freak of nature she's given you permission in advance... Sep 09 05 02:55 pm Link |
