La Zona Imagery  wrote:
I have a real job that allows me to afford camera gear, as well as pay for models for their talent.  I am not a "starving artists"...or any kind of "artist" for that matter.

+1

That said, I'm very picky about who I'll pay.   Out of the 80+ models I've shot, over 70 were trade.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
I'd LOVE to be making a ton of money, and while I don't think I'm Steven Miesel or anyobody, I do think that I deserve to be paid. The thing is, there's just not really a big market for that here. I end up spending way more money for shoots than I've ever made back.

You think steven miesel pays the models he tests with or that the models pay him? It's not worth it for him to get paid some measly test rate. What he does is see a face he wants to shoot, he calls the agency, they ask where and when. He assembles a crew that is either working for free or getting paid from another job. No money changes hands. Everyone walks away happy. The assistants think he'll maybe call them. The ones that already work for him do it as a favor because he's keeping them paid. The model thinks he'll be influential in getting them work. The agency is pleased as punch. And everyone witnessed a legend.

My point is that maybe you need to leverage your assets better and stop thinking you are going to make money shooting internet models. Even paid testing with agency models is generally considered more work than it's worth. Look at is as elevating your work and try to get into some market where you have actual clients paying you. And take down all that stuff about no tfp. It's just bizarre that you have that on your page but you are complaining about how much you pay models.

Gary Melton wrote:
...volume...

this

Gary Melton wrote:
...volume...

???

Patrickth wrote:
Add the pressure of having to go out of town and get a motel/hotel for the shoot and I really test myself to the max.

Got just such a situation going on right now.  Waiting for final price on a Zeiss Maximar to shoot with one of my favorite models.

I wouldn't dream of not paying her as the camera (or me) might have issues I don't know about at the last minute.

Like you being unable to work due to a woodie?

I don't know. I've come to realize everyone has their own take on things around here. But traditionally speaking, long before MM, a test shoot involves no money changing hands by definition. Because everyone is trying to get some stuff they can use in their book. And really it's the photographer bringing the production anyway

Then with internet modeling people think, "Hey! I can make some money like this." But it's not that easy. And others are in it for the fun and the hobby but at some point they think they are grandfathered into "getting paid".

The Falcons Nest wrote:
I've even gotten brazen and started approaching good looking women on the streets, other gigs and in stores. I guess I come off as a little cocky but it works when you've got a respectable approach.

Good point. Back in the day ( like 10 years ago ) if you couldn't get in with the agencies for testing then this is how you found talent. That's how I got models in college, that and friends of friends. You had to sell it. You had to be like, "Oh wow! I've got this thing I'd love to shoot with you. Perfect face for this thing I wanted to do. I've got this studio, you see, but it's really my kitchen..."

Don A Long wrote:
If I am doing a specific concept, I try to find a model with a look that fits the look I am after.  If I don't get any responses from models that fit my needs, I then look to offer pay.  The way I see it, this is my hobby and that is a cost of my hobby.  Fishing you need a boat and gear (camera and lenses) but you also have fishing day costs of gas and bait (models).  I can hire a model for about the same cost to go fishing or playing a round of golf.  If I hire a model once a month, and trade shoot the other weeks, I am good.   Make a model fund and do things to add money to it.  Before long you will have a regular fund for paying models from time to time.

That's the ticket! 

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Right now, I wonder how you guys afford to pay models. I'm not trying to make this into a "photographers pay for x,y, and z and models DON'T" kind of a thread, but seriously. After paying for all the obvious stuff like my camera and my equipment, and then all the other things like studio rentals (which are fucking expensive) and ALL of the wardrobe since we have no stylists here, I literally have ZERO money left. And these are things that I cannot forgo. I have an aesthetic. I have a style. And that vision depends on my access to proper wardrobe and things like that. I'm afraid my quality of work will suffer with out it. I've never been one of those photographers who just have models show up with an outfit or two and hope for the best... Some models even charge for time spent in hair and makeup which, I can understand why on one hand. but on the other, it's like, we NEED that.

Anyway, I'm just wondering, for the photographers out there who are a one-man show like I am: how is it that you're able to afford to pay models and what can I do differently to be able to afford it?

Hey Shon, something I've learned over the years:

Some girls demand money, and some girls demand quality, but generally speaking they can't have both.  As long as you know what you can provide, the answer should be pretty easy for your business .

I've been on both ends, and believe me, most of the people who refuse to pay you for your time/gear/expenses either are not serious about modeling, make money by getting nude, or have been shooting longer than you.  Those are the three main types.

Good luck .

ddtphoto wrote:

Like you being unable to work due to a woodie?

I don't know. I've come to realize everyone has their own take on things around here. But traditionally speaking, long before MM, a test shoot involves no money changing hands by definition. Because everyone is trying to get some stuff they can use in their book. And really it's the photographer bringing the production anyway

Then with internet modeling people think, "Hey! I can make some money like this." But it's not that easy. And others are in it for the fun and the hobby but at some point they think they are grandfathered into "getting paid".

I learned a long time ago, I can make more with my brain than with a camera. I don't like to promise models a viable series of shots.  I would just rather tell them I want to shoot, what it is, and when it is and only promise them the rate we decide on.  If I am feeling good about the results, will send along some pics.
With very few exceptions, especially on MM, I can make more money doing what I do, than they can make doing what they do.

As to the "woodie" crack, go buy a camera that has been in a closet for almost 100 years, take it to a shoot and see if all you think about is sex whilst paying the going rate for a model.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
I realize that a lot of you do not pay models, so I'm really asking the photographers who DO pay.

Ideally, models would be falling over themselves to shoot with me and offering me heaps of money, especially given the situation- they walk on set and EVERYTHING is provided for them. All they have to do is show up. Anyway, THAT is not happening, and there's really a lot of models that I like, but a scarce amount that are relatively close to me (close as in like a 250 mile radius or so) and then an even smaller amount that are interested in trade.

All you have to do is push a button same attitude and same foolishness. As a professional photographer I value my time so why would it be different for a model? Truth be told I find a pain to work with people who do not value their time.

As far as payment it depends client and the project. Sometimes it is trade or pay.

Image Works 123 wrote:
Interesting topic- wear the same landing strip underwear year round, eat roman noodles like college kids, plan out the trips like UPS- then pay your model

With those stinky nickers, do ya really think they'll come around - even for money??? Lmao!

~Danny
http://dbiphotography.co.cc
https://www.modelmayhem.com/1983551

The Falcons Nest wrote:
I've even gotten brazen and started approaching good looking women on the streets, other gigs and in stores. I guess I come off as a little cocky but it works when you've got a respectable approach.

How has this been working out for you. My cards come in next week and definitely need to hand some out to the females in NJ/NYC.

Mountain Man Photo wrote:
I have a job that often provides overtime.  I use some of my overtime money to hire models since very few that I wish to shoot will do TF. 

Maybe get a second job? 

........+1, i am in construction.........

Patrickth wrote:
I learned a long time ago, I can make more with my brain than with a camera.

You actually use your brain when you look through a camera, it's a little known fact.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
How Do You Afford to Pay Models?

Having a good career helps.  I bill clients $500 per hr.  Hiring models save money in a long run. 

lexdiamond20 wrote:

How has this been working out for you. My cards come in next week and definitely need to hand some out to the females in NJ/NYC.

Don't hand out cards. They won't have one. Talk about a project and ask for their contact info. Be genuine. Be cocky. Be confident. Be cool. It's a cult of personalities.

Gallery-MG wrote:
I've also noticed that many local models say they decline all TF offers!

fullmetalphotographer wrote:

All you have to do is push a button same attitude and same foolishness. As a professional photographer I value my time so why would it be different for a model? Truth be told I find a pain to work with people who do not value their time.

Excuse me?

DAVfoto wrote:
I'll bet money their are some small time talent agencies with some decent models in the area.. go talk to their bookers.  agencies love free shoots.  I dont think you are trying hard enough

I have yet to pay for a model for a shoot that wasnt a commercial project.

Thank you :-)

Victoria Sorrel wrote:
I am a model who does not expect to be paid. Because I do not see the point of hiring someone for like 50 pictures and paying them more than  half of the price of the pictures they took. Yes I understand If some models want to get payed but seriously, times are not there best right now and no one is shitting money besides rich people. The way I would do it is if the shoot takes longer than like 2 1/2 to 3 hours then yea I will ask for a small fee, or if the shoot is like so special it deserves a payment then so be it. I would never ask for 250$ because I know some people don't have it. Plus, I sometimes just want the pictures to increase my portfolio, and if the photographer did a "holy shit! I just had a heart attack this picture is death making" then yes, they do deserve a payment because they are putting there time and professionalism into it.

Its a good thing to know about travel expenses too. Who goes where? If you live in one area and I travel to it then I already adding expenses like gas money and that mac attack. Best scenerario is that you both live in the same area and there is little to no expenses but odds are that happens half the time.
One model I booked I chose place close to where she goes to work so we are shooting in that place before she starts work. Another next to where she goes to school- all are trades. Its always a debate of who should get what. I often see no TFP on photogs port but then they shoot TFP because most are college students where they don't know where to drop dead and the photog knows if they want to play they need to.

J Emmett Fertic wrote:
I don't pay. Clients do. My time is just as valuable as theirs.

jf

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