Robert Lynch wrote:
What, exactly, is he deeply worried about and why?  What is it about the possibility of you doing glamour work that troubles him so much?

well considering his mother had an affair and his ex cheated on him...he's worried that should i enter a competition like the one i mentioned previously, i'd be trying to publicise myself for votes or something for example, and would cheat on him. also i put all of my modelling pictures on my facebook and he doesn't want assholes and people like my exes 'doing' anything with them..i'm HIS girlfriend, and to be honest i don't particularly want anyone perving over me either! so i try and keep my modelling as fresh, clean and pure as possible

Kate Q wrote:
maybe all these things i'm doing are terrible mistakes! but they are mine to make

i've learnt before, but if i don't make these mistakes i'll never learn...i wanna live!

Tiffany Crystal wrote:
edit: this is just a bored, curious about other peoples experiences thread.

My family is very very VERY conservative. I only really talk to my mom so she is the one expressing her disgust with the "porn" I create. Please look at my portfolio. I shoot glamour-not porn-and rarely nudes.

I LOVE what I do, I am very happy in my career and personal life. I am young and enjoying it. I do love my family but am extremely annoyed by this constant overbearing critique.

I am not going to change ANYTHING about my life.

Having been through your portfolio I can't see any porn just sensual shots of you showing off your sexy body. Your family is going overboard.

Kate Q wrote:
well considering his mother had an affair and his ex cheated on him...he's worried that should i enter a competition like the one i mentioned previously, i'd be trying to publicise myself for votes or something for example, and would cheat on him. also i put all of my modelling pictures on my facebook and he doesn't want assholes and people like my exes 'doing' anything with them..i'm HIS girlfriend, and to be honest i don't particularly want anyone perving over me either! so i try and keep my modelling as fresh, clean and pure as possible

Some day, when you are working as a counselor, come back and read what you just wrote.  There are giant red flags.

In the mean time, best of luck to you with modeling, your career and your boyfriend.  May you find happiness wherever you look for it. 

Nico Simon Princely wrote:
I've never seen such FILTH! ;o)

I have found that Families especially mothers are the #1 cause of problems and stress inmost people lives. That's certainly been the case in mine. Parents push their children away...but trying to judge them and control them.

He a rule I have always followed.

Consider the source of the advice, do they have the life you want or the results in the area of life were that the advice is being given about? If not don't listen.

Few people have parents that are worth listening to. If you do then you're lucky.

Nice port by the way.

I know I am a naughty naughty girl But thank you for the compliment. And for the advice. My mother's life is nothing like mine or what I want. Thanks for pointing that out

Crystal Perido wrote:
The line between glamour nude and porn is thin

Oh bullshit. Keep trolling will ya?

Jeff Fiore wrote:
Well I'm a perv who exploits women, shoot porn and have sex with young model whores. Well, at least that is what some of my family thinks.

Yep, I ignore them too.

Yeah, knowing what some of them think (or say) about the models ... I'm sure that they think that of me too.  They just don't have the nerve to say it!  It's funny that it seems more like it's the men in my family that don't get it.  I think they are jealous!

My mom is understanding and loves the women I introduce to her!  She says that when she was in high school, that she liked wearing make up but some kids would tease her calling her a "painted lady" or a "hooker!"   I don't like using Photo Shop so sometimes the make up is a bit heavy.

Tiffany Crystal wrote:

i want to come to your shoots!!! hanging out with a bunch of prostitutes, sounds fun! score for you

Tiffany, I've got you on my "favorites" list!  I've been to Florida, but it seems you might be coming out to the Bay Area, California!   Would love to have you at a shoot ... in front of the camera!

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
I spent most of my life not having a "real job" and leading a life debauchery according to my late mom.....

One day I told her..."how would you know what 'good' is if you don't have 'bad' to compare it too?"......made her stop and think...and stop bugging me!

She did outgrow that old notion after seeing some of the checks I was pulling down not having "a real job"....and we became best of friends.

hang on to mom....you will miss her greatly when she is gone....I miss mine everyday!

I've gone through life doing things I enjoy and will work hard at for a little money rather than working hard at something I hate but would make lots of money doing.  My mom is actually the most understanding person in my family because her dad (my grandpa) was a photographer on an Indian reservation in the early 1900's.

The men in my family (my brothers) are macho, nose to the grind stone, blue collar, physical labor type of men.   They might partake in some music or arts, but it's just a hobby!   "Real men don't make a living playing sports, acting, doing any of the arts, and especially performing music!"  "That's not men's work!"   Those are the things I'd hear.  Yet .. for "Fun!"  I work around the ranch driving tractor or getting up on the barn roof to make repairs, and I sure as hell am the best auto mechanic in my family!  That is not stuff I want to make my living doing though!

The women in my family enjoy that I'm a photographer.  Not many "religious" types or conservatives ... just a few in my family are that way.  I just sort of ignore them, let them preach, and be done with it!  You are absolutely right on about enjoying ones parents while they are alive!  No one lives forever!

Marianne Michaela wrote:

dump him.

Yup!  Unless you intend to stop modeling it will always be a serious point of contention. There is no way that the two of you can both be at peace on the issue.

Tiffany Crystal wrote:
edit: this is just a bored, curious about other peoples experiences thread.

My family is very very VERY conservative. I only really talk to my mom so she is the one expressing her disgust with the "porn" I create. Please look at my portfolio. I shoot glamour-not porn-and rarely nudes.

I LOVE what I do, I am very happy in my career and personal life. I am young and enjoying it. I do love my family but am extremely annoyed by this constant overbearing critique.

I am not going to change ANYTHING about my life.

This is an issue that A LOT of folks in our industry deal with.  Whether it's our family, boyfriend / girlfriend / husband / wife, or BFF, most of the folks on this site will raise their hand if you were to ask "how many of you deal with this?"  and tell you their stories.  It's a tough situation to be in because as artists, we are passionate about the photos we create and would love nothing more than to have those very people in our lives be supportive and involve themselves with us in some capacity.  On the other hand, those very people are our other passion in life, so their happiness is paramount to us as well.

I too was raised in a conservative / Christian family.  I love my family and I love my faith.  I remember when I took my first figure drawing class in college...as soon as the model disrobed, I immediately averted my eyes simply because of the way I was raised.  The idea of a stranger nude in front of me was shocking until one day, I had an epiphany; I was consumed with the "woah - there's a naked person in the room with me" from a socially acceptable standpoint, when I should be consumed with the "how can I emulate what I see into my work?" from an artistic standpoint.  From then on, I was 100% focused on being concerned with my lighting, shading, greyscale, materials, composition, rendering, etc.

I think that mediation is crucial for both us as creatives and everyone else in our lives.  At times, we as creatives can get so caught up in our work that we can forget how it can impact or marginalize our relationships with folks who we care about most - and that's not all.  By engaging in this type of work, it will also impact you on a professional level in terms of future employment if you so decide to get a "day job" that exists outside of modeling.  I know this from personal experience as well as heard it from fellow professional friends who have told me similar stories.  On the flip side, everyone else acts hypocritical in their judgement of your work.  For example, a lot of those same people who criticize us for our work subscribe to the Victoria's Secret catalogue.  I've had debates on this subject with a VS catalogue sitting on their coffee table in plain view and have asked them "so let me get this straight - you object to me taking sexy photos of models in lingerie or implied nudes because of reason X, Y, & Z - yet you subscribe to VS magazine and have no problem with your boyfriend / husband also viewing them and making comments about the girls?" and their response is always the same: "that's different - it's a catalogue with well known models and they're selling a product", to which I reply: "oh so it's considered 'socially acceptable' to subscribe to a magazine that contains photos depicting the exact same content as what I produce, but because they're a large, well known commercial entity that sells lingerie, it's deemed ok."  Now granted, this particular debate caters more to me since I enjoy emulating that style into my work, but we've all had similar cases.  Society fascinates me with these displays of dichotomy - ruling out judgements while justifying their own version of it, but I digress...

I guess the best advise I can give you, is stay true to yourself, but also remember that modeling isn't the end all / be all - there's much more that life has to offer and making certain compromises to ensure that you have a happy & bright future with those you love in the long term surely outweighs the short term self-fulfilling endeavors. 

-RP

Tiffany Crystal wrote:
edit: this is just a bored, curious about other peoples experiences thread.

My family is very very VERY conservative. I only really talk to my mom so she is the one expressing her disgust with the "porn" I create. Please look at my portfolio. I shoot glamour-not porn-and rarely nudes.

I LOVE what I do, I am very happy in my career and personal life. I am young and enjoying it. I do love my family but am extremely annoyed by this constant overbearing critique.

I am not going to change ANYTHING about my life.

You need to ask yourself why you are doing the type of shoots you're doing... because you should be able to explain it to your mother...  You could ignore her but she is your mother and explaining why you do what you do shouldn't be that hard, if you know yourself and what the reasons are. 

What you shoot doesn't look like porn to me but I can't view most of your photos without "Toggle Worksafe Mode off" and thats an indication that you go over the G rating.

Your mother knows that there are reasons why people shoot nudes, implied, glamor, whatever you want to call it...  and the reasons are pretty simple

1) for the money  (and if you're not making good money I wouldn't kid myself or try to kid my mother that this was the reason, If you are really making good money you will be living like you are without any debt)

2) You have a need for attention... True for many people, nothing to be ashamed of you just need to find out why and admit it... more for yourself then your mother

3) you just think the human form is beautiful and you want to beautify the world... Good try, not going to work with your mother...shes a woman and if shes you're mother shes at least 40 years old I would assume? shes not going to buy that.

the bottom line is, you need to know why you enjoy this kind of work and explain it to others because people in your life do deserve to know why something is important to you....this is part of having a good relationship with  others...its letting them in on the things that are important to you and why. 

keeping something private implies that you don't feel good about it, that adds to the suspicion your mother may have about what you're doing and why you're doing it...

Just be honest, tell everyone important to you what and why you do what you do...it will liberate you and all they can do is be honest about why they don't think you should do it... I would listen with respect and openly discuss their concerns. You are both adults.

nyk fury wrote:
it's called unsolicited critique. your mom needs to spend some time in the brig.

LOL...

Tiffany Crystal wrote:
Thanks

I actually am not very close to any of my family, and don't tell them anything. But just like when I was 13 and my mom said my "diary accidently fell open" she somehow finds things out. which is fine, i am proud of my work. and yes it it sexy, i LOVE being sexual. I just didn't know how to deal with her reaction. I have just been ignoring it.

Tiffany, your work is simply incredible. I've had the honor of meeting you and working with you.

Lady, with how you handled yourself during our shoot and the images you provided...you have every reason to be extremely proud of yourself.

Being confident within yourself (inside and outside) is the main key to being sexy.

You, Tiffany have these qualities.

I applaud you

Robert Lynch wrote:

Some day, when you are working as a counselor, come back and read what you just wrote.  There are giant red flags.

In the mean time, best of luck to you with modeling, your career and your boyfriend.  May you find happiness wherever you look for it. 

i'm sorry i just don't understand how it's so wrong, if the problem's barely even there..if a married model came on here and said her husband was concerned, no one would tell her to divorce him. i guess i'm just a bit hurt at the cynical attitudes

Swank Photography wrote:

Tiffany, your work is simply incredible. I've had the honor of meeting you and working with you.

Lady, with how you handled yourself during our shoot and the images you provided...you have every reason to be extremely proud of yourself.

Being confident within yourself (inside and outside) is the main key to being sexy.

You, Tiffany have these qualities.
 
I applaud you

Kate Q wrote:

i'm sorry i just don't understand how it's so wrong, if the problem's barely even there..if a married model came on here and said her husband was concerned, no one would tell her to divorce him. i guess i'm just a bit hurt at the cynical attitudes

A problem that is "barely there" will become magnified once you're married.  Some of us have no problem with nudity, and some of us do.   Insecurity doesn't just go away!   I'm sorry, but most people are cynical for a reason.  They don't know you, so don't take it personally.  Best wishes to you and your boyfrind!

Robert Lynch wrote:
This thread might be helpful to you:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=229525

One of the best MM threads EVER.

Mary wrote:

You need to ask yourself why you are doing the type of shoots you're doing... because you should be able to explain it to your mother...  You could ignore her but she is your mother and explaining why you do what you do shouldn't be that hard, if you know yourself and what the reasons are. 

What you shoot doesn't look like porn to me but I can't view most of your photos without "Toggle Worksafe Mode off" and thats an indication that you go over the G rating.

Your mother knows that there are reasons why people shoot nudes, implied, glamor, whatever you want to call it...  and the reasons are pretty simple

1) for the money  (and if you're not making good money I wouldn't kid myself or try to kid my mother that this was the reason, If you are really making good money you will be living like you are without any debt)

2) You have a need for attention... True for many people, nothing to be ashamed of you just need to find out why and admit it... more for yourself then your mother

3) you just think the human form is beautiful and you want to beautify the world... Good try, not going to work with your mother...shes a woman and if shes you're mother shes at least 40 years old I would assume? shes not going to buy that.

the bottom line is, you need to know why you enjoy this kind of work and explain it to others because people in your life do deserve to know why something is important to you....this is part of having a good relationship with  others...its letting them in on the things that are important to you and why. 

keeping something private implies that you don't feel good about it, that adds to the suspicion your mother may have about what you're doing and why you're doing it...

Just be honest, tell everyone important to you what and why you do what you do...it will liberate you and all they can do is be honest about why they don't think you should do it... I would listen with respect and openly discuss their concerns. You are both adults.

This post is so foolish, I'm not sure where to begin...

Kate Q wrote:

of course it isn't, it is clearly the opinion of someone DEEPLY worried. i know my boyfriend, he doesn't actually mean that lingerie/glamour = porn (you should see some of the stuff he used to watch..), when he says something to that effect, it's to try and put me off doing it. which he has no reason to because as i said before and as i have stated in my profile, i am NOT going to delve into those styles. i'm not going to lie, if he were to go and do something like....i don't know let's say for argument's sake weed, i'd list every possible negative thing about it in order to prevent him from doing it. i know deep down he'd never touch the stuff, but that won't stop me from still describing it in a very negative way if ever it comes up in conversation.
the way i see it is...for a fair amount of glamour/nude/whatever models, there are probably boyfriends/husbands/kids/families cringing. or worrying. whatever. there will always be someone there to disagree with your work, whether it's your 'possessive' boyfriend or that photographer on MM that thinks the lighting was pretty shit on that photo. it is not realistic to believe that there are no jealous or worried partners of models out there. perhaps you have had previous experiences or encounters of this nature, good for you. and perhaps i am making a mistake by not ending it with my boyfriend. maybe i shouldn't have even tried to start modelling, maybe all these things i'm doing are terrible mistakes! but they are mine to make. i'm sorry, but i just don't respond too well to people bluntly telling me to end the relationship with the guy who first got me to start modelling, thus helping to build what little self-esteem i had.

do you think you are the first model with a boyfriend like this? how many times do you think it has ended well? (also, comparing a boyfriend to some random photographer is kind of silly).

I say this from woman to woman: do not let your selfesteem be dependant on a guy. you basically say that he built your confidence, well, that also means he can take it away any second. do not give him that kind of power...

you are beautiful, there is no reason to believe you are not. if he loves you, he shouldn't bitch about how dangerous it is all the tie and try to scare you off doing things. he should be your biggest supporter. if he doesn't want you to do things, he should talk to you about it like an adult and you should find a solution together.

But the way you are explaining it now really sounds like a bullshit situation...

Kate Q wrote:
i'm sorry i just don't understand how it's so wrong, if the problem's barely even there..

That statement does not go with this one:

Kate Q wrote:
of course it isn't, it is clearly the opinion of someone DEEPLY worried.

Which is it?

Kate Q wrote:
a married model came on here and said her husband was concerned, no one would tell her to divorce him. i guess i'm just a bit hurt at the cynical attitudes

Yes, they would and have.  The issues here have absolutely nothing to with modeling or photography.  They are about a relationship where the insecurity of one person is causing them to attempt to control the life of the other person.  That rarely ends well.  Either he trusts you or he doesn't, but unless you have provided some legitimate reason to suspect your fidelity, you shouldn't be making excuses for his behavior towards you.  The issue won't go away just because you stop modeling.  Anything that you do that he feels will attract too much of the "wrong type" of attention to you will become an issue.

Going back and rereading your posts, I noticed this troubling statement:

Kate Q wrote:
he's not controlling at all, he's never actually TOLD me to do anything.

As if that were the only way to control someone, particularly someone who admits to having a lack of self confidence.

The cynical attitudes that you find hurtful are the result of years more experience at relationships than you have.  As I pointed out before, not a single person who has responded to you in this thread has done so with a positive outlook for your relationship.

Robert Lynch wrote:

Kate Q wrote:
i'm sorry i just don't understand how it's so wrong, if the problem's barely even there..

That statement does not go with this one:

Kate Q wrote:
of course it isn't, it is clearly the opinion of someone DEEPLY worried.

Which is it?
the problem isn't there because i DO NOT and WILL NOT do glamour modelling, he is just worried that i WILL. he's concerned that there will be a problem if i did. okay?

Kate Q wrote:
a married model came on here and said her husband was concerned, no one would tell her to divorce him. i guess i'm just a bit hurt at the cynical attitudes

Yes, they would and have.  The issues here have absolutely nothing to with modeling or photography.  They are about a relationship where the insecurity of one person is causing them to attempt to control the life of the other person.  That rarely ends well.  Either he trusts you or he doesn't, but unless you have provided some legitimate reason to suspect your fidelity, you shouldn't be making excuses for his behavior towards you.  The issue won't go away just because you stop modeling.  Anything that you do that he feels will attract too much of the "wrong type" of attention to you will become an issue.

i've been reading the forums for a long time and i haven't seen it. but still, even if a married model were to say that, isn't that a dramatic thing to advise? that she divorce her worried husband? and as i have said before my boyfriend loves that i model and loves coming to shoots with me. to be fair he started modelling with his dick out i'd be the first to complain, so i'm not bothered at all that he wouldn't want me to do the same with my boobs or whatever.
i know he trusts me because there are so many other parts of my life where he could be jealous, but isn't. i regularly go clubbing, with my group of guy friends. they're all straight and mostly single. my boyfriend doesn't come. and i've never heard him complain, does that sound jealous or controlling?
i'm sorry but i just don't like when someone on the internet's tried telling me things that 'will' happen to me, as if they know me and my life more than i do. i shall tell you first when the relationship ends and i am in the priory as a result of a jealous/controlling/possessive/whatever you think he is that'll cause my life to turn so shit.

Going back and rereading your posts, I noticed this troubling statement:

As if that were the only way to control someone, particularly someone who admits to having a lack of self confidence.

The cynical attitudes that you find hurtful are the result of years more experience at relationships than you have.  As I pointed out before, not a single person who has responded to you in this thread has done so with a positive outlook for your relationship.

okay, let me re-phrase.
he's not actually told me to do anything through our entire relationship
we have strong trust between us
if i want to do something, like model for example, as long as it's making me happy he encourages me. i don't know what glamour or nude modelling is regarded like in your area/age group/culture, but for a girl who's just turned 18, is still in college and living in a fairly quiet area, it's hard to do. most of the girls who try it in my age group or area, don't really see a postitive outcome. people in my area would regard them as common or a slut. that isn't to say that i feel that same way, i think most of the time it takes balls. but either way a bad reputation is usually the outcome. i could name a few models from here who've had that happen, who are on this site that i know fairly well. that's just the way it happens. at the end of the day, my dad would probably have the exact same reaction as him. i don't think he'd want to see his little girl topless modelling. he LOVES all the modelling that i do otherwise, and is always trying to help me by taking me to agencies or shoots or whatever. but no one would tell me to ditch my dad! as i said before and you agreed with, if modelling/being with my boyfriend is a mistake i WILL learn. if it's not then we'll all have a very merry christmas. but to be fair there's a lot worse things that could happen than the worse case scenario - me not glamour modelling, us splitting up, me maybe ending up glamour modelling or not anyway - it doesn't seem like a big deal. i've had a few awful relationships before, a million times worse than this. they didn't last obviously. if it's meant to be it'll be, if it's not it won't. but what you older people must understand, is that imperative responses like 'dump him' and telling me i'll have lots of problems are NOT what i, or any other 18 year old model wants to hear. it sounds like you're trying to sound like you've seen it all, and like if you were really trying to be helpful, you'd be sensitive and understand that saying that will upset a person. i'd appreciate and listen to your replies much more if they were something like 'okay, but just don't let him choose which modelling you do as it is YOUR project. don't let it become a problem.'

Lil Miss Jade wrote:
Im thinking Katie Q should start a thread and she can get lots of advice there lol  the OP's subject is going going gone(:

She's 18 years old and knows it all about adult relationships.

Lumigraphics wrote:

She's 18 years old and knows it all about adult relationships.

although i'm 18 and that's classed as an adult in my country, i don't actually think i know it all...i'm still in full time education, i just think i have a right to defend myself if i feel i'm being told off or dictated to!

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
I spent most of my life not having a "real job" and leading a life debauchery according to my late mom.....

One day I told her..."how would you know what 'good' is if you don't have 'bad' to compare it too?"......made her stop and think...and stop bugging me!

She did outgrow that old notion after seeing some of the checks I was pulling down not having "a real job"....and we became best of friends.

hang on to mom....you will miss her greatly when she is gone....I miss mine everyday!

+1

In some cases financial success is not as important to a parent as seeing that their children are happy, and that their actions won't affect their future careers or relationships.

This is one of those situations where you don't understand how a parent feels, until you are in their shoes.  It's really one of those situations where hypotheticals seem very obvious, but you have to experience it.  Having a pet is just not the same thing.

Extreme Body Art wrote:

In regards to the bolded statement...

What do you think modeling is?

Clothed/Lingerie/Nude/Swim/Pick your poison...

Men (or women) will look at ANY image you create and "oodle" over it...
Nudes really have nothing to do with it, If a man finds a woman a "sexual" being, he is going to look at it as such, clothed... or nude.

I don't understand why models think it's OK to be seen as sexual clothed, but not nude... I will never understand that.

Completely agreed. It's all up to the model's discretion how far he or she wishes to go.