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We need to change the rules...
What I am talking about is how we approach models. It seems to me that we have got this all backwards. Without our talent, the models would not have anything to show. We should not be paying them, they should be paying us. And, not to be rude or anything, but I have yet to see a model in my area that I think looks hot enough for me to want to pay her. I think photographers want to break into the industry so bad they will pay just so they can have a portfolio. I think that is wrong. If photographers all followed the same rule, then we would all get paid a lot more than we do. Something to think about. Sep 19 12 06:06 am Link The Devil's advocate whispers: What, right now, is stopping you from being a landscape photographer! Who put a gun to your head to shoot pretty models? Sep 19 12 06:13 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: what makes you think models are worthless? Sep 19 12 06:13 am Link What make you think you're good enough to demand payment? Or in other words... Yeah, good luck with that. This thread will not end well for you. Best you can hope for is an early lock. Sep 19 12 06:15 am Link No, we don't... If the photographer is significantly better than the model, it makes sense for the model to pay the photographer. If the model is significantly better than the photographer, it makes sense for the photographer to pay the model. Other things can obviously affect this as well, like the model wanting photos that doesn't benefit the photographer's portfolio, or the other way around. In your case I'd assume it's much more likely that you have to pay the model than the model paying you, at least if you're planning on working with experienced models. Sep 19 12 06:19 am Link If photographer and model are the same level, test / TFP. If photographer > model, model pays. This also happens if the model wants something that won't benefit the photographer. If model > photographer, photographer pays. This also happens if the photographer wants something that won't benefit the model. It's really, really simple. And if you think you have what it takes to help sell models by presenting images which will get them booked, feel free to change your text to say you're available only for paid work. The market will tell you if you're right or wrong. Sep 19 12 06:20 am Link OP, grasshopper, be quiet and learn. Vagina rules. Obey and be happy.  Sep 19 12 06:22 am Link Supply and demand, mkay? Sep 19 12 06:22 am Link Ahhhh,,, Sure.. I.B.T.L Sep 19 12 06:25 am Link I think.. This goes both ways... When your desperate for a portfolio, work with someone desperate as well.. If your not talented, your not... No "pretty" model can teach you proper photography techniques... Ive seen photograpers with the simplest of models, and nothing special about them ALLLL over their portfolio... And they still make money.... ? Hmmmm... Interesting here... Something to think about? Maybe its not the models, maybe its the photographer? Sometimes, Of course, its the model too!! Theres a lot of terrible models out there!! (not to say IM fantastic myself). But ive worked with some photographers who have NEVER shot model portraiture before!! And we came up with some amazing shots from something sooo simple. Im one of those models that shoot TF shots, and test shots, and find myself "muse" photographers that i work well with, and am garanteed fantastic shots regardless of concept. When you find models approaching you left right and centre to shoot TF, just offer your rates.. They dont like it, move on... You cant force models to pay you, as some models NEVER will pay!! Its a two way street!!! You want a model who pays... You more then likely wont get a very good model=(in your mind it seems) crappy shots. Unless your photography is THAT good, your only LOOKING for money... Go somewhere else, as the photographers here who make REAL money, make art... Not money... Money just comes with it... Focus more on your art then the models... Its about art... Doesnt matter WHAT Model you get, every model has a canvas... Are you talented enough to paint it? And are you talented enough that they cant find your talent somewhere else for free? Thats the real question here.... Cuz otherwise, as a model, we would say NEXT! Just as a photographer would to a model that isnt unique... Sep 19 12 06:26 am Link  Moderator Warning!It's getting close to critiquing the OP. Please keep comments to his subject without the critique. Sep 19 12 06:27 am Link I don't want to "break into the industry." This is a hobby to help preserve sanity in an otherwise chaotic existence. Although my skills have improved over the last year, I'm a long way from demanding someone pay me. Besides, doesn't a model deserve to be compensated for her time with something that could actually pay the rent, put gas in the car or buy food? Sep 19 12 06:28 am Link Anette S wrote: Wat? are you implying the work of OP sucks? Sep 19 12 06:30 am Link Black Dog Studios RI wrote: ^gas is always nice... Since WE most often come to YOU.. Less effort on your part! More on ours from vehicle insurance, HAVING the vehicle to the maintence and gas it needs... I tell ya, im buying a vehcle worth 5000 today, SPECIFICALLY because i CANT stand not being able to model without wheels!! Wish photographers would travel to me instead!!! Or atleast compensate... Sep 19 12 06:33 am Link
Post hidden on Sep 19, 2012 06:54 am
Reason: violates rules Comments: You were warned about unsolicited critiques Sep 19 12 06:41 am Link I think you need to check your ego. Sep 19 12 06:42 am Link Do not throw the arrow which will return against you. ~ Kurdish Proverb Sep 19 12 06:46 am Link Go on strike until they come to their senses and pay you. Sep 19 12 06:51 am Link I really don't think there's a standard. Everyone works different and has different goals and financials. You make money by spending money. Sep 19 12 06:51 am Link With that kind of attitude, I see allot of pics of butterflies and kittens in your future!:-)))))) Sep 19 12 06:53 am Link Perhaps post in the "general feedback" forum and ask who would be willing to pay you (and how much). you might gain some perspective. bottomline is this: you pay those that will benefit your portfolio, but won't benefit theirs that goes fo photographers, models, muah's, stylists,... Sep 19 12 06:54 am Link I wrote this in another thread, but it's applicable here as well: People come to MM hoping to network and "get work". The networking part is fine, the get work part though is not really relevant as the site doesn't have clients. Traditionally, all subsections of people on this site (models, photographers, makeup artists, hair stylists, wardrobe stylists and retouchers) would all test for free all the time, with people each other like. The goal being to get the best work out there from each member of your little clique so that more work could be generated, understanding that, for your team, a rising tide would lift all boats. Profiting off a new girl who wants to be a llama, would never be done by a real fashion/portrait/editorial photographer - it would be done by portrait mills - an entirely different business. Similarly, a llama would not charge a fashion/portrait/editorial photographer to test, no matter how big a name she had. She either would not pose for him, or pose for free. Lesser llamas would, however, charge the old camera club members. See where I'm going with all of this? If your goal is to market to paying clients (companies, ad agencies, catalog houses, etc.) then it is in the best interest of all to do the best work they can, as often as they can, on a TFP basis. If you're trying to make money of off each other... Well, that's not a business llama I understand all that well, so I'll leave it to others to comment on. Sep 19 12 06:55 am Link The only rule is: who needs the other more pays. Maybe the problem is that you need these models more than they need you? Just my $0.02 Ciao Stefano www.stefanobrunesci.com Sep 19 12 06:55 am Link Sep 19 12 06:56 am Link Anna Adrielle wrote: or post a casting call and see who is responding, better yet, who is not responding. Sep 19 12 06:57 am Link -B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote: This works too. Sep 19 12 06:57 am Link Geez people, take a chill pill. My point was that us photogs have a lot of money wrapped up in our gear. Why shouldn't the photogs be compensated for that? A model has what, her looks? I never said I was trying to get paid work. My post was simply an observation, nothing more. Sep 19 12 06:58 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: You've made quite an assumption here. You use "we" and "our" as if all photographers are on the same page, have the same goals and are of an equal skill level. We are not. You also mention a couple of things that make me wonder what you are really looking for here. You can't find a model "hot" enough to make you want to pay her. So, being hot is an important factor in what you want to shoot? What about the model with a certain kind of hair, weird but captivating eyes or the model who can be many things with many looks? Sep 19 12 07:01 am Link It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. - Richard P. Feynman Sep 19 12 07:01 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Nobody cares how much you spent on equipment. Sep 19 12 07:01 am Link -B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote: Which is breath taking captures or $$$.. your choice Sep 19 12 07:02 am Link That was interesting: I read as far as the end of the second line in the OP and then my eyes automatically flicked to the left to see the number of Posts and ... 'Bingo'. As for an on topic response: Market Forces. Sep 19 12 07:03 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Seriously man, you not helping yourself here..lol. Sep 19 12 07:03 am Link Apparently I am either not getting my point across the right way, or I just think differently than most other photogs. Whatever. Sep 19 12 07:05 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Trust me, we took our chill pill this morning. Who the fuck cares about how much money you spent on gears !!!. Sep 19 12 07:06 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Wait. First it was because we have the talent, now it's because we've spent a lot of money? Your argument just went from bad to worse. No one forced you to spend a lot of money. No one but you will ever care about your investment. Everyone else will only care about your results. Sep 19 12 07:06 am Link It takes money from both camps to make a shoot happen in terms of gas money which today is more like gold. Even tho I have to say the photographer has the equipment invested and not talking about a D3000 with kit lens. I literally carry 4g's worth of gear with me. Sep 19 12 07:06 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: And your point is? Sep 19 12 07:08 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Unfortunately, you're making yourself very clear. You are not the first photographer to try to make your point. They all got the same reception you're getting. Sep 19 12 07:10 am Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Getting more money for you and Joe and Jerry and Frank is not among the reasons I shoot. Photography is not a team sport. Something to think about. Sep 19 12 07:11 am Link |
