This thread was locked on 2016-04-25 01:58:16
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Kelly Kooper wrote:
Hmm I'm of two minds on this one. If I'm interested in the job, I generally respond with my mobile number and ask that the tog either writes or calls me to discuss specifics. I find some people prefer to call but most would rather write an email, usually to discuss meeting before a shoot. I'be no doubt it's more a matter of convinence than anything else. It doesn't bother me either way but the internet is certainly becoming the easiest way to contact and meet people so I suppose it stands to reason that it is also how people would choose to maintain contact. There's no way you can convice me that the internet is an easier way to contact people thatn telephone. To meet people - yes.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Kelly Kooper wrote:
Hmm I'm of two minds on this one. If I'm interested in the job, I generally respond with my mobile number and ask that the tog either writes or calls me to discuss specifics. I find some people prefer to call but most would rather write an email, usually to discuss meeting before a shoot. I'be no doubt it's more a matter of convinence than anything else. It doesn't bother me either way but the internet is certainly becoming the easiest way to contact and meet people so I suppose it stands to reason that it is also how people would choose to maintain contact. double post - sorry
Model
msonyxorb
Posts: 40
Los Angeles, California, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
I joined this site about a month ago and so far, its been a big waste of time. Typically it goes like this... I browse the model pages until I find a model that may be suited for a project that I am working on. I send an email to the model with breif details about the project and about myself and I ask the model to CALL if he or she is interested.
If a model does not respond, that is fine with me and I do not contact the model again.
However, if a model IS interested, I would expect the model to call so I can provide full details about the project. However, instead of a phone call, I get email responses like, "I am very interested."
I guess at that point I'm supposed to send ANOTHER email??!!? and we're supposed to go back and forth day after day? I guess some people think model mayhem is another name for My Space. I'm not looking for email pen pals -just models for legitimate projects.
Why any model would be "interested" in a project but NOT call to secure a spot as part of that project is totally beyond me...
If you'd like to see a sample of 4 email responses that are typical of the sort of responses I've gotten from this site, visit this link:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7795/mm4jz.jpg well some people are shy and dont want to make the first IRL move. When people email me i usually do email them back, sometimes i get up the courage to call, but most time social anxiety takes over and i just email, BUT i always leave my number so they can call me at their most convenient time. (rather than risk me calling them when they're uber busy)
Model
Kelly Kooper
Posts: 1240
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Lol well at least with a double post I got the point twice  That's ok 00siris, it really is a personal thing. Some people, particulary the younger generation, prefer to use internet or sms as their primary contact. It makes you wonder where we'll be 20 years from now - will anyone be actually talking to one another or will we have found a technology that does that for us too? Anyhow that's a bit off topic but I do understand what the tog that started this post is so annoyed.
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
I still don't understand complaining about a free site... 00siris wrote:
that's fine - but you're support to that point was a subtle marginalizing John's credit for being on this site.
All I'm saying, sir, is that there are some really accomplished photographers on this site who are well known in the industry. And their bringing up certain points is by no means a suggestion that they are of lesser calibre.
Check out the work of
Amoya:
MSJ Images:
NicoVision:
Goldstock:
MoodyMelon:
These people are all accomplished photographers and you can easily find their work outside of this site.
Craig Thomson wrote:
I've never seen any of those members complain about anyting here 00siris wrote:
If you read into what he was saying, you'd see that John's "complaint" is not really about this site at all but more about a certain type of model. Craig Thomson wrote:
Have you read the title of this thread? John Ricard photography wrote:
Model Mayhem -Waste of time? John Ricard photography wrote:
I joined this site about a month ago and so far, its been a big waste of time.
Photographer
John Ricard photography
Posts: 38
New York, New York, US
William Kious wrote:
Why should the model run up his/her phone bill when you're the one initiating the contact? Or take the chance that you've got caller ID and will start "stalking" them? Think about it. Models get a lot of bullshit offers - if you were in their shoes, wouldn't you want to keep things a bit more "impersonal" and anonymous?
If you think the site is a waste of time, go elsewhere. I don't understand why you are justifying the model's behavior.
The model should "run up his/her phone bill" because the MODEL is the one who is asking to be considered for work. In your mind it makes perfect sense for a model to post her pictures online, write "I am looking to do photo shoots", and then after she is contacted by a legitimate photographer with a legitimate offer that she CLAIMS TO BE INTERESTED IN, she she should say, "You know on second thought, I don't want to run up my phone bill so I'm not going to call."
That actually makes sense to you?
To make matters worse many models here are looking for TFP which means they do not spend money. You would take that to the extreme where the model doesn't even have to spend the money of making a phone call? Is there any other career in the world besides modeling that you can get into WITHOUT spending money? (Plumbers pay for tools, Driving Instructors buy cars, Cops buy their own uniforms and guns, Teachers pay for college education, etc).
And as I've said here before, any model that is concerned about being "stalked" should NOT solict for work on the internet. And does it occur to you that she would have a better sense of whether a person was legitimate my making ONE phone call than she would in sending endless emails back and forth.
Photographer
John Ricard photography
Posts: 38
New York, New York, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
Craig Thomson wrote:
I still don't understand complaining about a free site... 00siris is correct in stating that my problem is not with the site, but rather with a certain type of model.
Obviously the title of my post is dramatic and suggests that it will be a troll post with no merit....however, the content of the post itself and the fact that I took the time to post 4 specific examples of what I was talking about make the post worthwhile. Anyone who read the post would not conclude that I am just dismissing the entire site as a waste of time.
Photographer
Merlinpix
Posts: 7118
Farmingdale, New York, US
Geezeus, get over it your online. I've hired, and flown in models from accross the country via emai,l without a single phone call exchanged.
Your also in NY There are some decent brick and mortar agencies in town; or and ad in the Village Voice with your phone# will deluge you with models.
Paul
Photographer
bob cooley
Posts: 81
New York, New York, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
My problem isn't that I think I'm a "superstar" and I'm disappointed that noone is interested in my offer. If a model isn't interested in what I'm offering that is fine by me and I understand completely. Right off the bat I'm telling the model that this does not pay, and that I will ask her to sign a model release, so if a model is not interested in this type of arrangement I do understand. It is not for everyone.
Again, my problem is NOT that models are not interested in my offer. 00siris wrote:
I actually see exactly where you're coming from but I think the problem is not actually with the site. It's just the way young people prefer to communicate these days. To me, it's frustrating as hell. But for whatever reason, they have this insistance on using AIM, email, site messages, or whatever. I think this is certainly a huge part of the issue; Part of the problem with computers, instant communication, etc. is that we (as a society) have become lazy in our business communications.
This is on BOTH sides of the fence (photogs and models).
When I was a photojournalist, EVERY assignment I shot had to consider the 5 "W"s
(who what where where why).
The same applies to ANY form of communication.
Look at ANY job requirement you have every seen, what is one of the most common things required? GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILLS.
I see so many photographers offers that don't fully instruct, or inform.
So for example, in your emails john, You do cover some of the essentials, but you have to take into consideration that you may recieve the "i'm interested" reponses.
I would have put a note at the end that read something like this:
"Please respond by telephone at (xxx) xxx-xxxx between the hours of 9-7 EST monday thru saturday.
If you are uncomfortable phoning, Please respond by email by March (x), 2006 with any questions, and a time when a call would be convenient to discuss my offer further. Please only respond if you are seriously interested."
This tells the model you are serious, and that she should respond seriously.
If you are an experienced professional, sometimes you need to gently guide those around you to get the response you are seeking.
This directly applies to 00siris's point. In an age where people have become sloppy communicators, it behooves us to more clearly state what we expect as a reponse.
Bottom line is that net-modeling "is what it is", and the only way that is going to change is if we (as individuals) work to make it better. That takes guidance and a little work on our parts.
Photographer
bob cooley
Posts: 81
New York, New York, US
I didn't see anyone make this point, so I'll add this... John Ricard photography wrote:
Right off the bat I'm telling the model that this does not pay, and that I will ask her to sign a model release... Okay, This is pretty much the same thing as having a local comany send out an assignment offer to a bunch of photogs on MM (or OMP, or Pbase, etc etc). that states:
"We would like you to come out to our facility and spend half the day shooting images for our company - There is no pay, and we can do whatever we want with the photos (including sell them, use them in our advertising with no further compensation or credit to you, post them on websites, and pretty much anything we want to do with them). We will give you a copy of your images on CD, but since they are going to be used commercially elsewhere, you really won't be able to use them for anything except selp-promotion."
What level of professionalism and talent do you think this company is going to recieve in reply?
Same thing applies here. You are looking for professionalism with an offer that is only going to attract wannabes and new models who don't know any better, or who aren't going to respond like a professional model would.
Professionalism costs money (because a professional expects to be compensated, for both their time, as well as the skills and professionalism they bring to the table).
You would not accept less from someone who hires you; so why do you expect less from other professionals?
Cheers!
/bob
Photographer
bob cooley
Posts: 81
New York, New York, US
* Apolllywogggys - (hit the post button twice - nothing to see here people.... move along :-) )
Photographer
bubbaclicks
Posts: 2271
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
like the original poster of this thread, i have been on here a few short months. the first month i was pulling my hair out. This is not an agency with a booker, so if you take that out of the equation, you will be a lot better off. Now on my 3rd month i have shot a few quality people and am on here less frequently, but always looking for the next "supah stah"
its the internet, and there are some people on here who have the vision of making it big and others who it's just a hobby. Try and weed that out from the portfolio, and the first and second messages can tell you alot
good luck and take a deep breath
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
00siris is correct in stating that my problem is not with the site, but rather with a certain type of model.
Obviously the title of my post is dramatic and suggests that it will be a troll post with no merit....however, the content of the post itself and the fact that I took the time to post 4 specific examples of what I was talking about make the post worthwhile. Anyone who read the post would not conclude that I am just dismissing the entire site as a waste of time. John Ricard photography wrote:
I joined this site about a month ago and so far, its been a big waste of time. The first line of your first paragraph states waste of time on this site.
Some would say WTF
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
John Ricard photography wrote:
00siris is correct in stating that my problem is not with the site, but rather with a certain type of model.
Obviously the title of my post is dramatic and suggests that it will be a troll post with no merit....however, the content of the post itself and the fact that I took the time to post 4 specific examples of what I was talking about make the post worthwhile. Anyone who read the post would not conclude that I am just dismissing the entire site as a waste of time. The first line of your first paragraph states waste of time on this site.
Some would say WTF
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
John Ricard photography wrote:
00siris is correct in stating that my problem is not with the site, but rather with a certain type of model.
Obviously the title of my post is dramatic and suggests that it will be a troll post with no merit....however, the content of the post itself and the fact that I took the time to post 4 specific examples of what I was talking about make the post worthwhile. Anyone who read the post would not conclude that I am just dismissing the entire site as a waste of time. The first line of your first paragraph states waste of time on this site.
Some would say WTF Indeed that is the title and yes it was stated - I even agree that it was not the best of titles to get his point across ..... ahhh, forget it!
Much success Craig
Model
Sxy6ftr
Posts: 108
Springfield, Virginia, US
bubbaclicks wrote:
like the original poster of this thread, i have been on here a few short months. the first month i was pulling my hair out. This is not an agency with a booker, so if you take that out of the equation, you will be a lot better off. Now on my 3rd month i have shot a few quality people and am on here less frequently, but always looking for the next "supah stah"
its the internet, and there are some people on here who have the vision of making it big and others who it's just a hobby. Try and weed that out from the portfolio, and the first and second messages can tell you alot
good luck and take a deep breath I would like to say that initially I fell into this category as far as hobby modeling. Since being on MM I have been asked to shoot and have taken some pretty good shots. Makes me want to shoot more. Most of these shoots have to be worked into my schedule because I DON'T GET PAID TO MODEL, I have a job. My problem is that some photogs want you to be readily available and i can't. I haven't had but one photog stand me up and that pissed me off. I was however able to avoid wasting an entire day because of the beauty of email, I gave him a specific time to respond to my email about the shoot and he never did...We are all learning here...
Photographer
J Sigerson
Posts: 587
Los Angeles, California, US
Olivia Hardt wrote:
If a model does that- that lets you know one of two things about her-
1. she didnt really read the the message
or
2. Shes very unprofessional
or both.
why would you want to work with a model like that anyways? Yeah... it's not useless; you actually find out a lot about people very quickly. Like, at least half of the models on here aren't really models, and the rest are a little cagey, because at least half the photographers on here aren't really photographers.
There are people making it work for them, though...
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
So quick to pass judgment on such a nice and useful site, I bet if you ask you can get 100% of your free back. Typical response
Photographer
JBPhoto
Posts: 1107
Belleville, Michigan, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
So quick to pass judgment on such a nice and useful site, I bet if you ask you can get 100% of your free back. He shoots...he scores!
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
VikyL wrote:
I'm right there with you, John. I've been a member of this site since October. In that time I've managed to shoot with...ONE photographer off this site. And it's not for lack of trying. They don't respond. They won't set a date. They don't show up. Email song and dance. Meanwhile, I'm booking paid gig after paid other ways (Craig'slist bizzarely, photographers I've worked with before, a casting director I freelance with, friends I have in the magazine industry). OMP was the same way for me: I got a billion "Desire to work with" messages, but they never went anywhere, and I eventually deleted myself from that site.
Why am I still here? I love the message boards. I resigned myself to the fact that I will never get to shoot with any of you, but you sure are fun to talk to. Well ... lets see if this works:
"I'm very interested in shooting B&W art/nude ( part of a series ) with you, TFP.
I think we can do some great creative work together. I'm looking forward to
hearing from you
Louis"
*Like 99% of so called models here I might NEVER get a reply from you ..
*Like 99% of so called models here you might say "sorry, no nudes" although
your bio do NOT say that ..
*Like 99% of so called models here will say "no TFP" although their bio
states they accept TFP ..
PS: . I've shot some great '1% models' here.. I should say
Model
Jeri Lynn Astra
Posts: 240
Pleasantville, New York, US
I'm here because I love to model. I meet photographers, I set up shoots, I model. Sometimes I get paid, sometimes I meet someone really cool. Doing what I love is never a waste of time.
Of course it's frustrating when things don't go the way I'd like them to- dates don't get set up, I never hear back from someone, etc. But I've yet to find an area in life where things go perfectly one hundred percent of the time, and sometimes they even have to kind of suck until I find my groove and get things rolling.
Photographer
John Ricard photography
Posts: 38
New York, New York, US
bob cooley wrote:
I didn't see anyone make this point, so I'll add this...
Okay, This is pretty much the same thing as having a local comany send out an assignment offer to a bunch of photogs on MM (or OMP, or Pbase, etc etc). that states:
"We would like you to come out to our facility and spend half the day shooting images for our company - There is no pay, and we can do whatever we want with the photos (including sell them, use them in our advertising with no further compensation or credit to you, post them on websites, and pretty much anything we want to do with them). We will give you a copy of your images on CD, but since they are going to be used commercially elsewhere, you really won't be able to use them for anything except selp-promotion."
What level of professionalism and talent do you think this company is going to recieve in reply?
Same thing applies here. You are looking for professionalism with an offer that is only going to attract wannabes and new models who don't know any better, or who aren't going to respond like a professional model would.
Professionalism costs money (because a professional expects to be compensated, for both their time, as well as the skills and professionalism they bring to the table).
You would not accept less from someone who hires you; so why do you expect less from other professionals?
Cheers!
/bob Great post with great points.
Photographer
SoloPoint
Posts: 65
Parkland, Washington, US
Maybe it is because I am mew, but I use multiple e-mails to come up with ideas for the shoot. I am not real quick on my feet, so it may take me a month to come up with a worthy idea. I love a casual chat until something clicks. I might be looking for a horse shoot, but doi not expect everyone to have access to horses. One day in casual chat she may mention that she went riding over the weekend. Bam! We have a shoot.
Model
Amouriette
Posts: 47
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
No! This site is definitely NOT a waste of time, in my opinion anyway  I thikn people here are absolutely fabulous, and I have received so much advice from models and photographers alike. These guys in MM are so pro and I really admire everyone here in this community (sometimes I also envy them too  ) And aside from maybe 1 or 2 grumpies, everyone truly helps newbies (me, lol) and are very caring. I also love that people share their own experiences and some take the extra step of telling you more in letter writing about certain modelling advice.
Photographer
Genell Canty
Posts: 159
Baltimore, Maryland, US
I've been able to work with a lot of cool people off of here...MM is a waste of time when I start reading all of the forums and checking my messages over and over again. Good night everyone =~]
Photographer
Josh Separzadeh
Posts: 116
Venice, California, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
I joined this site about a month ago and so far, its been a big waste of time. Typically it goes like this... I browse the model pages until I find a model that may be suited for a project that I am working on. I send an email to the model with breif details about the project and about myself and I ask the model to CALL if he or she is interested.
If a model does not respond, that is fine with me and I do not contact the model again.
However, if a model IS interested, I would expect the model to call so I can provide full details about the project. However, instead of a phone call, I get email responses like, "I am very interested."
I guess at that point I'm supposed to send ANOTHER email??!!? and we're supposed to go back and forth day after day? I guess some people think model mayhem is another name for My Space. I'm not looking for email pen pals -just models for legitimate projects.
Why any model would be "interested" in a project but NOT call to secure a spot as part of that project is totally beyond me...
If you'd like to see a sample of 4 email responses that are typical of the sort of responses I've gotten from this site, visit this link:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7795/mm4jz.jpg Yeah,
Im gonna have to disagree, I've found some amazing models on here that have been willing to work for me for tfp where i wouldnt be able to find anywhere else, i guess i've been really lucky.
Photographer
Raven Photography
Posts: 2547
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Actually I only recently joined this site and it has helped me tremendously. Learning from other photographers and models mistakes and helping others where I can.
I sent 5 emails to 5 models saying I was looking to hire a model whom I would be paying and I literally got a reply from one model before sending all of my 5 messages. And since she answered first she got the job. 3 photo shoots and she's a wonderful model too.
I then had 3 other replys from models to my other messages with models interested but had to let them down since I had a model. Although I have placed one model as a back up just in case my first one can't make it or something happens and she was happy to be my back up. Which I'm grateful for.
I have had times before I came onto this site where trying to find a good but reasonably priced model was almost non existent but just keep at it John and you will get models. Like me you just need to have patience and persistance and if one model isnt interested then move to another.
Model
Casanova
Posts: 16
Craig Thomson wrote:
So quick to pass judgment on such a nice and useful site, I bet if you ask you can get 100% of your free back. I, NINJA KITTY, DECLARE HIM TO BE RIGHT! DO NOT DISAGREE OR FEEL THE WRATH OF THE KITTY CLAW!!! DO NOT BE LAZY, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE AS LAZY AS THE KITTY!!! IF YOU SHOOT WITH NINJA KITTY, NINJA KITTY WILL FIND YOU, AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT CONTACTING THE PUSSY, BECAUSE ITS ALL ABOUT THE PUSSY!!!
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8842
Delphos, Ohio, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
I don't understand why you are justifying the model's behavior. I'm not "justifying" anything. You contacted the model, right? You are the first one to express an interest in working with the model - why should she trip over her boobs and clamor for your attention? I usually don't call models until after a period of email communication. Why jump right to the telephone call?
John Ricard photography wrote:
The model should "run up his/her phone bill" because the MODEL is the one who is asking to be considered for work. In your mind it makes perfect sense for a model to post her pictures online, write "I am looking to do photo shoots", and then after she is contacted by a legitimate photographer with a legitimate offer that she CLAIMS TO BE INTERESTED IN, she she should say, "You know on second thought, I don't want to run up my phone bill so I'm not going to call." Have you considered that there may be other factors at play? We all have different opinions about what constitutes a legitimate offer. Expecting telephone calls after one email message is a bit demanding.
John Ricard photography wrote:
That actually makes sense to you? It makes about as much sense as starting a thread to complain about it.
John Ricard photography wrote:
To make matters worse many models here are looking for TFP which means they do not spend money. You would take that to the extreme where the model doesn't even have to spend the money of making a phone call? Is there any other career in the world besides modeling that you can get into WITHOUT spending money? (Plumbers pay for tools, Driving Instructors buy cars, Cops buy their own uniforms and guns, Teachers pay for college education, etc). TFP does not mean that everything is "free". There are expenses for photographer and model alike. The issue has been debated to death on this forum - who spends the most money? Ultimately, you know the "nature of the beast", which leaves you with two options: keep trying or give up.
John Ricard photography wrote:
And as I've said here before, any model that is concerned about being "stalked" should NOT solict for work on the internet. And does it occur to you that she would have a better sense of whether a person was legitimate my making ONE phone call than she would in sending endless emails back and forth. Bullshit is just as easy to sell over the phone as over the Internet. I'm not saying that you sell bullshit - but these women have no way of knowing what kind of person you are from one email message. Very few women are going to willingly call you (or give you a telephone number) after one message.
Model
Ruby Spitfire
Posts: 227
Moberly, Missouri, US
someone has already said it, i'm just going to repeat: not everyone on this site is a professional. i'm not, and i have recieved a TON of messages along the lines of "hey i just got a new camera and i need some1 to take pix of". i'm sorry, but no... i am extremely uncomfortable talking to people on the phone who i don't know and i'd rather trade shoot ideas and such through email rather than burn up the prepaid minutes on my cell phone with someone who's portfolio is going down a completely different path than i want mine to go ::BREATH:: and as someone else has said, it's way easier to type a polite "no thank you" than it is to hang up on someone who doesn't get the point. fortunately i don't have to worry about the stalker who got my number from his caller id, my cell phone has a blocked number
Photographer
Greg Rice
Posts: 550
Saint Peters, Missouri, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
So quick to pass judgment on such a nice and useful site, I bet if you ask you can get 100% of your free back. Acctualy Craig time = money so yes the site may be free but to invest time into the site and get nothing worthwhile back is a waste of time/money
Photographer
Greg Rice
Posts: 550
Saint Peters, Missouri, US
bob cooley wrote:
John,
I'll take a stab at this one;
I'm guessing that part of the problem is that your outgoing emails look like they are cut and paste/general offers. You mention nothing personal about the model in your initial contact (why you chose her specifically, why you think she would be specifically good for this assignment, etc.).
Since your email looks pretty generic, models are probably hesitant to make a phone call and reveal their phone number to a totally unknown (to them) person. It may take another round of emails back to show that you are actually interested in them as individuals, and not just sending a casting call for which they may never get selected.
It's not a problem of it being ModelMayhem, or OMP, or MuseCube, etc. These websites are only tools. If you aren't getting the results you desire from the tool, then you usually need to adjust your strategy on how to use that tool.
I have a (roughly) 80% return rate on my emails and castings that I do online. The reason being is that I make sure the talent/model has been actively using their portfolios (I won't send to a model who hasn't updated her port in over a month), and then I read their portfolios to see what makes them specifically suited to my assignment. When they read I'm actually interested in THEM as a model (and not just an interchangeable girl), I have a much higher rate of success.
My clients are also much happier, as I have provided a range of models who I have justified as being relevant to their product, and not just another pretty place-holder.
It's a people business, and the more you know about the people you are working (and propose working) with, the more success you will have.
my 2 pence,
/bob I will agree with this I think you hit it on the head
Photographer
Greg Rice
Posts: 550
Saint Peters, Missouri, US
Yuka wrote:
I have had photographers contact me without leaving a phone number, so I will contact them with my email in the message. Then they will not answer. I have had photographers leave their phone number and then I call 3 or 4 times, leaving messages, and no answer. So it is not just models that do this, believe me.
I guess some people think that being professional only means looking beautiful or taking beautiful photos. I think being professional also means you do what you say you will do and don't waste time. The same for photograhpers and models.
-Yuka again I concur
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Greg Rice wrote:
Acctualy Craig time = money so yes the site may be free but to invest time into the site and get nothing worthwhile back is a waste of time/money Fine, then let the OP sit and do nothing and let the models appear at his studio and all this would have been avoided.
Next...
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17824
El Segundo, California, US
00siris wrote:
There's no way you can convice me that the internet is an easier way to contact people thatn telephone. To meet people - yes. Interesting. I'd go the other way--but I've spent 20+ years in computer fields where most of the communication and contact WAS via the 'net. Different schedules, different time zones, the ability to get the wording exact and have a record of it--all make it an effective tool.
...if both sides work that way.
Some models I only telephone. They have net access, but it's not what they do--days or weeks may pass between logins.
Others are much easier to contact by email, for the reasons I cited above.
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4159
Deming, New Mexico, US
So why do these models have to spend their money calling you when you want to shoot them?
Get a number if they will give it to you and call them.
Or let them get to know you better and then MAYBE they will give you a number.
Is this so hard to figure out? bs
Model
beadmistress
Posts: 160
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
if my comment is worth the super highway's time, I will say this: I ALWAYS contact the photographer a day BEFORE the shoot to ensure the scheduled session is still in progress as well if there is a cancellation. keep in mind the shoe is also on the other foot, I have contacted photographers or casting agents of projects that I am interested of becoming involved... as a professional model, I too would except the same professionalism - which is very far and few - the majority, I hardly receive a reply email, I'm lucky if I get a call. I stood on my soapbox
Photographer
John Ricard photography
Posts: 38
New York, New York, US
William Kious wrote:
John Ricard photography wrote:
I don't understand why you are justifying the model's behavior. I'm not "justifying" anything. You contacted the model, right? You are the first one to express an interest in working with the model - why should she trip over her boobs and clamor for your attention? I usually don't call models until after a period of email communication. Why jump right to the telephone call?
John Ricard photography wrote:
The model should "run up his/her phone bill" because the MODEL is the one who is asking to be considered for work. In your mind it makes perfect sense for a model to post her pictures online, write "I am looking to do photo shoots", and then after she is contacted by a legitimate photographer with a legitimate offer that she CLAIMS TO BE INTERESTED IN, she she should say, "You know on second thought, I don't want to run up my phone bill so I'm not going to call." Have you considered that there may be other factors at play? We all have different opinions about what constitutes a legitimate offer. Expecting telephone calls after one email message is a bit demanding.
John Ricard photography wrote:
That actually makes sense to you? It makes about as much sense as starting a thread to complain about it.
TFP does not mean that everything is "free". There are expenses for photographer and model alike. The issue has been debated to death on this forum - who spends the most money? Ultimately, you know the "nature of the beast", which leaves you with two options: keep trying or give up.
Bullshit is just as easy to sell over the phone as over the Internet. I'm not saying that you sell bullshit - but these women have no way of knowing what kind of person you are from one email message. Very few women are going to willingly call you (or give you a telephone number) after one message. If any of your concerns were of importance to the model all she or he would have to do is say, "I"m interested, however I'd like more information about you or the project before I call..." Instead the model has responded ONLY, "I am interested," and nothing more.
Please go back and look at the email samples I posted.
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7795/mm4jz.jpg
In the last of the 4 samples, the model says that the model is available for the shoot after 11am, and I respond, "if you're interested you should call there's not much point in writing emails back and forth like this." That one is from a GUY.
Since the guy has no way "of knowing what kind of person you are from one email message" maybe he thinks I'm going to rape him if he calls me.
Or maybe the guy just doesn't want to run up his phone bill as was suggested earlier in this thread.
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
John Ricard photography wrote:
I joined this site about a month ago and so far, its been a big waste of time. Typically it goes like this... I browse the model pages until I find a model that may be suited for a project that I am working on. I send an email to the model with breif details about the project and about myself and I ask the model to CALL if he or she is interested.
If a model does not respond, that is fine with me and I do not contact the model again.
However, if a model IS interested, I would expect the model to call so I can provide full details about the project. However, instead of a phone call, I get email responses like, "I am very interested."
I guess at that point I'm supposed to send ANOTHER email??!!? and we're supposed to go back and forth day after day? I guess some people think model mayhem is another name for My Space. I'm not looking for email pen pals -just models for legitimate projects.
Why any model would be "interested" in a project but NOT call to secure a spot as part of that project is totally beyond me...
If you'd like to see a sample of 4 email responses that are typical of the sort of responses I've gotten from this site, visit this link:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7795/mm4jz.jpg See my response to a similar issue under Do You Know How To Use A Phone?
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=34788
I don't understand why models don't call . They send emails saying they're interested . I send an email back with my phone number to discuss and then..... Silence .
In my profile I mention That I require a a contact number for consideration.. **Models MUST provide a contact number for consideration as I am willing to provide mine.***
Go figure ... BUT maybe that's the way to reject centain models. LOL
Model
Sxy6ftr
Posts: 108
Springfield, Virginia, US
How many days has this thread been going!!! I am sure that everything that could be said has been...
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That's ok 00siris, it really is a personal thing. Some people, particulary the younger generation, prefer to use internet or sms as their primary contact. It makes you wonder where we'll be 20 years from now - will anyone be actually talking to one another or will we have found a technology that does that for us too? Anyhow that's a bit off topic but I do understand what the tog that started this post is so annoyed.
I thikn people here are absolutely fabulous, and I have received so much advice from models and photographers alike. These guys in MM are so pro and I really admire everyone here in this community (sometimes I also envy them too 
) And aside from maybe 1 or 2 grumpies, everyone truly helps newbies (me, lol) and are very caring. I also love that people share their own experiences and some take the extra step of telling you more in letter writing about certain modelling advice. 
