Forums > Model Colloquy > should a photog let you delete pics in session?

Photographer

Picturetaker

Posts: 19

San Antonio, Texas, US

would you like for the photographer t give you the option of deleting photos before ending the session?

Oct 26 13 10:07 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

As someone who's found uses for images that might not otherwise be released -- even mistake photos (over/under exposed, out of focus, etc, slips) -- cropped, it makes a great advertising banner, for example.. Very very very rarely will I delete an image during a shoot.

So.. no. A photographer shouldn't allow a model to delete images except in very rare instances.

Oct 26 13 10:15 pm Link

Photographer

Solas

Posts: 9537

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I hear it builds trust, but personally I dunno if i'd be down with that.

Oct 26 13 10:18 pm Link

Photographer

Melissa Stein

Posts: 40

Los Angeles, California, US

As a photographer No. In my beginning years I have had some of my models favorite images still today come from images they wanted to delete the day of the shoot. I had requested (payed work) to let me work with them because I saw something in the images they had not. Turns out 6 years later it is still their favorite images, that could have been deleted if I left it up to them.

Oct 26 13 10:21 pm Link

Photographer

Art Silva

Posts: 9451

Santa Barbara, California, US

Picturetaker  wrote:
would you like for the photographer t give you the option of deleting photos before ending the session?

No!

ever heard of Happy Mistakes?

I recently revisited a couple of old photoshoots and fell in love with some photos I had dismissed and thought they would never see the light of day.
Fresh eyes and open mind months or years later can reveal some diamonds in the rough through re-processing, cropping or concept manipulation.

Oct 26 13 10:24 pm Link

Model

Danielle Reid

Posts: 4379

Little Rock, Arkansas, US

Since this was posted in the MODEL section I thought you'd like an opinion from a model.

Personally I'd like to delete photos that I wouldn't want the world to see (or even a few select people on the internet). But it's one of those things that varies person to person.

Oct 26 13 10:26 pm Link

Photographer

Leo Howard

Posts: 6794

Phoenix, Arizona, US

no

Oct 26 13 10:28 pm Link

Photographer

Don Garrett

Posts: 4442

Escondido, California, US

Although I always shown a model all, or most of the photos during the shoot, I have never had one ask for one to be deleted. Personally, my opinion is that is way beyond a model's function. I don't know how I would react, as it has never happened.
-Don

Oct 26 13 10:37 pm Link

Model

NYMPH

Posts: 624

Oakland, California, US

It's rarely offered. In most cases that I've encountered, it's to confirm that shots are or are not within my posing limits. If the model is newer, or if the shoot is dealing with some boundaries, then this is a great method to build trust. The photos never get off the camera, and the model never has to be worried. For the most part, I don't often see pictures on the back of the camera, and often only a few shots to demonstrate how the photographer is capturing the scene. Very rarely do I see every photo, as this is time consuming, and the photographer often knows what they want to get.

It seems time consuming and frustrating to allow a model to look through every photo and decide which can be kept. Unless, of course, there's good reason, i.e. posing limits.

Oct 26 13 10:38 pm Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18127

Albany, New York, US

No, simply because over the years I've found what I as a photographer will like is vastly different than what a model will like. For instance, I'll look at a shot & think the lighting & angle is poor & the composition uninteresting. A model will often look at that same shot & love it because it'll for instance make her boobs & butt look great.

Same goes for the preliminary pictures on the back of the camera appearing very different (especially in terms of exposure) when viewed on a computer.

Oct 26 13 10:42 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

By the way.. even if a model made me delete something.. I can get it back if I really really wanted to. Models should know that deleting in camera does NOT make it disappear.

Harkens back to the thing we say daily on here.. if you don't want it seen, don't pose for it. If you're an implied nude model who's worried about a nip slip, then you have no business being an implied nude model.

Oct 26 13 10:43 pm Link

Photographer

Wolfy4u

Posts: 1103

Grand Junction, Colorado, US

One reason I'd say no, (I have many reasons), is that if you take time to evaluation images during the shoot, you'll probably destroy any rhythm or momentum of the shoot.

Oct 26 13 10:49 pm Link

Photographer

M Barnes Photography

Posts: 217

Palmerston North, Manawatu-Wanganui, New Zealand

NYMPH wrote:
In most cases that I've encountered, it's to confirm that shots are or are not within my posing limits.

That's the only time I've done it, too.

I have done it at the END of editing - if it's a TF shoot, I always give the model the right of veto if there are any of the images he or she doesn't want seeing the light of day. So far, in all the models I've shot that way, none have ever wanted any not used.

Oct 27 13 12:17 am Link

Photographer

imcFOTO

Posts: 579

Bothell, Washington, US

I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to offer that. I can't possibly evaluate a shot on the LCD screen of my camera - I want to see it on my monitor first. If it's totally out of focus - I won't be using it anyway - otherwise it's a subjective choice anyway. A model definitely doesn't get to veto shots she may just not like.

Now if the concern was for instance that a photographer knowingly took some shots that were outside a model's agreed limits, I might understand why a model would want that. E.g. if it was agreed to do implied topless but strictly no bare boob shots and the photographer kept snapping away between poses - well that might be a reason. But a reputable photographer shouldn't be doing that and any agreement with the model should include a stipulation as to what may or may not be used later.

It's a trust issue isn't it? I have never violated that trust with a model and I've never been asked to physically delete shots either from the camera or my PC.

Oct 27 13 12:50 am Link

Photographer

Hugh Alison

Posts: 2119

Aberystwyth, Wales, United Kingdom

More important to answer you here than in your thread on the photography forum, so that some models read it.

1) Deleting pictures while you are shooting, and carrying on shooting with the same card, is the biggest cause of getting a corrupted card, and losing all the shots on the card - so not a very good idea.

2) Deleting pictures doesn't mean they can't be recovered later with software - so you need to shoot with photographers you can trust.


I tell models they can look through the shots later, and I won't use something they really don't like. That seems fair enough.

Oct 27 13 02:01 am Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 8452

Los Angeles, California, US

Well this is very easy to answer. No.

Oct 27 13 03:17 am Link

Model

Eugenya

Posts: 1103

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I know that I wouldn't pose in such a way that the resulting photograph would be something I truly didn't want anyone to see.  When photographers and I are going over the shots at the end of a shoot--which is a nice way to wrap up the session--if there are some unflattering shots, I know he/she is probably not going to be using them anyway.

If by chance a photo was snapped that I really, really felt strongly about no one seeing, then I would simply ask politely if they could possibly delete it.  If they say O.K.--great.  If they say no, that's fine.  I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.  I know the pictures are the photographer's pictures, but it would be worth a shot to try.  (I haven't yet had to ask this...)

Oct 27 13 03:46 am Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15540

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

John Jebbia wrote:
So.. no. A photographer shouldn't allow a model to delete images except in very rare instances.

Rare instance has happened more than once is when a model is showing too much ! clothes slips up and the wrong lips are showing and this can be my millimetres... delete.. delete... delete.

Oct 27 13 04:01 am Link

Model

Saedcantas

Posts: 445

Saint Saviour, Saint Saviour, United Kingdom

As others have said, only if you're working on something that might have resulted in breached posing levels by accident.

I wouldn't know about implied stuff, but if I posed full frontal nude and it ended up looking open leg for some reason then yes I'd want to be able to delete it. I feel confident that so far I've only worked with photographers who would respect that completely smile

Oct 27 13 04:18 am Link

Photographer

fussgangerfoto

Posts: 149

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

Simply, No...

For several reasons, some already mentioned:

- the images belong to the photographer, not the model
- the camera monitor is too small to make editing decisions
- it wastes time
- parts of the image may be worth more than the whole. Take the photo in my avatar, the model had THE most constipated expression on her face, but the pose was killer. Crop out the head to leave the body profile leading to the shoes and POW instant impact from a throw-away photo.

If the whole purpose of this question relates to accidental nip slips and crotch shots, then those should be addressed during the conversation you have about terms and limits. I will put it in the release if it's a concern for a model, but it's never been an issue.

Oct 27 13 04:44 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 21894

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

From my standpoint, copyright legal issues, which is a very different angle than everyone else is looking at this question, if there was an infringement of a particular image the barrister and the solicitors will ALWAYS ask for either adjacent frames, or, if video then trimmed and unused footage, that were / was not used.

Keep in mind that in most of the world with very few exceptions, such as the US, there is no form of copyright registration to prove ownership. Retaining unused material is very important to demonstrating that the infringer was in fact infringing something larger than what they were actually able to use.

There are reasons to keep, literally, everything that is shot.

Studio36

EDIT: I think that if you are in the US and you were to ask a US IP lawyer about registration, and do register your images, they would tell you to register [as a group] literally everything that was shot, even "bad" frames, out-takes, and material you never intend to use. There is no difference at all in the cost of doing that.

Oct 27 13 04:54 am Link

Photographer

B R U N E S C I

Posts: 25319

Bath, England, United Kingdom

I've done it, but I've always been the one to offer, and only for obviously bad images.

I certainly wouldn't agree to delete an image that I thought had potential. Models who shoot with me understand the kind of imagery I produce and if... if any particular image happened to be a little more revealing than the model was comfortable with then that's normally something the can easily be dealt with in post if necessary.

Perhaps the moral here for models is not to shoot with photographers you don't trust to represent you well...

John Jebbia wrote:
If you don't want it seen, don't pose for it.

And this.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Oct 27 13 05:30 am Link

Photographer

Jeffrey M Fletcher

Posts: 4344

Asheville, North Carolina, US

Sure, in those rare instances where you're convinced that the model has seen something that you missed and is helping you both with the suggestion. It can help the process and increase commitment by having the model more involved and if they're interested and observant it can be useful and fun.

However, usually no.

Models decide to work with me because of the look of my images. If I act in ways that indicate such a lack of confidence in my ability to select images, it's going to create an atmosphere of insecurity or even communicate to the model that I'm not committed enough to the session to have a direction or sense of purpose or even bother with having a strong opinion on individual images. To really get into discussing opinions about the images gets unwieldy in the amount of time it takes.

For the most part it comes down to time usage and I want the models modelling, not editing.

Oct 27 13 06:44 am Link

Photographer

WmBirch

Posts: 239

Akron, Ohio, US

I let them delete only if more than agreed to is showing,  It builds trust and accidents do happen. they rarely want to delete just bad shots. only for too much showing.

Oct 27 13 06:51 am Link

Photographer

SEI Photos

Posts: 312

Kalispell, Montana, US

I show images to most of my models as the shoot progresses, especially new models, because it helps them see what I am doing.  Very rarely, I'll delete an image that clearly doesn't work.  Even more rarely, a model will request a delete.

That said, I would like to point out that delete is not delete.  Image recovery software has advanced to the point where Raw files are recoverable, especially from memory cards with recent deletions.  Saved my butt a few times when I accidentally deleted a shoot from a card before uploading to my computer.

Oct 27 13 06:56 am Link

Photographer

Marin Photography NYC

Posts: 7246

New York, New York, US

No!... You were hired for your creative vision, not the models. If it's something unflattering that you can't fix in post then don't use it.

Oct 27 13 07:01 am Link

Photographer

Michael Zahra

Posts: 1106

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Obviously no.  For many reasons that should hopefully be clear.

Oct 27 13 07:11 am Link

Photographer

GM Photography

Posts: 6100

Olympia, Washington, US

NYMPH wrote:
It's rarely offered. In most cases that I've encountered, it's to confirm that shots are or are not within my posing limits. If the model is newer, or if the shoot is dealing with some boundaries, then this is a great method to build trust. The photos never get off the camera, and the model never has to be worried. For the most part, I don't often see pictures on the back of the camera, and often only a few shots to demonstrate how the photographer is capturing the scene. Very rarely do I see every photo, as this is time consuming, and the photographer often knows what they want to get.

It seems time consuming and frustrating to allow a model to look through every photo and decide which can be kept. Unless, of course, there's good reason, i.e. posing limits.

This is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.  If I've made an agreement that if certain things are showing, those photos are not to be used, I will call them to her attention if whatever it is she doesn't want photographed inadvertently is.

Oct 27 13 07:32 am Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 12827

Atlanta, Georgia, US

c_h_r_i_s wrote:

Rare instance has happened more than once is when a model is showing too much ! clothes slips up and the wrong lips are showing and this can be my millimetres... delete.. delete... delete.

This makes sense and I do it if we notice.  I don't review each image I shoot during the shoot so it doesn't really make sense.

Oct 27 13 07:44 am Link

Model

brianne

Posts: 281

OTTSVILLE, Pennsylvania, US

I've heard of instances where models would delete photos without the photographer's knowledge...that's just rude, even if it was truly a bad photo, or you just didn't like the way you looked. The fact that you're even touching the camera without permission is bad enough.
I don't really care either way though if the photographer would allow me to "delete" something before the session ends. I generally trust that they know what photos won't work and which ones to just pretend never existed. Plus, there's not usually that kind of time to go through and do that.

Oct 27 13 08:01 am Link

Photographer

Nick Peluffo

Posts: 120

Brooklyn, New York, US

usually, in the studio, we're looking through them as we shoot regardless of the type of shoot.
When clients are involved, nothing gets deleted (I've had clients come back to me saying they want something from a shoot 3 weeks ago).
When it's personal work, I have no problem working through the shots and, if anything is wonky, get rid of it. I've never had anyone make unreasonable
requests though; But I consider it a collaboration so if one of us is not comfortable with the output i'd be ok with it.

Oct 27 13 08:24 am Link

Photographer

234329043249234

Posts: 212

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

model should just be the model & not do the photographers job.

Oct 27 13 08:30 am Link

Photographer

Christopher Carter

Posts: 7688

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

I'd rather just let the model pick the photos she wants me to edit.

Oct 27 13 08:33 am Link

guide forum

Model

Damianne

Posts: 15975

Austin, Texas, US

NYMPH wrote:
It's rarely offered. In most cases that I've encountered, it's to confirm that shots are or are not within my posing limits. If the model is newer, or if the shoot is dealing with some boundaries, then this is a great method to build trust. The photos never get off the camera, and the model never has to be worried. For the most part, I don't often see pictures on the back of the camera, and often only a few shots to demonstrate how the photographer is capturing the scene. Very rarely do I see every photo, as this is time consuming, and the photographer often knows what they want to get.

It seems time consuming and frustrating to allow a model to look through every photo and decide which can be kept. Unless, of course, there's good reason, i.e. posing limits.

This post really ties in to my experiences as well.

It can be a problem for art nude models that don't do sexualized glamour, as the difference between the same pose being art nude and being a shot of your vag relies entirely on the photographer, and before you're completely sure of your own posing and what it looks like based on the positioning of the camera, it can be scary and confusing to work through. Allowing newer models to see and delete images can help a LOT.

Other than that, I don't have any reasons for this to happen.

Oct 27 13 10:46 am Link

Photographer

Andrew Thomas Evans

Posts: 24078

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Why does MM still have a model section anymore? Maybe it should be rolled/consolidated into the photographer forum sometime soon.





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Oct 27 13 10:57 am Link

Photographer

Jerry G63

Posts: 8

Southampton, England, United Kingdom

Hi,
I always allow the model to have the choice, granted I often work with new/fairly new models & have found that this really builds trust & often leads to second & third shoots.
On TFP shoots I think this is part of a fair trade.

I know the model I use like this.

Oct 27 13 11:05 am Link

Photographer

Charger Photography

Posts: 1720

San Antonio, Texas, US

Don Garrett wrote:
Although I always shown a model all, or most of the photos during the shoot, I have never had one ask for one to be deleted. Personally, my opinion is that is way beyond a model's function. I don't know how I would react, as it has never happened.
-Don

+100

Oct 27 13 11:07 am Link

Photographer

Charger Photography

Posts: 1720

San Antonio, Texas, US

Sometimes I show the models a pic or two  on the LCD screen... I never ask them is its a keeper.. lol.. they do their job and I do mine.

smile

Oct 27 13 11:12 am Link

Photographer

photosbycorbcn

Posts: 14

Cincinnati, Ohio, US

as a photographer i say no i try to keep every shot i have taken how ever if i shot something that is questionable or a model doesnt want posted for what ever reason i will not post that photo and have removed photos long time posted because a model no longer does that type of posing
bad photos can always be used for the learning experience and aid of what to try and avoid in the future

Oct 27 13 02:08 pm Link

Photographer

Silver Mirage

Posts: 1578

Plainview, Texas, US

I will delete photos in the camera if a picture is really a problem for a model. Usually this involves a "costume malfunction" or a photo that shows a little too much for the model's comfort. It's mostly a trust building thing -- I'm not going to use a photo like that anyway -- so for an inexperienced model or someone who does not know me well it can boost confidence.

As far as just something the model doesn't like, I'll delete it if it's a big deal to them though I don't like to delete in camera.

I've often read it's a bad idea to delete individual images from the card, especially in the camera, so I don't like to do it on technical grounds even though I've never had a problem.

Oct 27 13 02:25 pm Link