GM Photography wrote:

I'm always amazed at how many photographers are willing to spend thousands on bodies, lenses, lighting, computers, software, etc., but are unwilling to make any investment at all on one of the most important components, the subject of their images.  I don't pay models often, but if someone is in the area that is head and shoulders better than any of the many local models I can shoot trade with, I find a way to make time and dig up the money to work with them.  I want to make the best images I can.  Having the best possible subject is a pretty important part of that equation.  It's also nice to not have to provide any images, to be able to do whatever I want with the images, to be able to retouch them whenever I feel like it, to know the person is going to show up, etc.

Morning Greg.  Another vote for my way of thinking. Its blissful not owing anyone anything.  Just shoot, sit back and think about whether or not I made progress on what I wanted to accomplish. All in my own time.

cheers

PTPhotoUT wrote:

I'm still saving to bring you down here for a couple of days. I should have enough saved up by October.     2014

Some of us have day jobs, some are independantly wealthy, Me, I steal from old people. I'd rob kittens too, if they had any money.

Brings another great thought to mind - if you're trying to bring in models from outside your area, find a photographer friend who wants to split the cost. A lot of models will work in exchange for a plane ticket and/or place to crash.

Sendu wrote:
Though as others have pointed out, you shouldn't be paying models. Test with agency girls. If you're really far from any good agency, perhaps offer to pay for travel, but that's all.

I'm 800 miles from the kind of agency you're talking about, and most of their models aren't going to "test" for the kind of images I shoot.  Probably NONE of them will, in Michigan, with a decent but not world class photographer.  Plus, I don't need NY agency girls; they're great for something that's largely unrelated to my world.

GM Photography wrote:

I'm always amazed at how many photographers are willing to spend thousands on bodies, lenses, lighting, computers, software, etc., but are unwilling to make any investment at all on one of the most important components, the subject of their images.  I don't pay models often, but if someone is in the area that is head and shoulders better than any of the many local models I can shoot trade with, I find a way to make time and dig up the money to work with them.  I want to make the best images I can.  Having the best possible subject is a pretty important part of that equation.  It's also nice to not have to provide any images, to be able to do whatever I want with the images, to be able to retouch them whenever I feel like it, to know the person is going to show up, etc.

i love these types of posts. I'll probably get brigged for this, but do you see any non commitment from my end?  I shoot top dollar models.. heres the kicker for NOTHING!!  yet those who pay models. work usually tends to be sub par. because well they are paying models from a site where most of the models and even the ones that call themselves high paying models. blow democrats ass!!

Shon.. do yourself a favor, and get off this site for a bit.. it will do you some good

Peter Claver wrote:

I spent $30K on studio rental and model travel in 12 months.

So..

Yes.

Most of us can't do that. For $30k I can buy a house here.

Connor Photography wrote:

Peter Claver wrote:
I typically pay with travel and accommodations.. but in the end it's the same:

I have a day job that pays me alot of money.

It is still less than 20k per year.  It is much less than off-shore sailing expense.

Two of the last three years I lived on less than 20k a year and did just fine.

Connor Photography wrote:

It is still less than 20k per year.  It is much less than off-shore sailing expense.

Lumigraphics wrote:
Two of the last three years I lived on less than 20k a year and did just fine.

Well.... you are still relatively young.  Keep at it and keep reinvent yourself, I am sure you will be fine and hire any models you want.

Connor Photography wrote:

Connor Photography wrote:
It is still less than 20k per year.  It is much less than off-shore sailing expense.

Well.... you are still relatively young.  Keep at it and keep reinvent yourself, I am sure you will be fine and hire any models you want.

I'm 47. I've made lots of money, and no money. Moneygrubbing sucks and I'm a lot happier if I don't make a big priority in my life.

And why should I hire models?

The thing is, I'd feel terrible paying girls I don't even know while not paying friends I have made who I know need the money...but those are the ones happy to shoot trade.

David Miller Photoworks wrote:
I don't do this very often, but I noticed each time I work with a higher class of model I end up being able to trade with others of that level after the fact.  Plus the photos you get with the pros end up being far more useful, likely for publication, reusable, etc.

This is the secret to getting quality Models for trade. Some you will have to pay but the investment is not just in the shoot but for future leverage. That's the solution to the initial "egg" part of the chicken/egg dilemma: got to have the images to get the Models but need Models to create the images.   

The other part of the equation is the styling. Make-up, hair, wardrobe are key. Talented Models tend to be able to do their own styling well but if you can get a good Stylist in the shoot that will win you a trade shoot at minimal cost.

This only works if you can produce images of quality. Merely hiring the Model is not enough. Now if your images suck ass then you've got the problem and you need to
work on that or you just throw good money after bad.

If you can produce publish quality work and/or create a unique and distinct style then you'll have positioned yourself to have negotiating leverage when pursuing similar level talent.

Lumigraphics wrote:
I have worked with somewhere north of 250 models since Jan 2009, many more than once. Let's say I paid them each an average of $200 per shoot.

That's well over $50,000.

Needless to say, that's insane.

I catch flak for not paying models, but what should I do? I simply don't have that kind of money, and probably never will.

I've also worked with over 250 models, I do a mix of arrangements.  Until the past year or so I was well ahead, paid my tax.  Times are tough, more models turning professional trying to make a living themselves.  Expenses are going up.  Its crunch time for a lot of photographers (and models).

A recent model I worked with said she wasn't keeping up with her expenses, that lots of time was going into arranging and setting up shoots, lotsa of bookings were falling through.  She was actually thinking about getting a real job.

Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
Well if I got rid of my drinking issue, ate at home more than 4 times a month, stopped money going into my IRA, and didn't buy a MotoGuzzi, didn't have a gf (they are more expensive than the bike!), then yes - I'd have plenty of money to pay models.

It's all about budgeting!



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

I was with you all the way until you mentioned the MotoGuzzi. You have to have the bike man. What were you thinking?

Dobias Fine Art Photo wrote:
You're in Virginia Beach.  Norfolk is the city built by Camp Followers.  You have very physically fit (due to the military) male and female models all around you.  I've seen shoots at Virginia Beach in February for local calendars where you could see the look on the models' faces.  "It seemed like a good idea at the time.  BUT IT'S COLD!" 

The calendars were highly local crap.  But, there was no shortage of models.

Absolutely NOT BUYING IT when you say you have difficulty in getting models in Virginia Beach.  While I laugh at the guys who pay for plane tickets and hotel rooms, maybe they are in the badlands of South Dakota. 

But, for you to say you are having difficulties getting models in Virginia Beach is WORSE than someone in Fort Lauderdale, Daytona Beach, or Panama City saying they are having problems, because those are seasonal cities while Virginia Beach has hotties captive for six years.  AND you've got Old Dominion University, too.

Just not buyin' it.

Just reviewed your shots.  The male work is good.

I'm picky. I'm a fashion photographer.