Ed Burns Photography wrote:

Scientist recently discovered a cure for apathy...but so far, no one seems interested in finding out more about it. 

the concern of steroids in baseball is far too important right now, apathy wil have to take a back burner for now.

BCG wrote:

apathy will be the death of this nation.

Who cares?

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Who cares?

me

KM von Seidl wrote:
that doesn't make one a hero.

Depends who you talk to. If you talk to a daughter whose dad goes into a mine every day and risk his life so she can have one then to her he will be a hero.

Terry Breedlove wrote:

Depends who you talk to. If you talk to a daughter whose dad goes into a mine every day and risk his life so she can have one then to her he will be a hero.

okay it goes to how you define a hero.


using ed burns and eric s then basically anyone who lives their lives with dignity is a hero.  if that's how you define it then yes those guys are heros, as as people who are loggers, who work in slaughterhouses, teachers, cops, firemen, armed forces, fishing boats, oil rigs, caltrans, crop dusting, farmers, nighttime 7-11 clerks, a single parent, parents who work 4 jobs, illegal aliens (because they risk their lives to improve the economics of their families), etc etc etc.

basically the only folks not a hero under this litmus test are photographers and models who use escorts.

UdoR wrote:

How about captains of industry, Wall Street CEO's and other people in power, whose work enables myriads of employees to put bread on the table for their families, having the responsibilities for hundreds of thousands of people and their families and working constantly with one leg in jail, because a wrong decision, a change in law can turn an accounting error or omission from a tolerated practice into a criminal act?

I am not talking about those who abuse their power, simply for lining their own pocket, but those who work almost 24/7 to build corporate America and trying to realize a dream?

I personally think that the "American dream" is a ploy by a capitalistic country to keep Americans in debt and enslaved by the banks.

I agree that the term hero is thrown around too easily.

BCG wrote:

me

Well that's a releif...now I won't have to worry about it.

Terry Breedlove wrote:
Well to an american mom whose son was rescued by a brave soldier who risked his life and  suffered injuries to do it, to that mom that soldier would be a hero. To the  opposing forces he would still be the enemy and would not be a hero. So how do you qualify what makes a hero and what gives you the right to tell the families whose men are trapped in that mine they are not heros.

It's friggin' off-topic board on a MODEL site.   Get a grip.  What I assumed we're having is called a discussion and I'm not going to apologize just because I don't think that everyone in the US is a hero.

BCG wrote:

Q: why does malibu barbie have squished tits???
A: g.i. joe has kung fu grip.

Angel Tara wrote:

I personally think that the "American dream" is a ploy by a capitalistic country to keep Americans in debt and enslaved by the banks.

*tilts head like a dog*
huh?

KM von Seidl wrote:

okay it goes to how you define a hero.


using ed burns and eric s then basically anyone who lives their lives with dignity is a hero.  if that's how you define it then yes those guys are heros, as as people who are loggers, who work in slaughterhouses, teachers, cops, firemen, armed forces, fishing boats, oil rigs, caltrans, crop dusting, farmers, nighttime 7-11 clerks, a single parent, parents who work 4 jobs, illegal aliens (because they risk their lives to improve the economics of their families), etc etc etc.

basically the only folks not a hero under this litmus test are photographers and models who use escorts.

I just think we as a country should re-define what real heroes are and honor those who are deserving of admiration.  In my opinion, I find it disgusting that people like Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, Britney Spears, Paris Hilton (etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum) make millions of dollars a year for their "celebrity", yet teachers, nurses, EMT'S, police and firefighters only make a small fraction of that kind of income.  The film industry pays actors hundreds of thousands of dollars to play the role of someone in one of these career fields.  The sports industry pays athletes millions to play games.  The music industry pays (very often) one-hit-wonders millions of dollars to produce one song that will get air time on the radio.  Why? 

I can watch an episode of MTV cribs, or VH-1's "It's good to be ___" and just roll my eyes at all the luxuries some of these brainless wonders have.  Then to watch some troll like Flavor Flav jet set all around the world with an ignorant hag like Brigitte Nielson, and then get ANOTHER show where a bunch of money hungry tramps try to "earn" his love is just baffling.  What message are we sending out to the general population?  That wealth, sex and luxury are what a successful life is about, even if you have to sacrifice intelligence, values and integrity?

I also listen to all the ignorant and foolish sound bites that these celebs babble, many of which are follwed by a "Ya' know whut 'um sayin'?", and think to myself, "NO...I don't know what your saying.  ENGLISH MUTHA' F*#K'A!!!! DO YOU SPEAK IT?" (quote by Samuel L. Jackson, emphasis mine).  Yet, audiences would rather hear what some lofty-headed actor or musician has to say about politics and world events, instead of to people who are far more aware of what's going on in the world around them, like an officer or a teacher. 

It should be safe to assume that anyone with any level of intelligence wouldn't give a rat's ass about what Paris and Nicole think is "hot", but instead, you see these sheep out there carrying around their tiny dogs in cages shaped like a purse.  Are we seriously going to let someone like THAT dictate to us what's fashionable or trendy??  When are we going to hear someone with a microphone say, "Oh, I'm sorry...you're an idiot; I didn't want to talk to you.  Where's that high school counselor that can tell us how some of these styles are becoming more distracting in schools and are creating more competitiveness among teens?" ?

Sometimes, one has to just raise his hands and go, WTF!!!

Ed Burns Photography wrote:

I just think we as a country should re-define what real heroes are and honor those who are deserving of admiration.  In my opinion, I find it disgusting that people like Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, Britney Spears, Paris Hilton (etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum) make millions of dollars a year for their "celebrity", yet teachers, nurses, EMT'S, police and firefighters only make a small fraction of that kind of income.  The film industry pays actors hundreds of thousands of dollars to play the role of someone in one of these career fields.  The sports industry pays athletes millions to play games.  The music industry pays (very often) one-hit-wonders millions of dollars to produce one song that will get air time on the radio.  Why? 

I can watch an episode of MTV cribs, or VH-1's "It's good to be ___" and just roll my eyes at all the luxuries some of these brainless wonders have.  Then to watch some troll like Flavor Flav jet set all around the world with an ignorant hag like Brigitte Nielson, and then get ANOTHER show where a bunch of money hungry tramps try to "earn" his love is just baffling.  What message are we sending out to the general population?  That wealth, sex and luxury are what a successful life is about, even if you have to sacrifice intelligence, values and integrity?

I also listen to all the ignorant and foolish sound bites that these celebs babble, many of which are follwed by a "Ya' know whut 'um sayin'?", and think to myself, "NO...I don't know what your saying.  ENGLISH MUTHA' F*#K'A!!!! DO YOU SPEAK IT?" (quote by Samuel L. Jackson, emphasis mine).  Yet, audiences would rather hear what some lofty-headed actor or musician has to say about politics and world events, instead of to people who are far more aware of what's going on in the world around them, like an officer or a teacher. 

It should be safe to assume that anyone with any level of intelligence wouldn't give a rat's ass about what Paris and Nicole think is "hot", but instead, you see these sheep out there carrying around their tiny dogs in cages shaped like a purse.  Are we seriously going to let someone like THAT dictate to us what's fashionable or trendy??  When are we going to hear someone with a microphone say, "Oh, I'm sorry...you're an idiot; I didn't want to talk to you.  Where's that high school counselor that can tell us how some of these styles are becoming more distracting in schools and are creating more competitiveness among teens?" ?

Sometimes, one has to just raise his hands and go, WTF!!!

this is a great essay on the idiocy of celebrity and why humans give so much of their power over to the concept and the pursuit and emulation of it.

and I would never begin to agree with the fact that just because someone has a good publicist or can put a ball in a hole makes them a hero.

I have no problem with the assertion that those who live with a code of respect, dignity, bushido, whatever you want to call it, is worthy of admiration.

my only point is that I think of heroic action as being something extraordinary.  maybe it's a sad state of ourselves that simply living ones life with dignity is so rare or exceptional.

BCG wrote:
"my only point is that I think of heroic action as being something extraordinary."

what these men do on a day in and day out basis is extraoridnary...just as is the extraordinary action of the single mother who works three jobs instead of being on welfare...or the overloaded child protective services case worker who has not lost touch with the meaning of the job in the ocean of red tape a heavy case loads...it is these people who are the true Heros and backbone of this nation.

*listens to the violins*

BCG wrote:
"my only point is that I think of heroic action as being something extraordinary."

what these men do on a day in and day out basis is extraoridnary...just as is the extraordinary action of the single mother who works three jobs instead of being on welfare...or the overloaded child protective services case worker who has not lost touch with the meaning of the job in the ocean of red tape a heavy case loads...it is these people who are the true Heros and backbone of this nation.

damn you're sounding like a bleeding heart liberal now.   we're going to have to send out the right wing hit squad.

BCG wrote:
"my only point is that I think of heroic action as being something extraordinary."

what these men do on a day in and day out basis is extraoridnary...just as is the extraordinary action of the single mother who works three jobs instead of being on welfare...or the overloaded child protective services case worker who has not lost touch with the meaning of the job in the ocean of red tape a heavy case loads...it is these people who are the true Heros and backbone of this nation.

I think, in essence, what we're saying is that there are millions of people in this country that aren't taking the easy way out.  They're not giving in to their temptations and abusing things like drugs, alcohol, etc, and in return neglecting their children or other responsibilities.  There are also millions of people out there that are hard working and striving for better lives, but have salary caps and have to do the best with what they've got.  While a lot of them can have relatively comfortable lives, the majority will never get the mansion and luxury cars that you see celebs getting.  What makes this such a bitter pill to swallow, is that the celebrities get this not for their hard work, but for their talent.  What's even worse, is that the growing trend is to make celebrities out of people who have no talent whatsoever and are unintelligent to boot. 

If life was fair, the majority of people in this country would not be living paycheck to paycheck.  The film, music and sports industry force the good people of this country to pay millions of their hard earned dollars for entertainment, so they can allow someone like Iverson to buy $60,000 basketball shoes with diamond encrusted laces, or P. Diddy to throw himself a 3 million dollar birthday party.  I can appreciate those celebrities like Spielberg and Bill Gates that donate their money to worthy causes, but unfortunately people like them are the minority in the group of "haves".  Instead, you see more people like Mike Tyson, MC Hammer and Michael Jackson squander all their wealth until they're either bankrupt or selling their soul for another few million dollars.  Some even destroy their lives, like Kurt Cobain, or Michael Huthcins, or River Phoenix. 

Maybe we are generous with the word hero.  But then again, maybe that's all we can give to those that are like ourselves that get up every morning and face all the challenges of life with our limited funds.  There truly are acts of heroism everyday though.  Some are great and make evening news.  Others are just simple little things, that are kept between the person in need and his/her hero.  Me personally, I don't do it for the money, the fame, the medals, or the glory.  I do it because I care about my fellow man.  If I get recognized one day for doing something above and beyond the call, then so be it.  If not, then whatever effort I put forth that day and the appreciation that I get in return is enough to warm my heart until the next call.  Either way though, I can still look at the man in the mirror when I wake up the next day and not regret what I see.

vanscottie wrote:
Oh the Hate responses I'm about to get

But screw it, I'll say it anyway

Fuck Coal!

Why in the hell are we using a 19th century fuel source in the 21st century??

Coal is the triple threat of enviornmental destruction as it fucks up the land, the water and the air, as well as a toxic-hazard to the human body in the form of black-lung, et all.

"Clean Coal" technology is a joke, like a filter on a cigarette

The sooner these idiotic coal mines close the better. The technology is out there and improves daily.

Yes, I hope they rescue the miners by the way...d'uh

the american consumer is not ready nor is happy with any of the alternatives...solar panels are too costly and people are too happy with their suv's.

KM von Seidl wrote:

damn you're sounding like a bleeding heart liberal now.   we're going to have to send out the right wing hit squad.

*snicker

vanscottie wrote:
Oh the Hate responses I'm about to get

But screw it, I'll say it anyway

Fuck Coal!

Why in the hell are we using a 19th century fuel source in the 21st century??

Coal is the triple threat of enviornmental destruction as it fucks up the land, the water and the air, as well as a toxic-hazard to the human body in the form of black-lung, et all.

"Clean Coal" technology is a joke, like a filter on a cigarette

The sooner these idiotic coal mines close the better. The technology is out there and improves daily.

Yes, I hope they rescue the miners by the way...d'uh

Sounds good to me...the only real alternative today at this very time is Nuke energy.   Can we put one of those in your back yard?

Terry Breedlove wrote:
Here in washington state my family is watching this very closely because they grew up in West Virginia and worked the coal mines. I myself used to work in the logging industry here in Washington state so I know hard work and I know what these guys do for this country and how they get no thanks and all the blame and ugly accusations thrown at them. If it wasn't for men like this working in these natural resource industries not one of us would have a pot to piss in. These men are heros because they make america what it is and never get any thanks. When one of them dies you don't see a memorial built, you don't see a line of police cars and TV coverage, it barely gets mentioned in the obituaries. May god be with those men and their families

And they, like so many of us in dangerous, thankless jobs, get paid well for what we do. Lack of job options does not not make a hero. Having said that... I'm sure all our thoughts are with them.

bencook2 wrote:

*visualize a factory with smoke stacks*
These evil companies only strive to make PROFIT off the backs of the helpless employees.  We should tax and legislate these companies out of business (or at least create more barriers to entering business).  Then the GOVERNMENT, who knows best, can create a nirvana/welfare state and we can all live on that "free bubble-up and eat that rainbow stew".  Because without the employer...there is no employee.  Down with industry!  Up with regulation!
___________________________

Commentary aside, I think folks like Sam Walton,  Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the imigrant down the street that started with a dream and created a business are in fact and in deed, heros.  Certainly, role models.

Sam Walton...maybe. His kids....SUCK!

bencook2 wrote:

Sounds good to me...the only real alternative today at this very time is Nuke energy.   Can we put one of those in your back yard?

I'm in Calif, there are already nuke plants in Calif, so essentially it's already "in my backyard" how about we put one in "their" backyard to replace the coal mine

nice try attempting to paint me as a tree hugger

BCG wrote:

UdoR...i do agree...the word "hero" does need to be redefined...we honor any drunken coked up putz who can hit, dunk, pass or putt a ball, deify the words of the ignorant television anchor and bow and worship celluloid "stars"...the men that go into those mines are true american heros as they seek not to impress...they recieve no glory or adoration, yet the work they do is far more dangerous than 99% of the boys and girls deployed overseas...our whole value system is in need of a major overhaul...teachers who are tasked with training and raising the next generation make LESS than a manager at McD's...the too are heros in my book.

Chance wrote:
As someone who has lost a brother in the war against terrorism, how is working in a mine, 99% more dangerous than fighting overseas?

I'm sorry for your loss. Truly.

John Jebbia wrote:
I'm sure after all is said and done, someone will find a way to blame Bush.

...you mean it's not all his fault?

KM von Seidl wrote:
out of curiousity, has this mine been recently cited for safety violations, or do they do that anymore under the free market credo to unfetter businesses we're under?

From WTAE Pittsburgh:

"The mine was cited for hundreds of violations of federal safety rules in 2005. Federal inspectors cited the Sago mine for 46 alleged violations of federal mine health and safety rules during an 11-week review that ended late last month."

UPI newswire:

"In 2004, the Sago Mine, near Tallmansville, W.Va., reported an injury rate that was three times that of similar-size underground mines across the country, the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette reported."

vanscottie wrote:

I'm in Calif, there are already nuke plants in Calif, so essentially it's already "in my backyard" how about we put one in "their" backyard to replace the coal mine

nice try attempting to paint me as a tree hugger

Not painting you at all.  I live in SC so I got two within 120 miles of each other!  But you only said get rid of it.  Let me ask it clearly this time...and replace it with what immediatly?

BCG wrote:
are trapped in a coal mine in tallmansville, w. va...God have mercy on them.

i dont get it, did they save someone?