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how often do you receive a bait & switch?
Hey everyone, I initially was going to post a series of emails from a model as kind of a way to vent but ended up deciding against it. I figured that that would be just lowering myself to her level (she ended up insulting my port w/ a [pharaphrasing] "Take a look at my port. How dare you consider working w/ me on such & such terms." Don't worry had I not changed my mind, I would have left out her name & rates & stuff but it led me to ponder... Photographers, how often do you get models who either send you an email or a tag expressing liking your work? & then when you follow up on it, they completely do a bait & switch, as if trying to go on a fishing expedition for a pay gig? Models don't be afraid to answer this but only in the reverse terms? Meaning like a photographer compliments you in some fashion & then when you followup, they won't work w/ you unless you pay them. For me, its been happening more & more...which I dunno, maybe I should take that as my work is *gasp* actually improving from say a year ago. Now let's discuss class... :-) Sep 21 05 12:30 pm Link Classless more like it. Recently a model informed me I had to pay for her parking even though she didn't ask before she decided to park where she did. I could have suggested a free spot. However remember though many of the models here are trying to make some $$$ they could care less about good photography. Insulting you being rude not showing up, etc. Many may really like your work but are still trying to hustle. Thy may be between jobs or really broke. Thats understandable but never, never insult someone or act without class unless you don't have any. Sep 21 05 12:47 pm Link pretty sure models have the same issues!! photographers tag them and all of that stuff Sep 21 05 12:58 pm Link i've had a few change their mind about doing a tfp with me or deciding that i should pay them MY $250 fee. i say f-it and move on to next. Sep 21 05 01:07 pm Link I don't know how valid my reply is since I don't have much experience but it hasn't happened to me yet  Sep 21 05 01:22 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: seems to be the rage currently over there, a good friend of mine in arizona complained just yesterday, about this exact situation. Sep 21 05 01:26 pm Link I have had it happen once via OMP and I was uber offended as he had written me an email profusing about how much of a fan of my work he was! Grrr. lol I won't mention his name as I know that is not the done thing but I found out that was his 'standard' form. Compensation should be dealt with from the on-set otherwise it just makes for icky dealings. And we all know the best kinda gigs are the paid kinds! Sep 21 05 01:28 pm Link Happened to me and a friend of mines, where the model hits you up, sets the shoot, agrees to the terms, then tries to force you to shoot one of her friends with her (a paying gig, I might ad) and then she tries to change the terms of the shoot on you that she agreed to AND insists that you shoot and pay her friend. lol, girls can be funny sometimes. Sep 21 05 02:00 pm Link Two or three times a week. I ignore it now, though it used to piss me off. Sep 21 05 02:04 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: Never happen to me...though I wonder sometimes...cause I have gotten e-mail from girls that are out of state asking if I would shoot them if they ever visited LA. When I check their port, I'll see that they ONLY accept paid jobs...that kind of makes me worry. Sep 21 05 02:14 pm Link DigitalCMH wrote: hey, i get that too! i have all my lil "rules and regulations" listed in my profile and i dont think that they're aware that they'll be paying me. eh go figure Sep 21 05 02:21 pm Link This happens every time I order take out.  I blame Bush! Sep 21 05 02:27 pm Link I never initiate contact with anyone for paid work unless they've made it clear that they're offering paid work. Seems very tacky to me. Sep 21 05 03:04 pm Link Chris Ambler wrote: Yup! Sep 21 05 05:41 pm Link theda, i've been your biggest fan since you began modeling and i would like a shoot with you. airfare/hotel/food/car rental are at your expense and as always my $10,000 fee is to be paid in cash upfront. i do not provide recipts. you must locate and pay for studio time in advance and provide your own mua and an assistant to carry my camera bag and get me coffee. i only do artistic hardcore for my portfolio on baggyturtlesluts.com but in the interest of saving you money i will model the male role myself. you will not recieve copies of the photos and i will retain all rights. as per my standard contract you must clean my apartment before you leave. yours truly, Guy W. Camera LOL I may be the only one that thinks I'm funny but I couldn't resist! Sep 21 05 06:03 pm Link I have had this happen to me a few times. The best was someone telling me how much they liked my stuff and wanted me to shoot with them, then when I replied they asked for money that I just didn't have to offer, then suddenly the compliments turn into "hon" or "sweetie" then ::insert nasty comment about me/my portfolio here:: Im not your Hon or Sweetie, take your rejection in a professional manner and move along please. Sep 21 05 06:15 pm Link It has never happened to me. Wht has happened a lot is models or would be models bailing at the last minute with little or even NO warning. Just the flaky girls who want attention - rather than a career do this with regularity. I am learning to tell the difference between thse girls and those whos interest in modelling is more than just havng a good time and an opportunity to possibly claim a stauds they have no intention of following through with. Sep 21 05 06:17 pm Link back when i started shooting models (the trade in photographing dinosaur races had begun to wane after the big asteroid hit), i experienced a couple of really cheesy "models" who tried to pull the bait and switch during a shoot. they were bf and gf--both signed to the same crummy agency. they got pretty indignant that i wasn't up for the sudden change of plans. oh yeah, and they wanted free prints too. i promptly ended the shoot and sent them on their way. man, were they pissed. i am amazed, when i look back on it, that i had the wherewithal as a college freshman to do that. the rules (for both parties) of any test shoot are always made clear before i open the door. Sep 21 05 06:39 pm Link If they're actually saying "wow, I would love to work with you" and then quoting their rates, that's pretty shitty. However, if they're just saying something like "wonderful work", that's not necessarily an open invitation to test... Sep 21 05 06:46 pm Link The OMP variant of mutual "desire to work with" that leads to a shake down is probably 1/4th of the requests I get. Them: I saw your "dtww" and I love your work. Can we set up a shoot? + Me: Are you testing or are you looking for me to pay you? If the latter, I pay when there's a client who... = silence Get used to it. I liked photographer's response to the question of "what's the payment" in another thread which was to the effect of "how much do you have?" Sep 21 05 07:10 pm Link ProShotPhoto wrote: Not sure what your procedures are but have you thought about or do you do reconfirmation calls prior to the shoot. I didn't used to do that until a model did one of those to me basically asking if we were still 3 days prior. Each successive night after, I got the same call. Sep 21 05 07:22 pm Link megafunk wrote: Wrong answer. I'd ask them if it was going to be TFP or them paying me. Sep 21 05 07:52 pm Link Oddly, I have never seen a "bait and switch" move. I always establish the terms up front, and do my best to avoid these scenarios. Have I ever been misunderstood? Yes, but no one ever got their nose out of joint. I have had models with grainy low res webcam pics approach me for paid work, at a rate higher than most Playmates charge, and I always thank them for their interest, and suggest that they re-examine their understanding of the industry pay scale... Polite and diplomatic discourse is a valuable tool, and good communication skills are a must in any field. Sep 21 05 09:19 pm Link There is a difference between someone (anyone) liking your work, paying you a compliment -VERSUS- requesting to work with you. Want to avoid miscommunication? "I want to work with you. Location. Date. Job. Pay." Pretty simple. No miscommunication. Saves time too! Sep 21 05 09:37 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: WELL SAID! Sep 22 05 06:39 am Link Josie Nutter wrote: Wanting to work with a photographer who has professional image - perhaps the model believes that the images are good enough to be actually published somewhere - hence the assumption that the photographer works in professional circles and does professional, paying gigs. A simple, "no thank you" to whatever offer is the pro way to handle it. Then just walk away (feeling free to grind your teeth, etc, but not making a public scene). Sep 22 05 06:46 am Link I got an email last night by a model complimenting my work and asking if i had any paid work available that i would consider her for. her email was simple, direct, and honest. i admire that. Sep 22 05 09:56 am Link Interesting idea here. It seems to me "Dreams to Keep" that you are saying she should be paid just for getting naked. I also think that is what most of the inexperienced models here think as well. Any photographer or model who maintains that notion is propogating a type of strip club business model and rationale. I for one, when I do pay an art model I'm not paying for her nudity. I'm paying for her skill in presenting her form in such a manner as to make for a good image. It's her experience, sense of self, and movement that make her valuable. To me it's like any other skill. If you're new with no experience you're probably not very good at what you do yet, or at least not as good as you could be with more experience. Relate it to the skilled trades. An apprentice does not make journey man wages. Neither should a beginning model request a wage that is not only at the top of the scale it's usually off the scale. I've worked with quite a few art models who keep very busy working for private artists and art schools who charge no where near the $100/hr rate that most newby models here think they deserve. Even if they do look Angelina Jollie, if they don't know how to present themselves the pictures will not be any good. I could get a much nicer image with a lesser beauty who really knew how to pose and work in front of a camera. So if you expect to be paid just for getting naked you should probably find a strip club to work at. It's more suited to your state of mind. And, if you're a photographer willing to pay anyone just to get naked then you're a GWC who is also more suited to strip club patronage. Sep 22 05 10:03 am Link No, re-read my post - I didn't say "she should get paid for getting naked". I said, "Its her body, she can ASK for whatever she thinks her time/ body/ etc is worth". If you don't think she's worth it, don't hire or pay her. But don't bitch at her for it either. You set the price for your work/ skill/ talent/ equipment. She sets the price for her "stuff". Up front investment has NEVER be justification for an asking price - the market determines that. That's the free market I also spoke about. Sep 22 05 02:04 pm Link Heh, I posted something like this a few weeks ago and everyone freaked out, told me I was whining lol. In my example, the talent had sent me two emails saying how much she loved my work and wanted to work with me. When it was possible for me to work with her, she sends me her rates. I was able to shrug it off as a waste of time, but I'd rather burn a 100.00 bill then burn 10minutes. Sep 22 05 03:40 pm Link Wow, I just got my cherry popped..lol I been going back and forth with a model about shooting and she basically wanted everything and leaving me with value-compromised images. I tried to point this out to her. After I stated that I did not see the incentive for me she wrote back: From this shoot. I get the following - all of the images from the shoot- (Not every one. I dont need the images where My eyes are closed, posing is off, or lighting is bad... etc.) - rights to use and edit them as you see fit (although if at anytime you do not approve with an image or need an image for selling reasons, and would prefer me to not use it at a certain time... then please tell me and I will be more than willing to change, remove it, replace it, etc.) - to be paid for shooting the images - travel reimbursement You get the following; A model that will come to you. A model that can move and pose. A model that will be there on time, is not flaky, or stuck up. Images for your portfolio use to edit, resell, use as you please. As if I'm going for that. I admire that she stuck to her guns. But I resent being treated like a GWC; as if I just got off the turnip truck. I'll be damned if I will pay a model to be her photographer. Sep 22 05 04:52 pm Link I've had it happen more than once. The last one wanted TFP for her portfolio, brought a LARGE guy as a chaperone (which Im fine with so long as he doesn't give me "advice,") then DEMANDED I pay her model fee UP FRONT ON THE SPOT. I laughed, the guy got ticked and threatend to hurt me. The both stopped dead cold when I started laughing at him. I knew right then and there they were trying to roll me. Not gonna happen. I told the model where she could stick her "fee" and when the guy said something, I calmly reminded him that up until not too long ago, I sued to teach hand-to-hand combat to soldiers and I would leave with his eye or his adam's apple in my pocket if he even sneezed in my direction. He didn't flinch. Smart boy. Sep 22 05 10:21 pm Link p51 wrote: This is very bad. I have to watchout for this. Sep 22 05 10:36 pm Link So far, no one has had the balls to run a total blatant bait and switch on me. I guess the closest thing to it was when a model new to Hawaii contacted me via OMP. She liked my stuff and was cool with doing TFP, so we were looking at doing some Maxim stuff around Diamond Head. The week of the shoot, she emails me to say that because she got screwed by another photographer, she was going to charge me to do our shoot. I couldnât quite follow her logic, so I never bothered to reply, and she never followed up. Oh well . . . Sep 22 05 10:39 pm Link |
