MN Photography wrote:
I had no idea that there is apparently of culture of photographers who seem to feel as if it is a basic human right that models should pose for them without being paid.  Sorry if I am naive, but I would think that market forces would play a larger part in the equation.  If a model can get her schedule filled with paid work, There isn't much incentive to offer to do TF shoots.  No incentive actually.

William Steel wrote:

probably worried that he might end up shooting bees and flowers without TFP models

Crystal Perido wrote:
probably worried that he might end up shooting bees and flowers without TFP models

Who would you rather be?

Aesthetic Photoworks wrote:
What are your thoughts on the increasing number of models having this on their profiles:



Do you even care ? Do you take it as an insult ?

Discuss

Who created this banner/logo?  Let me know, and I will discuss it with them and get back to you.

But for now, I just take it as they don't want to work with me unless I am paying them.  Even though they don't know me.  And I don't really care too much about it.

Aesthetic Photoworks wrote:
What are your thoughts on the increasing number of models having this on their profiles:



Do you even care ? Do you take it as an insult ?

Discuss

the same way i feel about the increasing amount of photographers with it on their profile

next

BYS wrote:
tfp ? never heard of it except on MM

My father isn't on MM but he knows what it is. He's an amateur photographer

Aesthetic Photoworks wrote:
What are your thoughts on the increasing number of models having this on their profiles:

Do you even care ? Do you take it as an insult ?

It's a little too "in your face."  If someone has tons of graphics all over their profile (no matter what they say) I lose interest. But I'm certainly not insulted.  They can do what they want.

MO Rina wrote:
I have turned down paid work from a photographer who displays this on his profile.

I wouldn't want people to see my images in his portfolio and think I paid him to shoot.

*snicker*

Dizeman wrote:
If you run into someone who knows me and it's not all that hard to do, ask them if I am the kind of person who makes shit up or lies or NEEDS TO.


But for the record, I've stood behind a ROPE twice in my life. Both times shooting for a Magazine/Newspaper. Oh... at Edwards AFB we also had a rope, but it was to keep us from getting killed. Three times in my life.

Well, unfortunately, I can't ask someone who knows you because, despite your insistence that you are extremely well-known as a photographer, no one here seems to know you, so all we have is what you've written.  You wrote that you "shot for" President Bush.  To me, that implies that you were commissioned to take photos of/for the President of the United States.

While standing on a rope-line (at Edwards AFB  or elsewhere) and shooting candid press snapshots of the President, going about his business, is --and can be-- a respectable profession, one would generally say that they "shot for U.S.A. Today" or "shot for the Miami Herald" or "shot for the New York Times"  - rather than "shot for the President of the United States" in such a situation.  The way you wrote it implied that the President of the United States was a paying client of yours.

As I indicated earlier, THAT type of client-base would certainly alter your opinion on TF* photo shoots and would certainly alter our impression of your thoughts on TF* photo shoots.

I'm sure you have had a very impressive and fun & excitement -filled career as a photo-journalist and/or Papparazzo, but giving a client list that includes two former U.S. Presidents, when I presume neither President ever heard of you or sat for you, is a bit disingenuous and calls into question the remainder of your post and the remainder of your "client list."

If I were to write "I shot the Police" I would not be totally inaccurate. I brought a camera with me when I went to see the Police in concert at both the Meadowlands and Madison Square Garden.  However, "I shot the Police" would be an inaccurate and misleading statement (although possibly a great Ice Cube rap lyric) as I was not afforded private access to the band and did not have an opportunity to bring lighting or set up shots.  I, along with thousands of other people were afforded an opportunity to take photos of public figures in a public setting.  I do NOT get to include the Police on my client list or list of impressive people I know/have shot.

Of course, had I actually called Sting up and asked him if he'd stop by the studio for some shots  - and he agreed - well, then I'd probably have a VERY different outlook on TF* work and would be in a far better position to demand payment for every shoot I do.

OH, . . .and . . .

SPRINGHEEL wrote:
I don't give a shit

Stephen Markman wrote:
*something stupid*

My lawyer will be in touch

Faith EnFire wrote:

the same way i feel about the increasing amount of photographers with it on their profile

And that is .....?

Nedah Oyin wrote:

OR they aren't in need of improvement portfolio-wise at all and simply keep modeling fulltime because they enjoy it..?

Everyone needs TLC for their portfolio, unless you become published up the ass and make a household name for yourself. And even then, it's give and take. You don't get to decide whether your port looks awesome. Other people decide if it needs work or not.

Step Above Photos wrote:
After long consideration I have decided no longer to do TFP. From this day forward I will only do Collabortion Shoots or Paid Shoots.

For those models that are interested I am now open to doing Collabortion Shoots with you.

Either you're misspelling "collaboration" or you're into something really weird.

Brooks Ayola wrote:
My problem with the logo is that whoever created it didn't know what they were doing.. The shadow should be softer the further away from the graphic you go. Among other shitty graphic design decisions.

Plus the quoted statement is missing the credit.

Moore Photo Graphix wrote:

Dizeman wrote:
Once again...

What is impossible for me to understand is why models imagine the photographer's time has no value whatsoever?

Because not every model is right for a photographer and vice versa. If you don't have something of value for the model, they'll take their business elsewhere. It's just like shopping. If a store doesn't have what you need, you find another that does.

Dizeman wrote:
I have to wonder why the concept of paying a model for his or her time is expected when paying the photographer for his or her time is somehow unexpected? It just baffles smart people.

It boils down to this! who needs the pictures more pays up!


It's clear you're not familiar with economics, MM style. If you need the pictures more than the model, you pay them. For a model to pay for your services, you must have something that can't be obtained via the trade. If you don't have it, then your establish rates offer will fall on deaf ears.


When's the last time you saw Tom Brady or Peyton Manning play an Arena Football or Canadian Football game? When the last time you saw Lebron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in an NBA D-League game? Can you name one race in AMA Supercross where Valentino Rossi was a participant? If you answered no to those questions, then you claim of those models seeking trade shoots is false. Those names you dropped are on a different level than the models on this website, and the work with people on a different level. As I said before, people are this website for different reasons, and people have different ideas what is important to them. Instead of wasting your time trying to make people feel guilty for their actions, focus your actions on figuring what they need and how can get them closer to that goal. As the late John Wooden once said, Put the right of others ahead of your concern, and the concern of others ahead of your own rights.

+1 to everything you posted in response to Dizeman.  Higher level models, such as Lily Donaldson, Agyness Deyn, Sasha Pivovarova, Caroline Trentini, Gemma Ward, don't have time for TF.  They barely have enough time day to day for their house shoots. 

As for your credited accomplishments Mr. Dize, I can't find anything about you anywhere other than your Myspace page.  In fact, I tried searching for you specifically in regards to various mags and still found nothing.  Bill Ingles, a family friend, has no recollection of you.

Could you point us to some links to back up your claims please?

Also, did you start at age 18 or 19. 

Dizeman wrote:
A professional photographer since the age of 19, I have been very fortunate in life... 

My photographic images and feature stories/editorials have appeared 1,180 times...

(your profile)

Dizeman wrote:
I have been published 1,188 times in 80 magazines...
I have been published 1.880 times in numerous magazines, newspapers...
I worked as a portrait, commercial and editorial photographer from the age of 18 to 2000...

Taken from your posts here and your "bios" elsewhere. 

Am I the only one confused here?

Dizeman wrote:
Okay, enough of this silliness. Some guys actually get erections arguing in chat rooms and I know I don't have any interest in that either, so those who want to talk with me...

I would guess some people also get erections name dropping every chance they get and bragging about how wonderful they are.

Andrew Koenig wrote:

Either you're misspelling "collaboration" or you're into something really weird.

I knew that I should have been using my glasses. Missed that. Thanks.

BYS wrote:
tfp ? never heard of it except on MM

I went to photography school in the mid-1960s and we had TFP then...

Dizeman wrote:
I was contracted by Eugene Cernan and Astronautics International the Post Flight PR Company that handled Post Flight PR for NASA Space Shuttle Mission STS-26, the Discovery Orbiter.

I was one of TWO STAFF Photographers assigned to travel with and photograph Astronauts Rick Hauk, Dick Covey, Mike Lounge, George Pinky Nelson and David Hilmers.

Because this mission was the first mission in space directly after Challenger blew up, this was a very special mission.

We had protocol sessions at in Las Vegas and were issued Secret Service Creds to travel with George Bush Sr. over a two day period. I was in Point Car 1 and my charge was to photogarph Bush and Nauts on their way in and out of the motorcade.

You can play this game all you want, NO! I was not Paparazzi on the Discovery mission I was one of two staff photographers.

Sounds like a memorable experience that very few will have the chance of partaking in.  Can you share some photos of that experience?  That would be cool to see.

Re: the OP - I'm not really far along in my photography journey to have a profound opinion on this aspect but personally, I just move along when I see it.  Especially when there are many other profiles who A) don't have anything expressed or B) express it without the use of a logo.

Aesthetic Photoworks wrote:
What are your thoughts on the increasing number of models having this on their profiles:



Do you even care ? Do you take it as an insult ?

Discuss

I should not judge them, perhaps they have a valid reason for doing that. But my knee jerk reaction is to think of them as obnoxious copy cats..
I would skip to the next profile.

K h o t o g r a p h y wrote:
I try avoid obnoxious people.  That pic is obnoxious.

Yup, so thank all of them for the banner and warning ;-)

Dizeman wrote:
Well, I suspect you read the parts you wanted to read for the SNARK FEST to follow, but if you read my bio, at least I think it is in the bio, that was written awhile ago and updated, but...

I worked as a portrait, commercial and editorial photographer from the age of 18 to 2000 when I caught pneumonia shooting Troy and Laura Herbst's Wedding... you may not know who Troy is, but you may have heard of his dad's company Terrible Herbst Oil?

I was sick in bed for a month with pneumonia and a very high temperature and nearly died  from that temperature which  at one point reached 105+.

When I recovered I was faced with going back to work in my Green Valley studio and I decided I had spoken photography, shot photography, taught photography, every word anyone talked to me about was photography, my day was all about photography, my nights were about darkrooms and planning for the next day shoots.

I called it the PIZZA SYNDROME where you eat pizza every day for 27 years anytime anyone talked to you, they talked about PIZZA and when they wanted to take you out, you went out to get PIZZA until I had become TIRED OF PIZZA!

So when I thought about going back into the studio... I thought... ENOUGH WITH THE PIZZA, I decided to take a break from photography and that break lasted nearly SEVEN YEARS!

I sold every camera I had, four Haseelblad systems, FIVE RB67 Systems and five Nikon cameras and assorted lenses, including studio lights, EVERYTHING and closed my studio.

I bought EIGHT fireproof filing cabinets and filed every one of the 1.6 million Kodachrome 64 slides and 83,000 VPS 120 Negatives, my intentions were to never deal with them again, but to leave them for my son. The Cabinets were silica gel'd and sealed.

My son at 23 years old nagged on me, two of my former clients kept asking me to do some work for them and after a year of this nagging, I decided to pick up a camera again. This time, it was DIGITAL.

There are MANY photos I have taken that will not appear on webpages. I shot as the primary shooter for Dresser Wayne Industries for three years, they built gas pumps one part at a time in front of me and I shot three frames of every part, the object was to have photos as guides for the mechanical art to be created later.

I was the primary shooter for Frank Perdue Poultry, I never got to keep those images they were work-for-hire, but the 40x60 print that hung behind Frank's desk the last 15 years of his life, I shot.

Sorry! I guess that fact that I cannot produce any Frank Perdue photos to somebody on MM means I did not really do that work. In fact, there are no photos taken of me over a 20 year period. I guess in the logic of some, I did not exist for those 20 years either.

My bio explains a PORTION of my life, not all, but a portion, there's not a lie on the document.

If you run into someone who knows me and it's not all that hard to do, ask them if I am the kind of person who makes shit up or lies or NEEDS TO.

We're not going to play ping pong with this... I am 56 years old, I am not new to this little game.

I've learned some will argue if you say you have a size 13 shoe, they want to see the shoe. I just don't have as much time for that bullshit as I once did.

Believe what you want, piss on the rest... I just don't care all that much.


But for the record, I've stood behind a ROPE twice in my life. Both times shooting for a Magazine/Newspaper. Oh... at Edwards AFB we also had a rope, but it was to kee

I thought the thread was about tf* banners, now how awesome Dizeman is.

Dizeman wrote:
If you run into someone who knows me and it's not all that hard to do, ask them if I am the kind of person who makes shit up or lies or NEEDS TO.

Be careful what you ask for - I have talked to someone who knows you, and he pretty much said the exact opposite of that statement. He also used the word "pompous" in there as well.

Greg Kolack wrote:

Be careful what you ask for - I have talked to someone who knows you, and he pretty much said the exact opposite of that statement. He also used the word "pompous" in there as well.

Oh leave Dizeman alone already.  If someone wants to post a bunch of messages on an internet forum telling us that his opinions carry more weight because he is just fucking fabulous, then I will accept that at face value.

At least he isn't telling people that he is an economics professor.

Crystal Perido wrote:

probably worried that he might end up shooting bees and flowers without TFP models

I like shooting bees and flowers, and if push came to shove I would choose the bees.

And why is this thread still going on?

AJScalzitti wrote:
I can't believe there are so many people who think photographers hire models, the client is supposed to pay us both.  We are both part of the creative side not customer/employer.  Many on MM would be more successful if they spent more time on that idea then putting up tacky graphics in their profile.

Again, it depends on who the model is and what the photos will be for.  I do mostly shoots where I get paid and then TF shoots after that.  I have also done shoots where I pay the model.  I once paid a model $300 to do a shoot and probably got about six or seven thousand dollars in print sales out of it.  I would like to do that about three times a week.

Modeling and photography are not commodities.  There are too many variations.