Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If so - then is is hypocritical for such magazines to be sold in N America -when our own laws prohibit such ?

The point is that YOUR laws [US and Canada] DO NOT prohibit it.

Or... do the North American editions usually carry the same photos.

Studio36

Garry k wrote:
Well I dont know Jock Sturges to ask him such ...... but If what you are saying is true then what say would be the  difference between say his work and a $6.99  magazine availabe at your corner store - that would be filled with  underage models ,all nude , and all all posed in "non sexual poses " ie standing ... Following your argument - such a magazine  would be legal ?

The short answer is: "YES"

Studio36

Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If so - then is is hypocritical for such magazines to be sold in N America -when our own laws prohibit such ?

Garry, all I can say is:

"When in Rome . . ."

"You say to-may-toe, I say to-mah-toe
You say po-tay-toe, I say po-tah-toe . . ."

"East is East and West is West
Never the twain shall meet . . ."

Best Regards,
JAY

P.S.  What is specifically prohibited under U.S. law is pornographic material featuring underage models, NOT nudity per se involving said models . . .

Brian Diaz wrote:
Nudity does not equal sex.

Why can't people understand that?

thank you Brian!

CeJay wrote:
Age of consent is indeed 16 in the UK. However I think you'll find the laws for "topless" photos of models under 18 is now applicable.

Melissa - CJ's mum

That is NOT strictly true... the [UK] law [Protection of Children Act + revisons in the Sexual Offences Act (2003)] only covers INDECENT photos of U-18's, it does NOT bar photos of U-18's, nude, topless or otherwise, in any broader sense.

Studio36

Brian Diaz wrote:
Nudity does not equal sex.

Why can't people understand that?

Ched wrote:
Because they're sexually confused and it turns them on.

Guilty.

Fozzy wrote:

thank you Brian!

I asked to see a Spanish model's best picture, she showed me her Fozzy!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

JAY carreon wrote:

I asked to see a Spanish model's best picture, she showed me her Fozzy!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

what?

Decadence Fashion wrote:
I feel the main problem with displaying nude pictures of minors is the increasing number of petafiles (sic) in this country that aren't afraid to act on their desires.

TXPhotog wrote:
What evidence do you have that the number is increasing?

The number "appears" to increase every time "they" [both the government, and, non-governmental groups] re-define the nature of the pathology. The absolute % numbers per capita of real paedophiles [those genuinely pathologically interested in actual sexual relations with children] probably has not changed in 200 years.

It is not that there are more paedophiles today it's just that the goal posts for defining someone a paedophile have, and continue to be, moved.

One potentially revealing factoid is that the prisons and the psych treatment community often advance the claim that "paedophiles" that come into the system are difficult, if not impossible, to treat and rehabilitate. DUH!!! Could it be that some, many, or even most, of those so classified [by the legal system] are not true paedophiles in the first place? So, of course they can't be treated or rehabilitated.

Studio36

Fozzy wrote:
wow, i'm amazed of such knowledge about laws regarding nudity (do's and dont's).... are you lawyers?

Not lawyers... but as photographers we have to have a sense of the law as it affects our work in particular in whatever country we are working.

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:
For Brit readers....... don't mind Fozzy, "He's from Barcelona." 

Studio36

i guess there's something i must have missed because I don't know what you're talking about... sorry
Do you mean spaniards are outlaws?

JAY carreon wrote:
I asked to see a Spanish model's best picture, she showed me her Fozzy!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Fozzy wrote:
what?

Dear Fozzy,

We're not picking on you - you're our favorite photographer from Spain!  We are not laughing at you, we are laughing near you.

Best Regards,
JAY

Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If so - then is is hypocritical for such magazines to be sold in N America -when our own laws prohibit such ?

our laws do not prohibit this ~

didnt feel like reading so many pages to see if this was mentioned..

Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If so - then is is hypocritical for such magazines to be sold in N America -when our own laws prohibit such ?

We do it all the time in Italy.
We take  US girls there and shoot them.
We have pizza and beer after the shoot.

EL

JAY carreon wrote:

JAY carreon wrote:
I asked to see a Spanish model's best picture, she showed me her Fozzy!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Dear Fozzy,

We're not picking on you - you're our favorite photographer from Spain!  We are not laughing at you, we are laughing near you.

Best Regards,
JAY

i wasn't thinking anyone was pulling my leg, and wow... that's really nice! thank you!

Fozzy wrote:
i guess there's something i must have missed because I don't know what you're talking about... sorry
Do you mean spaniards are outlaws?

No, the line is from an old Brit TV sitcom. Brits will "get it".

It's nothing bad.

Studio36

Fozzy wrote:
Fawlty Towers maybe? I loved it and all the Monty Python's stuff

Yup... Faulty Towers and the line, "He's from Barcelona" refers to Manuel... but Manuel was always a lot sharper, and on the ball, than Basil ever gave him credit for being.

Studio36

Billy Pegram wrote:
Check out the beutiful books by David Hamilton...I have seen them in many books stores with a fine art photography section.

I have one of his books. It's actually sitting on an end table in my living room. I think his work is incredible and beautiful.

But I've had people got on tangents about how immoral his photography style is, for using young, underage models.. at least they're underage by American standards.

Iris Swope wrote:
Does it offend you? or do you find it morally wrong? (because you know, morals are not allowed here)

Thanks to you, we're gonna get our magazines with blacked out pages, like Iran does...Thanks alot!

I would appreciate it if you DIDN'T INSULT IRAN. It happens to be my country or origin. Use another country to poke fun at or don't name any at all.

Tabatha Miami wrote:
European standards are different than ours. Many things they find acceptable there are looked down upon in the US. Perhaps it is due to our own immaturity as a Nation whereby we're overly excited by sexual stimulation.  Perhaps it is due to various bans which create heightened curiosity.  I have no problem with the underage photos of models in other countries. It is acceptable in those countries and no laws are being broken. The problem is of course, when those materials are brought into the US where we practice difference laws and have certain restrictions...Not sure if they should be openly sold here. Unless they change the packaging/labeling to fit U.S Standards...

What is specifically prohibited under U.S. law is pornographic material featuring underage models, NOT nudity per se involving said models . . .

And WOW, you're hot!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Garry k wrote:

Thanks to me what ??? ..( and for that matter , What the F ...)  Before you declare  war on me ,launch into some good ole Amerikan  anti muslim rhetoric( bizarre )   and pull the trigger let me just  say ...

I dont really have an opinion one way or another

Its just a subject to talk about - you know ....

Is such discussion "aloud " ( sic ) by yourself?

Why are you concerned about the law in the US when you live in Canada?  How would your country react to the situation you described?

Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If so - then is is hypocritical for such magazines to be sold in N America -when our own laws prohibit such ?

Trying to apply Puritan standards to European thinking?

IIRC, I heard that the covers and content of some editions (for US market) are different  in some cases.

BTW... at 19, you are not "underaged" in the US!

Garry k wrote:
Should underage fashion models ( ie 15- 19 yrs ) be posing topless or nude for European Fashion Magazines such as Vogue ....( Italian , French etc )

If it's legal over in europe, are they in fact under age??
USA laws are screwed up.
Here in Michigan, the legal age for consentual sex is 16. but if I took a picture of the same 16 yr old, even full clothed, and it was shot in a manor to sexually arouse,
I could be arrested for child porn.
I stay away from Minors unless their parents are tighted to my hip.

CeJay wrote:

Age of consent is indeed 16 in the UK. However I think you'll find the laws for "topless" photos of models under 18 is now applicable.

Melissa - CJ's mum

This is correct, a new raft of laws brought in by the government due as a knee jerk reaction to media pressure without any real thought. It could now be illegal to photograph an under 18 person (female) with their boobs showing. However, it is still legal for that same female to get married and have children but if her husband takes topless photos of her on the beach then he MAY be open to prosecution. Again it is left to the courts to decide if the line has been crossed. Therefore many photographers in the UK would not want to be the first test case and thereby refuse to work with under 18's for any style of shoot that May be deemed questionable.

Cspine wrote:
The good of the many is more important to me. I would rather see 2 photographers wrongly accused of kiddy porn than see one kiddy porn person go free to victimize more kids.

I would have to take strong exception to that portion of your statement.  I think I know where you are coming from, but it's very wrong minded thinking to allow a prosecutor to charge anyone with a crime just to intimidate... and that portion of your statement would allow that.  That kind of intimidation is done every day in this country and is one of the reasons that we are slowly losing our freedoms... and unfortunately it is done in other areas as well (i.e. the so called patriotic act).

Shiva Photo wrote:
In Europe you are bound by the laws of that country.

There are many countries in Europe, they are not "states"

oldguysrule wrote:
what laws prohibit this?

I am trying to access your profile and I get this:
Unable to show profile #55764
This members is either awaiting approval or has removed their profile from the site.

Do you know what is the matter?

Decadence Dernier wrote:
I feel the main problem with displaying nude pictures of minors is the increasing number of petafiles in this country that aren't afraid to act on their desires.  It doesn't take sexual depiction to get them aroused.  With family members molesting and strangers raping children, it's understandable to see why our society has such a problem with nude minors. In the midst of all this, people wonder why a person would even want to take nude pictures of minors.  I know most of the people on "here" would see this as being beautiful, artistic and free, but in today's world no matter how artisticly well it's done its going to be seen as child pornography.

SO Art suffers beacause of a few idiots in society? If I could come up with a social based theme usine yuth for art nudes I would. There is an innicence evoked when anyonme is nude and photgrpahed. There is an openess and a mood tat is captured, a purity.

Nude baby shots are the cutest because they are nude. They represent a part of our life cycle that is telling and nostalgic.

Samne goes for any part of the human life cycle. As tenn we go through transitions and growth. As a phorgrapher and an artist I can see the value of art nudes using teens from that stand point alone. I am sure there are many other concepts as well.

Sad, that a few bad apples in a society have cause such a stir over the human form.
Damn, this thread is old...lmao

JAY carreon wrote:

What is specifically prohibited under U.S. law is pornographic material featuring underage models, NOT nudity per se involving said models . . .

And WOW, you're hot!

JAY carreon

PHOTOGRAPHER

SPANK YOU!  (blushing)  :-)