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Escort language
Cayleigh Chaos wrote: Kind of amusing that this is so creepy. It came from 3 different models back in the spring, all of whom wanted to bring friends to be in some photos. When something happens several times, proposed by "clients" (in this case, the models), I usually pay attention. Aug 09 14 06:10 am Link PR Zone wrote: Yeah, we have the same thing here in the US aka a "call girl" lol Aug 09 14 10:18 am Link My take on escorts (and it's in my profile): If you want to bring one, bring one but understand the first disruption will end the shoot. I'm all for a model feeling comfortable and if bringing one will make them comfortable, I'm all for it. I've seen escorts make them more nervous, though. I've even had escorts attempt to tell me what angle and/or height I should be shooting to get an "ideal" picture. It was that escort that caused me to change to the first disruption policy. Being that 99.99% of the shoots I do are outdoors in a public place the model chooses, I don't think escorts are necessary at all. For the other .01%, I have listed all the models on MM I've shot with and invite them to contact any or all of them. They aren't just the ones I liked. They can listen to what these people have to say and form their own opinion. Aug 09 14 11:57 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Im guessing the models didnt say they were bringing "cute" friends. By saying "the best escort is a cute friend who would also want to be photographed." as opposed to just saying "bring a friend/another model" it changes the tone/mood of the conversation. Aug 09 14 01:19 pm Link Cayleigh Chaos wrote: My "you" was not targeted at any one person and was meant as a general term. No finger was pointed. Aug 10 14 05:43 am Link You have a policy, thats that. If she won't work within your policy then find someone who will. Aug 10 14 06:29 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Understood that, was just trying to clarify that not all of us who dont like certain things have sticks up our asses Aug 10 14 09:42 am Link There's a restaurant on the first floor of the building. Escorts are allowed to grab coffee, gelato, a sandwich or whatever there. They can also shop the various merchants in the building. They are not allowed in the studio while we are shooting. Aug 10 14 01:27 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: "Photography is my business. As stated in my profile, my business (shoots) are not open to the public but are limited to necessary shoot personnel only. If you insist on bringing such people along with you, we are clearly not compatible and you should seek other photographers to work with. Good day and good luck." Aug 10 14 08:32 pm Link Loki Studio wrote: We'll said Aug 12 14 02:50 pm Link Fotopia wrote: Love it. Aug 12 14 04:15 pm Link PR Zone wrote: Here too. Aug 12 14 04:22 pm Link BlueMoonPics wrote: My photography does not depend on some untrained escort assitant to hold photo reflectors. I have a few cheap bicycle reflectors they can hold if they like...out in the car! Aug 12 14 05:35 pm Link Oh good. Another "escort" thread. I consider myself to have a decent vocabulary, but I have not yet found a way to ask a model to "come alone" without it sounding creepy. Some do. Some don't. Some allow. Some don't. Just find someone you can work and learn that you'll always meet someone you won't be able to work with. Aug 14 14 07:11 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Have a nice day and thank you for your interest. Aug 15 14 12:10 pm Link When a model tells me that she wants to bring an escort I usually reply saying that's ok but that the escort must obey my rules and I list them. Some examples; The escort can't be a brother, father or boyfriend. The escort can not speak to the model or anyone else, at anytime during the shoot, all communication will be between me, the model and my assistant only. The escort must remain in the studio at all times and only use the toilet during the agreed brakes. The escort must remain seated, on a chair placed by me. It will be in an unlit area of the studio. The escort may not use his/her phone during the shoot, as the light from it will distract the model. I create a set of rules that make it unattractive for the escort, who is usually there to nose around or just to satisfy their curiosity. The result is that about 70% of models who want an escort come without one and most of the others cancel. In fairness, in my experience, only a small percentage of models want to bring an escort and often it's company while traveling they want, the friend browses the shops while we're shooting. If a model doesn't cancel but insists on bringing an escort anyway, I will sometimes cancel or else I will warn her that if the escort does anything to interfere with the flow of the shoot, I will call it off and she won't get paid. It depends on the vibe I get from her. Aug 16 14 06:52 am Link I list a few reasons are a no go here....and ask them to let me know if they still would like to shoot. End of discussion. Aug 16 14 07:06 am Link After planning a photoshoot with a model over a two week period, the day before the shoot she tells me she's bringing an escort that had not been mentioned before, I said I don't allow them, she said it was a must and I bowed out of the shoot. She bad mouthed me on her profile and in a forum and sent me a message telling me "no escorts allowed" was very suspicious and I could not be trusted. Since the tide of Mayhem started shifting so strongly toward women who are looking for a fast buck and foregoing the usual path of developing into paid models, and so many hobbyist photographers are accomodating their demands for unwarranted payment and allowing the model to set the on-set terms, it's been necessary to spell out escort terms in the face of what used to ge a given. I think "Escorts" should be a search paramater and mandatory on profiles to save time. Aug 16 14 07:23 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Try... Aug 16 14 07:30 am Link If you have to SELL them on the idea of not having an escort, then....no good. Just state plainly "Sorry, some photographers work with escorts, but I don't. If that is a deal breaker, it's ok, no hard feelings, I will just find another model to work with. Let me know how to proceed." Done. Aug 16 14 06:30 pm Link I decided to try an experiment. I'm wondering if I by talking about not bringing an escort, if I was bringing the focus to "I should have an escort". By saying no, it seems that several of them then start negotiating about who they can bring along. I took all the escort language off my standard info that I sent to the last couple of models who approached me. We'll see if they show up with someone or not. I'm thinking that if the escort causes any sort of problem, I'll just stop the shoot. "I've got all I need, thanks". Sheesh, I appreciate the models doing TF with me for this personal project, but I've got way too much paid work to be doing to waste time if I'm not having fun.  Aug 17 14 05:53 am Link There is some great advise on here. I just agree to the escort, but they have to wait in the lobby or the nearest mcdonalds. The experience I've had with escorts has been great, usually, they feel comfortable when they meet me and entertain themselves for the time. Plus, I always give references if needed. Aug 17 14 06:19 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: There is no easy way to tell or explain why you don't want to deal with escorts. Aug 17 14 06:31 am Link You can't win them all. Weigh it out....whay do you want more, to shoot this model or to uphold your no escort policy? Your call to make. The fact is that you can say that you're a professional all day, but strangers on the internet can say anything. What another model finds comfortable, another may not, as we all communicate differently, interact differently, have different ideas of professionalism, etc....which is why simply checking references may not be enough for some people. Just because someone else says something is okay doesn't mean that it's necessarily okay with me. If I was hypothetically an agency signed model in NYC and my agency was sending me to shoot with someone, I'd feel safe in assuming they were safe and professional because they are backed by something reputable. On MM, we don't have that. We are supposed to take a leap of faith that because someone's pictures are of a good enough quality, that they must also possess good character and be safe, trustworthy people. It goes without saying that things don't work that way (and that models even with top agencies have had some sketchy encounters). I may be in the minority, but I've brought a female friend with me to every first shoot with a new photographer. I've never had a problem, she has never been involved in a shoot other than carrying gear and holding reflectors, and I'm not going to start showing up alone, no matter how old I am or how long I've been modeling. Many photographers with "no escort" policies have had no problem making an exception. I don't post I MUST BRING AN ESCORT all over my profile because it can be a polarizing issue for some, but when brought up professionally in conversation when arranging the shoot, nobody bats an eye. Asking for blind faith from an internet stranger is asking a lot, in my opinion. I wouldn't meet up alone with any internet stranger the first time, under any context. "Checking references, " while good practice, is still relying on the words and experiences of internet strangers who may or may not have similar expectations what goes on during a professional photoshoot situation. I've never had a terrible experience with MM, but I've also maintained the upper hand in calling the shots as far as my safety is concerned. It's not about you, per se, it's about trusting strangers on social media. This is not a professionally monitored arena. Anyone with photos can join. All that said, I'm not trying to start an inflammatory thread, and it's your call to make. Just trying to shed some light on the opposing side of the "no escorts" debate, as this was posted in the modeling forum and most replies are from photographers who share your viewpoint. . Aug 22 14 11:31 pm Link Seriously, this whole escort sh*t is ridiculous. if you're that freaked about your safety, don't model. Or learn to tell a pro from his pics and you won't even think about taking an escort. End of rant. Aug 23 14 01:15 am Link Magda Kulpinska wrote: Magda, you're my hero. Aug 23 14 01:24 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: honestly, it was all of your explaining about the times when escorts made you and/or the model feel uncomfortable, etc that concerned her. Aug 25 14 10:55 am Link Magda Kulpinska wrote: I think this is a little unfair! Aug 25 14 11:29 am Link It's an opportunity to educate & create understanding, if you're capable of it? Aug 25 14 11:40 am Link Move on. If you are so set in your ways that you won't bend on allowing an escort, and she is so set in her ways that she won't shoot without having an escort you both have a brick wall between you. Move on. Aug 25 14 11:48 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: I had that happen once too. The more people involved, the greater the chances that one of them will have a problem. Aug 25 14 03:17 pm Link IMHO, your mistake was simply stating from the get go that escorts were not allowed, and explaining why, when it really wasn't the best time to bring it up: it was simply too forward and too negative. It would have been better if you simply stated that you do not like it when models bring along surprise guests to a shoot and merely request that models ask before bringing along someone. Models who do not use escorts will understand what you're saying, while those that do will ask if they can bring their mother/sister/boyfriend/etc to come along. It's at that point you can find out why they want one, and discuss it from there. Aug 26 14 02:05 am Link Do I detect some common sense creeping into an escort thread? The people willing to at least talk about having an escort at a shoot are usually outnumbered by the 'No Escort' and 'Next!' knee-jerkers, but that hasn't happened in this thread. Rather refreshing. Aug 26 14 04:06 am Link I suppose I've mellowed a bit on the topic. The only escorts I've had problems with are jealous/controlling boyfriends who are bent on sabotaging the shoot (and invariably succeed). I've had no problems with husbands (a couple of whom became good friends), fiances, parents, sisters, sorority sisters, girl friends, Lesbian lovers... I won't go into the stories about the three boyfriends who sabotaged shoots and the one who tried to steal a $1,400 lens from me here. You can find them in other escort threads. So now I just tell models that they can bring an escort, as long as it isn't the model's boyfriend - and then I explain why in excruciating detail. I did allow a fourth model, who is represented by Elite Model Management's NYC office, to bring her boyfriend, because a) they were traveling together and only had one car, and b) I knew that Elite wouldn't put up with that crap - and there was no problem. Aug 26 14 04:57 am Link L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote: "Trust me" Aug 26 14 01:50 pm Link Personally bringing an escort makes me feel safe when working with a photographer I have not worked with before. If we shoot again I probably won't bring an escort if I feel comfortable with you. A lot of people who do not allow escorts turn out to be perverts so it does not surprise me that she didn't want to shoot with you when you said no escorts. Some models have had bad experiences from not bringing an escort, they are looking out for their own piece of mind and their safety. If you said the escort can't engage in the shoot or cause distractions, that's comforting. However if you say no escorts, come by yourself, it sounds like you're planning a kidnapping. Aug 29 14 05:59 pm Link Magda Kulpinska wrote: Even good photographers can make you feel uncomfortable. The more comfortable you feel the better your pictures turn out. Aug 29 14 06:03 pm Link KyndraJ wrote: ...and when I see boyfriends behind me with hunting knives on their belt, I expect to be stabbed when I turn to face the model. Aug 29 14 06:30 pm Link Herman Surkis wrote: Last week my landlady's contractor was going to come and clean the building. Gosh I was so looking forward to having some help with odds n ends at the three floors that I am renting in this huge loft. He also used to do odds n ends for the landlords and knows the building well. However, when he showed up his 'girlfriend/fiance' was with him. Aug 29 14 06:31 pm Link Not worth the drama, just say no thanks. Aug 29 14 06:41 pm Link |
