Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 42754

Salinas, California, US

Jay Farrell wrote:
Safety excuse translates to, too lazy to research and do your homework, and dump the responsibility on someone else who may negatively affect the shoot.

It's so easy, we have the Internet to do that!   Aw hell!  What'd we do before the Internet?   Oh gosh!  People actually talked on the phone, wrote letters and met up with each other in person!  With the Internet to help in checking people out, in combination with the traditional methods of communication, we are actually safer today than ever.  Yes, "Lazy" is a good word to describe those who don't take the time.   I still have no problem with invited guests ... as long as I can check them out, and they know that I could ask them to leave at any point.  In 30 years time, I've been kidnapped once by two women posing as a "model & escort" and I've had to chase one uninvited guest away.  No other drama other than that is a pretty damn good track record!   I could teach a lot of you folks how to reduce the chances of "flakes" happening too!  wink

Mar 21 13 04:58 pm Link

Photographer

Jay Farrell

Posts: 13148

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:

It's so easy, we have the Internet to do that!   Aw hell!  What'd we do before the Internet?   Oh gosh!  People actually talked on the phone, wrote letters and met up with each other in person!  With the Internet to help in checking people out, in combination with the traditional methods of communication, we are actually safer today than ever.  Yes, "Lazy" is a good word to describe those who don't take the time.   I still have no problem with invited guests ... as long as I can check them out, and they know that I could ask them to leave at any point.  In 30 years time, I've been kidnapped once by two women posing as a "model & escort" and I've had to chase one uninvited guest away.  No other drama other than that is a pretty damn good track record!   I could teach a lot of you folks how to reduce the chances of "flakes" happening too!  wink

LOL! Yea so with the conveniences of the internet, that should make it easier to research! I still remember one model brought these 2 idiots with her....a couple of wannabe ghetto saggers. This was about 7 years ago and I was a little more lenient about it.....not much though. I had them sit in the living room and left my 2 Boxers in the house with them. And my white Boxer did not like saggers, so they had to sit there, while we were in the garage / studio shooting. She never brought them again big_smile

Mar 21 13 05:06 pm Link

Photographer

DVP Photography

Posts: 2865

Broomfield, Colorado, US

Here's an issue I haven't seen mentioned and it has happened to me a number of times.  Model calls an hour or two before the shoot and says she can't come because her escort has bailed on her.  Very frustrating and a real waste of time.  An escort never has the same interest in the shoot as the model and can easily have something better to do come shoot time.  For this and other reasons already stated I only allow escorts for under 18 models and a real newbie that I really want to shoot.

Mar 21 13 05:07 pm Link

Photographer

Jay Farrell

Posts: 13148

Nashville, Tennessee, US

DVP Photography wrote:
Here's an issue I haven't seen mentioned and it has happened to me a number of times.  Model calls an hour or two before the shoot and says she can't come because her escort has bailed on her.  Very frustrating and a real waste of time.  An escort never has the same interest in the shoot as the model and can easily have something better to do come shoot time.  For this and other reasons already stated I only allow escorts for under 18 models and a real newbie that I really want to shoot.

Very real. I mentioned it on page 2....it doubles the risk of cancellation, not good.

Mar 21 13 05:08 pm Link

Photographer

The Grey Forest

Posts: 262

Igoumenítsa, Kentriki Ellada, Greece

I put the OP on my block list, because of the ludicrous demands placed on her main page.

But in all fairness, to answer her initial inquiry:

escorts are distractions (in uncountable ways)
escorts steal (one of the most infuriating reasons)
escorts rush the shoot (even when waiting outside)
escorts, chaperones, observers, babysitter: by whatever name are the same thing
~ an inexcusable crutch for the unprofessional/immature.

if you are truly afraid for your safety, then wear a neon orange vest 27/7 and hide in a basement ~ your 'escort' can bring you meals & clean your pen.


NOTE: due to another recent MM thread:  I WILL start allowing escorts to be present at my shoots who must each pay my fee of $100 hr as a spectator to my creation process.

Mar 21 13 05:12 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27619

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Jay Farrell wrote:
Safety excuse translates to, too lazy to research and do your homework, and dump the responsibility on someone else who may negatively affect the shoot.

Or it means, "I'm just here for the cash and will shoot with every Joe Blow with an extra Benjamin in his wallet.", Rather than being picky and shooting only with established professionals - even for pay.

Mar 21 13 05:18 pm Link

Photographer

Naughty Ties

Posts: 3157

Riverview, Florida, US

Krisna Fretwell  wrote:

I didn't write about escorts in a previous thread. Someone decided to spin what I was saying into something entirely different. Please read things thuroughly before jumping into a conversation. Thank you

Oh I read it all thoroughly and it doesn't matter how it got spun because you made your feelings on the subject abundantly clear and by the responses you knew how the industry, in general feels. So why start a thread on it...did you expect a different result?

Mar 21 13 07:26 pm Link

Photographer

terrysphotocountry

Posts: 4154

Rochester, New York, US

Talk about betting a DEAD horse. Are opinion don't mean a thing. Its between a model and a photographer. (PERIOD)

Mar 21 13 07:35 pm Link

Model

Krisna Fretwell

Posts: 18

Chino Hills, California, US

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

"As for bringing an escort.. That is a safety issue and I will not by any means compromise my safety."

That was a quote by you in that other thread where you justify your many demands. So, yes, you did write about escorts in a previous thread.

That thread was about being rude and asking if it was necessary to be. And people were attacking that I had requirements. I did not write about escorts tho I commented on someone else about my requirements.

Mar 21 13 09:03 pm Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

DVP Photography wrote:
Here's an issue I haven't seen mentioned and it has happened to me a number of times.  Model calls an hour or two before the shoot and says she can't come because her llama herder has bailed on her.  Very frustrating and a real waste of time.  An llama herder never has the same interest in the shoot as the model and can easily have something better to do come shoot time.  For this and other reasons already stated I only allow llama herders for under 18 models and a real newbie that I really want to shoot.

Very common - happened to me twice - the other issue and the one that finally broke the camel's back for me so to speak, was the llama herder (boyfriend) getting bored sitting by himself in a dark corner of the studio out of the way (I told her to make sure he brought a book as it's not my job to entertain the hangers-on) and leaving over an hour early, taking the model with him...

Mar 22 13 02:13 am Link

Photographer

Mike Adams Photos

Posts: 1217

Cleveland, Ohio, US

Just another "model" to never even consider....

Mar 22 13 02:37 am Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Mike Adams Photos wrote:
Just another "model" to never even consider....

It does separate the wheat from the chaff, doesn't it? Although it's less of an issue for me in that most of the drama emanates from the far side of the Atlantic - all the European models I've contacted through MM for shoots (bar one in Holland - I think she underestimated the travelling distances involved) have shown up willing, ready and able...

...and without escorts.

Mar 22 13 03:49 am Link

Photographer

John Malloch Caldwell

Posts: 2563

Hastings, England, United Kingdom

There is an old adage used by a lot of theatrical agents which can equally be applied to this subject.
"Don't call us,we will call you if you are ever needed" At that all info on the model/actor is thrown in the bin.

Mar 22 13 04:09 am Link

Model

Jen B

Posts: 3187

Hopkinsville, Kentucky, US

Krisna Fretwell  wrote:
Hi.... Just trying to understand the opposing side of it I suppose

I'm against them.

However, a mutually respected extra person there who is committed to the outcome of the shoot is fabulous. This could be the person who does make up, hair, or styling.

I've met one recently though that was zero help, (was a distraction and brought the shoot down.) She seemed to be there to promote herself her friend as a model and not help the shoot. At least her friend/assistant had the wherewithal to actually speak to me rather than upsell herself to everyone else at the shoot, (from my own casting call.)

From, that situation I learned that not everyone who invites themselves to a shoot should be allowed, at all. Better yet, I also learned to say, "Here are your things, you need to leave now, thank you, good bye."

Biggest factors in who is there is if they are committed to the outcome of the shoot and if they are able to help.

Jen

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
What a great idea for a forum discussion . . . .

Out loud chuckling...smiling, thanks!

Mar 22 13 04:15 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 21691

Portland, Oregon, US

>>>>>  Off the wall thought warning  >>>>>

If asked what is the most important attribute for a llama, I would probably say "confidence".  If a llama feel unsure or unsafe, it'll show on her face

Mar 22 13 08:53 am Link

Photographer

Barry Druxman

Posts: 127

Los Angeles, California, US

Krisna Fretwell  wrote:
Hi. I've heard controversy on escorts. Some say they're a smart idea and others say they're not. (Personally i won't go without one because of past experiences) but what is your take on it? Just trying to understand the opposing side of it I suppose

To me, an escort is just a potential thief wandering around my house.

Mar 22 13 09:02 am Link

Photographer

rxz

Posts: 147

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

Hi_Spade Photography wrote:
My view on "escorts" is...if you need a "escort" then you're not mature enough or smart enough to figure out how this buisness works, therefore you should stay in the sandbox until you can figure it out.

I recently hosted a couple traveling models and not all the photo sessions they setup had convenient public transportation.  Some photographers wouldn't pick them up and drop them off.  So I did drive the models to some shoots only if the photog would let me stay until the session was over.  Some of these no escort  guys came across as real deadbeats.

Mar 22 13 09:27 am Link

Photographer

Jersey Shore

Posts: 403

Tinton Falls, New Jersey, US

this is what i tell models who want to shoot with me and then bring up the "escort" topic:

if you want to bring an escort to your shoot with me so you can feel safe, then, i will bring my escort to watch your escort very, very, very closely while we shoot, just to ensure that he or she does not steal anything, or, say anything at the shoot. 

normally, i don't hear from them again and that's okay with me, because, you just never know what devious intentions people have in their minds. then again, the model may not even be aware that she is actually bringing a thief or a mentally-challenged person to her shoot.

after reading the horror stories about what a number of photographers have experienced with some escorts (or so-called escorts) i am not surprised when some say they prefer to shoot without an escort present on their set.

Mar 22 13 09:39 am Link

Photographer

Faze1 photography

Posts: 568

Lawndale, California, US

Hhmm, maybe I should start an escort service! Not like the Las Vegas services! hmm  Lol!! Sexy people but with the capability of whooping photographers @ssets! WTH, maybe even a bodyguard service for photographers! Someone to follow the escort around, sit right next to them and give them the death stare. Sorry, I'm always looking for ways to make money!

Mar 22 13 09:51 am Link

Photographer

Naughty Ties

Posts: 3157

Riverview, Florida, US

rxz wrote:

I recently hosted a couple traveling models and not all the photo sessions they setup had convenient public transportation.  Some photographers wouldn't pick them up and drop them off.  So I did drive the models to some shoots only if the photog would let me stay until the session was over.  Some of these no escort  guys came across as real deadbeats.

So photographers who don't allow escorts and don't play taxi service to models who set up shoots with no way to get there are deadbeats? That's a new one.

Mar 23 13 09:57 am Link

Photographer

Good Egg Productions

Posts: 15723

Orlando, Florida, US

I shoot about 150 times a year.  Probably HALF of all of those are 1st time shoots with me.  And maybe 20 of those are first time, never had a real photoshoot before people.

One of my requirements is no escorts.

SOMEHOW, about 150 times a year, people can risk being raped, beaten or murdered to shoot with me. 

I absolutely don't care if you require an escort at all of your shoots.  You just won't be shooting with me.  If you have a problem with that, it's your problem.

Mar 23 13 10:06 am Link

Photographer

Mortonovich

Posts: 5564

San Diego, California, US

Rad. Three escort threads on the top of the forums just now.

lol


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/mortophoto/scortthreads_zps7a86fd10.jpg

Mar 23 13 10:10 am Link

Model

Rachel Aurie

Posts: 47

Albany, New York, US

When I travel I always travel with someone. As stated on my profile, if the photographer doesnt want someone else there we work it out in advance and this person drops me off and goes and does thier own thing during the shoot. If they stay then it is agreed upon prior to the shoot and they always are quiet and respectful.
I also provide information about who I am traveling with prior to the shoot so that if the photographer Im working with says its okay for them to come, at least they know who they are going to have there
I think its up to the photographer and I always check references anyway. It seems to me that the person behind the camera has more to lose (equipment, time, money, etc) than the person in front of it based on all that Ive read here in the forums on this overly discussed subject.
When I started I demanded an llama herder and discovered that one is not necessary if you check references and know who you are working with.
If youre not sure of someone then dont work with them.

Mar 23 13 10:24 am Link

Photographer

Boho Hobo

Posts: 25351

Portland, Oregon, US

Krisna Fretwell  wrote:
Hi. I've heard controversy on escorts. Some say they're a smart idea and others say they're not. (Personally i won't go without one because of past experiences) but what is your take on it? Just trying to understand the opposing side of it I suppose

I tell models, do NOT work with anyone you have not properly vetted.

to do so only puts your "escort" at risk.

I don't care how bad ass you think your escort is, if someone wants to do harm to you they just kill your escort first.


work with reputable photographers only, your portfolio will thank you as well.

Mar 23 13 01:32 pm Link

Photographer

Jay Farrell

Posts: 13148

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Patchouli Nyx wrote:

I tell models, do NOT work with anyone you have not properly vetted.

to do so only puts your "escort" at risk.

I don't care how bad ass you think your escort is, if someone wants to do harm to you they just kill your escort first.


work with reputable photographers only, your portfolio will thank you as well.

Escorts taste like chicken when skinned and grilled big_smile

Mar 23 13 01:38 pm Link

Photographer

Jhono Bashian

Posts: 2432

Cleveland, Ohio, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Escort Pros:
...  Model feels safe.
...  Escorts can be handy (holding reflectors, for example).

Escort Cons:
...  Escorts & models have been known to beat up & rob photographers.
...  Escorts can distract and/or inhibit models.
...  Escorts can draw model's focus away from the photographer / camera.
...  Escorts can become visibly bored, distracting the people working.
...  Escorts have been known to wander around, opening drawers, invading privacy.

Escort Strategies:
...  Check the escort's references.
...  Have the escort drop off the model, look around, leave, and come back later at
     an appropriate time to pick the model up.
...  But by all means, discuss the presence of an escort before agreeing to
      the terms of the shoot.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Wow... you do all that?   I mean I know you check models references but escorts as well?   Gee that seems like a lot of work for a photo shoot.   I'd rather just not have them there.   I guess there may be some comfort that someone knew them if they are a problem but why have them there at all.

Absolutely right ...  that sounds like too much hassle for a shoot..    Work with talent that doesn't feel threatened.

Sorry to the OP that had a bad experience, that sucks when shit like that happens

Mar 23 13 01:43 pm Link

Photographer

Boho Hobo

Posts: 25351

Portland, Oregon, US

Patchouli Nyx wrote:
I tell models, do NOT work with anyone you have not properly vetted.

to do so only puts your "escort" at risk.

I don't care how bad ass you think your escort is, if someone wants to do harm to you they just kill your escort first.


work with reputable photographers only, your portfolio will thank you as well.

Jay Farrell wrote:
Escorts taste like chicken when skinned and grilled big_smile

I'm desperately trying to restrain myself from a Silence of the Lambs quote.

smile

Mar 23 13 01:44 pm Link