Paul Gerard Smith wrote:
I have seen many shots on MM where some one has written text onto a model's body.  What is the best product to use that washes off easily?

Washboard marker, maybe.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Washboard marker, maybe.

Unequivocal NO to craft/stationary products.

Non-Toxic is NOT makeup.

My soap box is - we are making health care decisions for ANOTHER human being. And I commend the OP for asking makeup artist and body paint pros what to use - that shows respect for your model.

Look to inexpensive liquid eye liners with a fiber-tip brush for easy, crisp lettering. Easy cleanup with makeup remover.

Eye pencils for a more scribbled look.... also easy clean up.

Or water activated face paint for more extensive calligraphic script. Soap and water cleanup.

Tatoo pens (as mentioned above) are more expensive, but a good fit for projects with more extreme conditions. Alcohol required for removal.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
Unequivocal NO to craft/stationary products.

Non-Toxic is NOT makeup.

My soap box is - we are making health care decisions for ANOTHER human being. And I commend the OP for asking makeup artist and body paint pros what to use - that shows respect for your model.

Look to inexpensive liquid eye liners with a fiber-tip brush for easy, crisp lettering. Easy cleanup with makeup remover.

Eye pencils for a more scribbled look.... also easy clean up.

Or water activated face paint for more extensive calligraphic script. Soap and water cleanup.

Tatoo pens (as mentioned above) are more expensive, but a good fit for projects with more extreme conditions. Alcohol required for removal.

Thank you for that info!!

-- Dave

Paul Gerard Smith wrote:
Thanks to everyone who have already responded.  Has anybody heard of a product called "Body Art"?  I just spoke with a local large art supply chain store and they suggested that.

"Body Art" may be the private label line of water-activated face paint that is sold at Michael's craft store. This will absolutely work, but you have to have some skills with a paintbrush in order to do the writing.

A good-quality brush will be a MUST if you go the hand painted route.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
Unequivocal NO to craft/stationary products.

My soap box is - we are making health care decisions for ANOTHER human being. And I commend the OP for asking makeup artist and body paint pros what to use - that shows respect for your model.

Look to inexpensive liquid eye liners with a fiber-tip brush for easy, crisp lettering. Easy cleanup with makeup remover.

Eye pencils for a more scribbled look.... also easy clean up.

Or water activated face paint for more extensive calligraphic script. Soap and water cleanup.

Tatoo pens (as mentioned above) are more expensive, but a good fit for projects with more extreme conditions. Alcohol required for removal.

I strongly disagree.  Any craft and stationary products sold in the States are generally considered to be safe even occasionally ingested, including by children.  Eye line may be a better choice, but it does not mean it is safer.

I am just sayin'

Connor Photography wrote:
I strongly disagree.  Any craft and stationary products sold in the States are generally considered to be safe even occasionally ingested, including by children.  Eye line may be a better choice, but it does not mean it is safer.

I am just sayin'

Being safe and being meant for use on the skin are two totally separately things and while I can't speak for Lisa I can speak for employing common sense. And when you're doing something to another person that should be what prevails. Just because a kid may draw on themselves with markers doesn't mean that they should do it. And when viable alternatives are available it's best to use them since it's less likely that a product meant specifically for usage on the body (especially a product like eyeliner which goes in a very sensitive area) is going to have an adverse effect.

Connor Photography wrote:

I strongly disagree.  Any craft and stationary products sold in the States are generally considered to be safe even occasionally ingested, including by children.  Eye line may be a better choice, but it does not mean it is safer.

I am just sayin'

I'll say it again, we're making Healthcare Decisions for ANOTHER Human Being.

Argue the point all day, but Non-Toxic is NOT makeup.
http://battledress.deviantart.com/journ … -214185627

We eat plenty of things that we wouldn't want to coat our bodies in - and the skin's respiration of large surface areas covered in non-toxic "stuff" is absolutely an OFF LABEL use of craft products.

There is a REASON that there are far fewer pigments approved for cosmetics than arts/crafts.

CBAPhoto wrote:
There's grease paint markers, like what Groucho Marx used to apply his famous mustache with. Water based or acrylic paints work great. Crayola water-based markers are also cool. Just depends on what you want for effect.

Grease paint is fine.

NO to water based or acrylic paints, crayola markers, etc.

There are plenty of READILY available and inexpensive Cosmetic products for this look - and absolutely NO reason to subject another human being to "should be safe" craft products.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
We eat plenty of things that we wouldn't want to coat our bodies in - and the skin's respiration of large surface areas covered in non-toxic "stuff" is absolutely an OFF LABEL use of craft products.

Though I respect your opinion & in a real-world situation would defer to your judgement, there's a pretty big difference between what you're talking about (like a bodypainting assignment) and what the OP is talking about (writing a textual passage on the person).

There's also a pretty big difference between putting it on sensitive places on the body (like eyes or respiratory airways) & the places where something like the OP is asking about, which would be on the back, torso, legs, or somewhere like that.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that my original suggestion was completely correct. Just pointing out the above differences.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Though I respect your opinion & in a real-world situation would defer to your judgement, there's a pretty big difference between what you're talking about (like a bodypainting assignment) and what the OP is talking about (writing a textual passage on the person).

There's also a pretty big difference between putting it on sensitive places on the body (like eyes or respiratory airways) & the places where something like the OP is asking about, which would be on the back, torso, legs, or somewhere like that.

What's more "real world" than applying something to a model's skin?

All things being being equal, why would you NOT use a readily available, inexpensive cosmetic product like eyeliner?

Yes, I'm easily flummoxed by this kind of discussion.

Lisa Berczel wrote:

There is a REASON that there are far fewer pigments approved for cosmetics than arts/crafts.

+ 1

Simple science.  Or mebbe complex science.  Stick to makeup and products designed specifically for skin application.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
What's more "real world" than applying something to a model's skin?

The availability of even procuring a makeup artist to begin w/ (let alone one who specifically knows about this stuff) or more accurately, the size of the shoot & budget of those involved.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
All things being being equal, why would you NOT use a readily available, inexpensive cosmetic product like eyeliner?

Where would one get something like you're suggesting? Maybe that would be a better line of discussion instead of scoffing at why people are wrong & then expecting them to fend for themselves.

The reason I suggested washboard marker is that its EASILY removeable (as oppose to other forms of makeup) & can be procured in just about any office store.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Where would one get something like you're suggesting? Maybe that would be a better line of discussion instead of scoffing at why people are wrong & then expecting them to fend for themselves.

I am not "scoffing" at people and resent the characterization.

I am being VERY adamant about safety education - for someone who came to this forum's makeup artists and body painter pros for product advice.

Any Wal-Mart will have $uper inexpensive eyeliners in both liquid and pencil form - which are just as easy to remove as, well, makeup.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
Yes, I'm easily flummoxed by this kind of discussion.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
I am not "scoffing" at people and resent the characterization.

I guess we just have a vastly different definition of what "scoffing" is.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
I am being VERY adamant about safety education - for someone who came to this forum's makeup artists and body painter pros for product advice.

I don't remotely see it that way.

A photographer saw some technique that interested & asked for advice on a product that washes off easily. Simple as that.

Yes, you do have a different perspective that has value. But you are hardly the final decider on what is & is not approriate specifically to the OP's decision. Say your piece & simply let him evaluate & decide. I don't see why that's so difficult.

I'll let you have the last word.

Connor Photography wrote:
I strongly disagree.  Any craft and stationary products sold in the States are generally considered to be safe even occasionally ingested, including by children.  Eye line may be a better choice, but it does not mean it is safer.

I am just sayin'

Farenell Photography wrote:
Though I respect your opinion & in a real-world situation would defer to your judgement, there's a pretty big difference between what you're talking about (like a bodypainting assignment) and what the OP is talking about (writing a textual passage on the person).

There's also a pretty big difference between putting it on sensitive places on the body (like eyes or respiratory airways) & the places where something like the OP is asking about, which would be on the back, torso, legs, or somewhere like that.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that my original suggestion was completely correct. Just pointing out the above differences.

Black Dog Studios RI wrote:
There's also a big difference between makeup that is meant to be worn all day, everyday and a brief exposure to a non-toxic substance, even if it is not approved for makeup.

I prefer to use Sharpies.

Please refer to the The Art & Creative Materials Institute, Inc. (ACMI) website for more information. Note what the ACMI states under "Safety"

Never use products for skin painting or food preparation

unless indicated that the product is meant to be used in this way.

I should point out that the OP has posted in the Hair, Makeup and Styling forum for a reason. He deserves proper advice which Lisa Berczel has provided. We're not talking about a "preference" here as in "I prefer a pizza rather than a hamburger." It is about making prudent choices concerning someone's health.

Black Dog Studios RI wrote:
There's also a big difference between makeup that is meant to be worn all day, everyday and a brief exposure to a non-toxic substance, even if it is not approved for makeup.

I prefer to use Sharpies.

Again, you're making a health decision about what's "safe" for someone else.

I started out bodypainting with Sharpies - but quickly moved on once educated about safety and model etiquette.

A model under hot lights is going to have her skin respire at quite a different rate than a kid doodling on their hand in a college dorm.

With cosmetic options so easily available, it gives me a headache to see people argue the point.

Barry  M  Robinson wrote:
I should point out that the OP has posted in the Hair, Makeup and Styling forum for a reason. He deserves proper advice which Lisa Berczel has provided. We're not talking about a "preference" here as in "I prefer a pizza rather than a hamburger." It is about making prudent choices concerning someone's health.

Hate to break this to you but that's not how a forum works.

Everyone of us is freely allowed to post in areas outside our primary expertise. If you're a MUA & have an opinion or knowledge about something, you are allowed to post in the modeling & photography sections.

If the answer is flawed or hadn't taken into consideration something that was important, it is expected that the masses (or the "experts") shall offer their own opinions. Let the OP decide.

Louis LaSalle wrote:
Years ago, I worked with a model, and in the last session, we were working with a gold leafed, papier-maché start. The model thought it would be cool to make gold marks on his body, using gold hair gel he had brought with him. We did that. After the shoot, after the model had showered, he walked back into and said, "You're not going to believe this."

Every mark we had made on his body with the gel, was still clearly visible, in bright red. Over several hours the reaction went away.

Products for use on the Hair can have ingredients/pigments NOT approved for use on skin..... which is why we're here discussing education vs assumptions.

Lisa Berczel wrote:
I started out bodypainting with Sharpies - but quickly moved on once educated about safety and model etiquette.

A model under hot lights is going to have her skin respire at quite a different rate than a kid doodling on their hand in a college dorm.

With cosmetic options so easily available, it gives me a headache to see people argue the point.

LOL! I knew at least one zealot wouldn't recognize Sharpies as sarcasm. I mean, what kind of moron would write on someone with a Sharpie?

You should read some more FDA regulations on how various substances are classified FDC or simply non-toxic. Even though the dyes or pigments in a non-toxic marker are not FDC, brief exposures, including ingestion, to small amounts are not considered hazardous. Cosmetics are held to a higher standard because of the prolonged nature of the exposure.

And your argument about me making a health decision for someone else is utterly unpersuasive. Photographers make dozens of those in the course of an everyday shoot. Including, but not limited to, EMF exposure from studio wiring, radiation exposure from flash equipment, particulate exposure from improperly maintained ventilation systems, not to mention the chance of equipment and other heavy objects falling on models if the photographer is not a qualified structural engineer.

Black Dog Studios RI wrote:
I knew at least one zealot wouldn't recognize Sharpies as sarcasm. I mean, what kind of moron would write on someone with a Sharpie?

Lots of morons. One of my instructors in cosmetology school, for instance, used a sharpie to mark a person's eyebrows during a waxing demonstration.

Black Dog Studios RI wrote:
LOL! I knew at least one zealot wouldn't recognize Sharpies as sarcasm. I mean, what kind of moron would write on someone with a Sharpie?

You should read some more FDA regulations on how various substances are classified FDC or simply non-toxic. Even though the dyes or pigments in a non-toxic marker are not FDC, brief exposures, including ingestion, to small amounts are not considered hazardous. Cosmetics are held to a higher standard because of the prolonged nature of the exposure.

And your argument about me making a health decision for someone else is utterly unpersuasive. Photographers make dozens of those in the course of an everyday shoot. Including, but not limited to, EMF exposure from studio wiring, radiation exposure from flash equipment, particulate exposure from improperly maintained ventilation systems, not to mention the chance of equipment and other heavy objects falling on models if the photographer is not a qualified structural engineer.

Sure. Call me a zealot. Whatever.

It's almost impossible to discern sarcasm in posts where people are seriously arguing about using using, well, markers on the skin.

If I'm being a zealot about going to Cosmetics FIRST before any old random marker.... sure. FDA isn't perfect - but it is a standard and it is the safest place to start from.

I've been on sets with live barbwire, 3 story fire and live body piercings and more - so I'm absolutely no stranger to dangerous sets or the risks participants willing take to get the images in my portfolio.

I've glued moss and tree bark on to models. Not exactly a stock item.

Point is, I don't consider myself a zeolot or scoffing about the topic - I've just worked with WAY to many models who have been harmed by dismissive attitudes when it comes to product safety.

Edit to add... as noted above, there's no shortage of people who should KNOW better when it comes to product safety and education. I can't tell you how many artists have contacted me about bad instructors.

SK Harris MUA and Hair wrote:

Lots of morons. One of my instructors in cosmetology school, for instance, used a sharpie to mark a person's eyebrows during a waxing demonstration.

Do you know what do they use to make the patient before implant is done  ?

SK Harris MUA and Hair wrote:

Lots of morons. One of my instructors in cosmetology school, for instance, used a sharpie to mark a person's eyebrows during a waxing demonstration.

Do you know what do they use to make the patient before implant is done  ?

Connor Photography wrote:

Do you know what do they use to make the patient before implant is done  ?

I would assume that they use surgical markers like these...
http://www.amazon.com/Surgical-Skin-Tat … B005FRGAIY

If they are using sharpies, I would have some serious doubts as to the rest of their procedures regarding sterility and safety.

Connor Photography wrote:

Do you know what do they use to make the patient before implant is done  ?

Surgical markers. They're kind of pretty much all around totally NOT sharpies.


If any of the craft markers/paints/etc that have been mentioned were actually okay on the skin, the containers wouldn't all have a "if you eat it, throw it up/drink water/call poison control, if you get it in your eye, rinse your eyes out, and if you get it on your skin, wash it off" warning on them. It's not because they think you're too stupid to figure out that you have to wash it off to remove it, it's because you're not SUPPOSED to have it on your skin.

If regular paint/ink were meant for/safe for skin, body paint wouldn't exist.

Connor Photography wrote:

Do you know what do they use to make the patient before implant is done  ?

Purple surgical markers. As a child they were the ONLY pens I was allowed to draw on myself with. Any others and I was punished and lectured as to how unsafe that was and damaging to my skin. My mom was an RN for many years and then a Nurse Practitioner. I'm assuming that means some things are not safe to draw on yourself with.

BodyPainter Rich wrote:
Consider this.

You are driving your car and start to hear a loud noise whenever you use the brakes.

You go into a mechanics forum and ask... is it safe to continue driving with this loud noise happening?

The mechanics overwhelmingly tell you that you should get your brakes checked by someone who is a respectable mechanic and/or replace the pads yourself and see what re-evaluate.

But then you also hear from a couple computer repair guys who say they don't think you have a problem, just keep driving until the brakes fail... or you can repair the brakes with some rubber cement that you can buy at Wal-Mart.

The choice is yours. Who do you listen to? Someone with training, experience, and knowledge... or someone who has done a couple "do it yourself" jobs, or read about the topic on a blog somewhere.

This IS a safety issue, and any person who is reasonably responsible will consider safety when working on another person's skin. If you choose to ignore the safety suggestions of a trained professional... do so not only at your own risk, but at the risk of others as well.

That being said, there are markers sold for use on skin.
You can get custom temporary tattoo transfers printed.
You can use eyeliner pencils.
You can use makeup "crayons" available at a costume shop near you.
You can go to sillyfarm.com and get some waterbased bodypaint.
You can go to Michael's or Hobby Lobby and buy the crappy smeary stuff that they sell.

There are MANY safe options... why would you POSSIBLY want to choose something that is not approved for use on skin?

This is an amazing post, Rich.

I cannot believe how absurd this thread has gotten.