J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
How do you handle it in the real world?

As opposed to... the fake world?

MartaBrixton wrote:
Oh no, so sorry to hear that! I'm glad he asked via email so you didn't have to meet him.

Unfortunately, this is not very unusual, it has happened to me many times, especially when I get offered paid jobs.

Just recently I had a shoot with photographer (none of the ones in my portfolio), he seemed to be very happy with the results and offered another one, this time in France. During the first shoot he was trying to kiss me and he was begging me to let him touch my boobs. I told him I don't wish to have psychical contact with him and I thought he understood, after that he was acting professional.

The day before our scheduled 2 days shoot in France I asked about accommodation and he said we will be sharing bed, like it was the most obvious thing ever (from what he was saying apparently all his previous models had no problem at all with sleeping in the same bed with him). I told him this is not an option and I will pay for my own room. Then he got pissed off and cancelled everything because he can't work with someone who's got trust issues.

Once, I went to a different city for a calendar shoot and after the shoot I was told I had to say ''thank you'' (yes, a special thank you) to the photographer (and there were also a ''director''), when I refused I didn't get paid and they didn't use my pictures. After, the photographer send me an email saying I won't achieve anything, I don't know the industry etc. Not to mention that I was like 16 at that time and they were over 50.

Can't count how many times it was suggested to me on the phone or via email that I will have to have sex with someone, I just block them straight away.

Even for normal jobs it can happen, I was trying to get a job as a waitress in a restaurant and the owner asked me for a hand job... I was shocked and disgusted.

Unfortunately so many women are desperate to get modelling jobs or even TF pictures with good photographers that they will open their legs straight away. Because of that some photographers try their luck- it worked before so why not this time? That makes me appreciate genuine ones even more.

Anyway, his lost! And I don't understand why did he call you fat, he was trying to sleep with you so was it supposed to be an insult or what? Ridiculous, disgusting guy.

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Tim Griffiths wrote:

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

You have made a very broad statement that does not apply to most photographers on this site!

Tim Griffiths wrote:

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Wow.

Tim Griffiths wrote:

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Shhhhhhh, you're suppose to be quite about that, geez! 

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
Wow.

If one reads John Berger's "Ways of Seeing" (classic Art Criticism book) or Susan Sontag's "On Photography" then it's a very well supported theory in the more radical echelons of post modern art criticism. Not saying I agree with it - but there is a lot of academic support for this view of why men photograph naked women.

Tim Griffiths wrote:

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'm going to lose my wo-man card agreeing with this...

Danielle Reid wrote:

I'm going to lose my wo-man card agreeing with this...

Yes you will!   

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

Yes you will!   

Eh...so be it.

Danielle Reid wrote:

Eh...so be it.

Because you are no longer a card carrying wo-man I can no longer photograph you.   

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

As opposed to... the fake world?

I am very famous in the fake world

Virtual Studio wrote:

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

If one reads John Berger's "Ways of Seeing" (classic Art Criticism book) or Susan Sontag's "On Photography" then it's a very well supported theory in the more radical echelons of post modern art criticism. Not saying I agree with it - but there is a lot of academic support for this view of why men photograph naked women.

Let's stipulate that it is 100% true.

All the more reason to create an environment of safety and trust at your shoots.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

So is this the true mentality of a GWC?

I went to art school, paid my dues by assisting, spent a lot on money on gear and shoot a lot of women....nude and non-nude. I'm fortunate to have clients pay me for my skills. I don't need a camera to get laid.

London Fog wrote:
Is this thread for real? C'mon honestly!

Why do you doubt that what she said happened?

James Jackson Fashion wrote:
If you haven't already, email him a simple message telling him that you do not want him to contact you anymore by any method. Don't say anything about reasons or anything else... just something along the lines of "Today is mm-dd-yyyy. As of this date I request and require that you no longer contact me via email, telephone, text message, or any other method."

If he replies call the police and report him for harassment and stalking.

Nice to see someone offer the correct advice rather than opinionated comments.

This is the right step to take.

I would just add that you should CC yourself and if you have one your lawyer... just so there is more than one record of it being sent.

GER Photography wrote:
I am appalled by this thread.

+1

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Of course a man admires a nude woman's figure, that's just the way men are geared, and yes, just about any man running at about 98.6 Fahrenheit with vital signs probably can attest to that. A photographer will photograph what appeals to him / her, and if that happens to be a model, nude or otherwise, hopefully the photographer can handle that, put on the big boy / big girl pants and deal with their hormones and land some fantastic images. Yes, there will always be some asshat floating around with a camera and a hard on wanting sex, what else is new.

GER Photography wrote:
I am appalled by this thread.

What does it say about the world that I'm not surprised?

christiecreepydolls wrote:
I have edited this because admin is helping me but for the future.....

I am guessing this happens to models sometimes, how do you handle it?

I was married years ago, and since that wonderful day, I've had offers from;
Models,
the model's escort,
photographers at camera shows,
cops,
young naive onlookers while on location shoots which I guess I could classify as a model wanna-be?,
waitresses,
high school seniors, etc etc etc

Am I interested when it's offered? HELL YEAH! Who wouldn't be? But, My way of handling it is using the truth,
"I'm a husband. I LOVE my wife and what we have. I will not fuck that up. My wife's well being is more important to me than a short period of pleasure with a stranger. SO JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR, NO! I AM IN NO WAY INTERESTED!"

If me saying that hurts someone's feelings?
GOOD!
They wanted to risk my wife's feelings with their offer.

And also, my wife is a kickboxer instructor, and really good with the rifles and handguns we own...NO FUCKING WAY I am gonna intentionally piss her off.

christiecreepydolls wrote:
Photographer asking for sex

Lucky you.


There is a natural tendency between men and women to sometimes do this sort of thing. It's called perpetuation of the species. It's because of this natural motivation that most of us are here.

It's also possible that these invitations come from people of the same sex, or other permutations.

When presented with an invitation such as this, you basically have two choices:

1. No, thank you.
2. Yes, please.

For extra bonus points, answer me this:

1. What if he was not a photographer? Would that change your interpretation of the situation?

2. If you meet someone you want to date, and you invite them to do something personal with you, should you be CAM'd and talked about in a public forum for doing so?

Tim Griffiths wrote:
Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off.

Some might. Making it a blanket statement sounds like you're projecting.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Oh, so this is my fault that two 50+ men were trying to have sex with me when I was 16 because I pose provocatively for the camera Sure and when a woman wears a mini skirt it's her fault if she gets raped, isn't it? How can a woman be surprised if she gets raped or touched or molested or offered nasty things when she looks sexy, she is asking for it! We should all wear hijab and be completely covered otherwise whatever inappropriate happens we shouldn't be surprised. What kind of mentality is this?! I've worked with many, many photographers who were professional and didn't ask for sex so don't generalize, not every man who wants to become a photographer does it to get pussy.  If you do that's your problem but I think it might be offensive for some people what you wrote here.
And if I wanted to have sex for money or for job I'd become an escort. If some people can't shoot without having sex with models they should hire escorts only.

christiecreepydolls wrote:
I have edited this because admin is helping me but for the future.....

I am guessing this happens to models sometimes, how do you handle it?

First time it happens, say politely "No thanks, and if you ask me again the shoot is over, I'm leaving,  and you owe me for the full amount originally agreed".

If it happens twice, do exactly what you said.

As long as you've got a cell phone, the number of a local taxi service, and the cab fare home, there's no reason to let it upset you - just leave. If he tries to stop you, just quietly call the police.

You wouldn't get very upset by a drunk coming on to you in a nightclub, because you'd know how to deal with it.  It's just a matter of working out how to deal with it when modelling.

MartaBrixton wrote:
Oh no, so sorry to hear that! I'm glad he asked via email so you didn't have to meet him.

Unfortunately, this is not very unusual, it has happened to me many times, especially when I get offered paid jobs.

Just recently I had a shoot with photographer (none of the ones in my portfolio), he seemed to be very happy with the results and offered another one, this time in France. During the first shoot he was trying to kiss me and he was begging me to let him touch my boobs. I told him I don't wish to have psychical contact with him and I thought he understood, after that he was acting professional.

The day before our scheduled 2 days shoot in France I asked about accommodation and he said we will be sharing bed, like it was the most obvious thing ever (from what he was saying apparently all his previous models had no problem at all with sleeping in the same bed with him). I told him this is not an option and I will pay for my own room. Then he got pissed off and cancelled everything because he can't work with someone who's got trust issues.

Once, I went to a different city for a calendar shoot and after the shoot I was told I had to say ''thank you'' (yes, a special thank you) to the photographer (and there were also a ''director''), when I refused I didn't get paid and they didn't use my pictures. After, the photographer send me an email saying I won't achieve anything, I don't know the industry etc. Not to mention that I was like 16 at that time and they were over 50.

Can't count how many times it was suggested to me on the phone or via email that I will have to have sex with someone, I just block them straight away.

Even for normal jobs it can happen, I was trying to get a job as a waitress in a restaurant and the owner asked me for a hand job... I was shocked and disgusted.

Unfortunately so many women are desperate to get modelling jobs or even TF pictures with good photographers that they will open their legs straight away. Because of that some photographers try their luck- it worked before so why not this time? That makes me appreciate genuine ones even more.

Anyway, his lost! And I don't understand why did he call you fat, he was trying to sleep with you so was it supposed to be an insult or what? Ridiculous, disgusting guy.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial.

How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so.

So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

It's neither. It's going into a work situation with expectations of professionalism and being confronted with less than acceptable behavior.

No one's suggesting that photographers always have the purest, angelic thoughts, but it's not a good idea to mix business with pleasure and some photographers can't seem to understand that.

Tim Griffiths wrote:

I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'm sure some do.

How many photographers buy a camera to simply talk to pretty women?

Then again, it depends on your aesthetic. 
I get turned on by landscapes.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

speak for your self. regardless whether I got exited by a model or wanting to have something more with her, I will not show at any way or tell her that. that's just being professional.

words of creepy photographers goes arround. girls do talk, beleive or not. models even more. they protect each other, and they should be doing that all the time, and share experience among them selves. if I behave creepy to one model, many other models I would like to work with will not even consider me for any type of work.

so, if any photographer have problems being professional and to see naked model as just that, a model, artistic or glamour or whathever, s/he should turn to landscape, nature, cars or any other type of photography.

know, having said that, if the model tries somethnig, who am I to complain? I don't have such problems because I'm not handsome and do not have much money, so I'm safe

but the thing is that I'll never try to do anything. I'll just keep shooting.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What a screwed up way of looking at the world.  It is attitudes like yours that made it okay for the corporate execs of the past to expect sex from women who worked for them in return for having the job. 
The fact that men and women are attracted to each other in their personal lives does not make it okay to express those thoughts in the work place.

I don't believe that because I am a male I am required to be disrespectful to women I work with.  Professionals are called that because they understand how to act in the work place.

Whatever happened to treating people with respect?  Randomly asking people for sex is not an understandable behavior after the age of 5.

You are describing the ultimate GWC.  Is that what you aspire to be?
Personally that is not my goal so please don't imply that all photographers think the way you do.

Tim Griffiths wrote:
I don't know whether this is naivety or denial. How can any young woman who takes her clothes off and poses provocatively for the camera be surprised that men want to have sex with her, and sometimes ask for it? Men buy cameras for the express purpose of getting close to young women who take their clothes off. This surely can't be news. Even someone as gifted as Man Ray admitted that his interest in the naked female form was not entirely artistic, or not always so. So how do you think the guy who splurges three grand on kit and then joins up to a model/photographer site looks at it? Hint..wide eyed and pious claims to be purer than St Francis to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Tim, while I respect your opinion, I can't agree with it.

A young woman who is taking her clothes off and posing provocatively on camera is ACTING. Her portrayal is not an open invitation for sex with the photographer.

As a photographer, I often see myself more as a director. I am there to help set a mood with the model. I try to put her in a head space that will allow her to freely and comfortably emote whatever we need on camera. The success of capturing that true and raw emotion comes from building trust. The model trusts that I will let her be vulnerable and we will both remain professional. I won't violate that trust for any reason. Why should any model expect any less?

Jules NYC wrote:
How many photographers buy a camera to simply talk to pretty women?

Then again, it depends on your aesthetic. 
I get turned on by landscapes.

When I was in pilot ground school, our instructor suggested we put our flight calculator on a string and wear it around our neck when we go out at night to have drinks at a bar.



Impressive, wouldn't you say?

Click Hamilton wrote:
When I was in pilot ground school, our instructor suggested we put our flight calculator on a string and wear it around our neck when we go out at night to have drinks at a bar.



Impressive, wouldn't you say?

LOL. Let me guess, it helped you find the co-ordinates to my heart?

AaronPawlak wrote:
how about a simple "no thank you." ?

christiecreepydolls wrote:
I am guessing this happens to models sometimes, how do you handle it?

Edited wrote:
***Edited to include previous steps already completed in model's original post***

If a person you're working with (model, photographer, stylist, escort, whatever) propositions you, you are free to choose to say yes or no.  If you do not appreciate his/her advances, say no very directly (the person bringing this up originally did that).  If the person making the advances continues to ask you for sex or tries to contact you repeatedly even after you've made it clear that you no longer wish to speak with them, or if the advances get more violent, then follow the below advice.

James Jackson Fashion wrote:
If you haven't already, email him a simple message telling him that you do not want him to contact you anymore by any method. Don't say anything about reasons or anything else... just something along the lines of "Today is mm-dd-yyyy. As of this date I request and require that you no longer contact me via email, telephone, text message, or any other method."

If he replies call the police and report him for harassment and stalking.

Just for all of you coming in late to the game... The, in this case, model was approached via email not directly via MM.  She was unsure where the contact information was obtained.  The first message contained allusions to a sexual encounter in addition to her modeling duties, her reply was a "no thanks" to all of it, to which a verbally abusive reply was made.  It was about as clear a case of stalking as anyone has ever typed up, and can obviously happen no matter which side of the camera, or what industry you're in.  Feel free to rejoin the mayhem.

Peter House wrote:

Tim, while I respect your opinion, I can't agree with it.

A young woman who is taking her clothes off and posing provocatively on camera is ACTING. Her portrayal is not an open invitation for sex with the photographer.

As a photographer, I often see myself more as a director. I am there to help set a mood with the model. I try to put her in a head space that will allow her to freely and comfortably emote whatever we need on camera. The success of capturing that true and raw emotion comes from building trust. The model trusts that I will let her be vulnerable and we will both remain professional. I won't violate that trust for any reason. Why should any model expect any less?

Acting probably wasn't the best example to use in your example.

The Grand Artist wrote:
Acting probably wasn't the best example to use in your example.

Why not?

christiecreepydolls wrote:
Photographer asking for sex

Granted, this is a touchy subject.

If a model and photographer would like to date each other I think it would be prudent to approach this subject carefully.

We should carefully think about what we want to say in our opening proposition:

Something like, "Would you be interested to see me on a personal basis as two consenting adults outside of our professional work environment?"

If we decide to pop that question it should be recorded along with the answer, with a proper notification of being recorded, then transcribed, signed by both parties in front of a witness, and notarized with proper ID.

You should be good to go.

Carry on.