Lightcraft Studio wrote:
Well, of course not... no amount of real world experience is a match for an IE (Internet Expert).

It has nothing to do with either your experience or mine in any field

It has do do with you being completely wrong in basically everything you've said.. demonstrably so. 

Maybe you should have used your extensive real world experience before you put your fingers on the keyboard... that way you wouldn't have been wrong.

I'm sure you'll learn for next time.

Hopefully you were better at your job than your current posting seems to imply you are capable of.

Robb Mann wrote:
Just checked, and Im not eligible to upgrade until NEXT October. I was trying to stretch my 4s until the 6, but it died a horrible death back in March and I had to buy a 5s.

If someone in my life (wife or parents, really) wants a hand-me down 5 then I'll pick up a 5s for myself (all three have iPhone 4's).  If not then I'll keep mine for at least another year.. hopefully Apple will come to their senses and release a 4" version of the 6 (or 6s or whatever comes out next year).. I'm not holding my breath though.

If history is any indiction then 4" phones (the 5s, in particular) will be available for at least another 2 years.  After that I'll have to bite the bullet and get a bigger phone.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:

You completely missed the point... I didn't say people don't replace things... I said most people do so on their own schedule, not the manufacturer's schedule.

If I'm buying a new car, laptop, etc. I'll do so when I'm ready to do so. I'll read reviews, compare features and when the time is right, I will make my purchase.

You seem to be taking this observation personally... it's just my opinion of how the situation appears every time Apple comes out with the next version of something and there are people lined up waiting for the stores to open.

I think Apple has managed to create a mindset where their consumers think that they're cool for owning an Apple X, Y or Z, and can only remain cool if they have the absolute latest version of these products. It's a formula that works, so kudos to them for pulling it off.

I'm curious as to how you know they're NOT replacing them on their own schedule. Have you polled EVERY Apple user??  If so, you missed me and sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not replacing my phone.. I did recently, no need to now, it works perfectly fine.. And I replaced NOT because of Apple's schedule but because we now have more 4G/LTE service in my area..

IMHO you're just putting your own stereotype of Apple users on this situation and really have no clue as to the reasons.. Given the number of people who use iPhones/iPads I don't think it's out of the norm that there will be thousands of people looking to upgrade during a new cycle.. You know, kinda like those people that prefer to lease a car as opposed to buying outright.. They seem to upgrade every 2-4 years..

Wye wrote:
And nobody's ever waited in line for a samsung phone.. never ever.. that's for sure

This straw man argument is so old and weak, it's frustrating to see it come up as some kind of defense that the iPhones are so much more desirable.

What you fail to understand is that Samsung, for example, makes multiple phones -- not just one new phone every year. They release several phones throughout the year, therefore spreading out the demand. Add in all of the Android manufacturers--same thing. So of course there aren't lines.

Is it a good thing that people have to stand in line or backorder a product? Not from a customer perspective.

Last I checked, Android still has over 50% of the U.S. market share. So to use your reference, if Samsung was the sole Android phone manufacturer and only released one new phone a year, you can bet your ass there would be a line.

But as a customer, I'm glad there is not.


BTW - I didn't read through the whole thread, but Verizon is offering the iPhone 16GB for free (eligible users only) if you trade in your old working iPhone.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
This straw man argument is so old and weak, it's frustrating to see it come up as some kind of defense that the iPhones are so much more desirable.

What you fail to understand is that Samsung, for example, makes multiple phones -- not just one new phone every year. They release several phones throughout the year, therefore spreading out the demand. Add in all of the Android manufacturers--same thing. So of course there aren't lines.

Psst.

I was being sarcastic.. right after I wrote that I linked to a picture showing people who, in fact, were waiting in line to buy a samsung phone. EDIT: and an article discussing same.

Is it a good thing that people have to stand in line or backorder a product? Not from a customer perspective.

Last I checked, Android still has over 50% of the U.S. market share. So to use your reference, if Samsung was the sole Android phone manufacturer and only released one new phone a year, you can bet your ass there would be a line.

But as a customer, I'm glad there is not.


BTW - I didn't read through the whole thread,

Maybe try reading entire posts as a start...

JJMiller wrote:
"According the Shuttleworth, this makes Ubuntu phone a proper personal computer where Android is not. He also said Ubuntu phone wasn't aimed at iPhone users, who have an "emotional connection" with the ecosystem."

As demonstrated here!

I don't know about anyone else but I just have an emotional connection with people spreading falsehoods.

Lumatic wrote:
Agreed.  But you still seem to be saying Apple is the cause of it all, and that it's THE way Apple customers behave.  In which case, you're not dealing with reality.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
I don't think Apple is the cause of it all, nor do I think they invented the concept (after all, they've only  been around for 38 years). I do however think that they have mastered the concept and have taken it to a whole new level.  This is to their credit, and their company (and shareholders) have benefited immensely as a result. I don't think it's a great benefit to those consumers who do get pulled into that sort of thinking and spend more than they need to spend for things.

They have mastered the concept, and on a huge scale, no doubt about it.  I think we can all agree on that, and I also personally feel that it's not entirely necessary to get the newest and shiniest thing just because it's new and shiny.  Just be aware that what fueled this debate is the fact that you kept overlaying your own judgement about what benefits other people and what they need, while apparently singling Apple out. 

These are your words, remember:

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
Most of us buy new ones when WE say we're ready to do so, not when the manufacturer says "ready, set...buy!".
<snip>
It's an interesting phenomenon, and I can only assume that Apple's marketing strategy is the root cause for this behavior.

One of those articles you posted addressed the issue of how identity comes into play.  It definitely does - I posted another thread related to that the other day.  But then, that also raises questions about what people actually need, and who's to say so.  That's a whole other can of worms.

Anyway, you also said this, which is purely anecdotal:

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
Actually, I've never (or very rarely at least) seen this sort of thing with other phones or other types of products before (unless of course it's some one-day price-slashed sale or something).

Ever been around a group of cyclists?  Man, those guys are even more rabid about their gear than Apple customers, and not just the road racers.  The minute Cervelo comes out with a new bike that's 10 grams lighter, or SRAM updates their DoubleTap shifters, they go nuts.

Speaking of bikes, it's the same with motorcycles.  Check in with some Harley-Davidson or Kawasaki forums during the next rollout.  They're all over it, despite the fact that there's nothing wrong with their current ride.  You think Apple fans are emotional, try laying this on their doorstep.  Hah, bring your Nomex!

I suggest that the difference we're really talking about is scale and scope.

Connor Photography wrote:
After all the bitching about Apple on the other thread, who are there to order their iPhne 6 right after mid-nite tonite.

I guess it will be me, 16GB iPhone 6 for $199.  My iPhone 4 is still relative new, so I hope I can get some money by selling on eBay.  So 4 years use for $200, it is not too bad.  I can live with it.

AT&T will grandfather me the unlimited data plan for $99 per month, or give up my unlimited data for 2GB data plan for $65.

I am not sure what to do.

No way. Don't surrender your data plan unless you are truly crunched for cash. If you're still at 99 for that, way to go! Exploit that internet! >

- Aina - wrote:
No way. Don't surrender your data plan unless you are truly crunched for cash. If you're still at 99 for that, way to go! Exploit that internet! >

these folks still holding on to at&t's ancient og iphone 'unlimited data' plans are a bane. first off--AGAIN--they THROTTLE your data usage after 2 gigs. what normal person needs that much data a month to begin with? and secondly, don't you find it just a little gluttonous to have to use 10's of gigs a month?....on a phone?

at&t has no balls. they've been threatening to shut down that albatross for years, and never do. i don't see what they're afraid of. do they really think all those iLeeches are going to go somewhere else?

GK photo wrote:
these folks still holding on to at&t's ancient og iphone 'unlimited data' plans are a bane. first off--AGAIN--they THROTTLE your data usage after 2 gigs. what normal person needs that much data a month to begin with? and secondly, don't you find it just a little gluttonous to have to use 10's of gigs a month?....on a phone?

at&t has no balls. they've been threatening to shut down that albatross for years, and never do. i don't see what they're afraid of. do they really think all those iLeeches are going to go somewhere else?

I see a lot of people streaming video and music on their commutes.  That's some data-heavy stuff.

What's your stake in whether or not AT&T discontinues unlimited data?

Lumatic wrote:
They have mastered the concept, no doubt about it.  I think we can all agree on that, and I also feel that it's not entirely necessary to get the newest and shiniest thing just because it's new and shiny.  Just be aware that what fueled this debate is the fact that you keep overlaying your own judgement about what benefits other people and what they need, with Apple as the scapegoat, and justifying that judgement with anecdotal evidence culled from your own perspective.

Well, I don't think I'm making any judgements of anyone, nor am I making Apple out as a scapegoat for anything.

I'm simply stating my opinion based on a lot of observation. I'm a news junkie, so I watch and read a lot of news from different sources. In my experience, the "waiting in line for the store to open to be the first to buy..." types of stories are a constant when it comes to Apple products. Sure there are camera buyers who will jump on the new model the second it's available, and there are other examples as well. But, the one that's MOST consistently out there in the news, with the biggest numbers of people, is always Apple.

It's difficult to believe that any objective person can deny that this activity is indeed seen more with Apple releases than anything else.

Some folks on here seem to take these comments/observations as some sort of slam against Apple (or their customers), even though I keep saying that I applaud Apple for being able to achieve this sort of frenzy on such a consistent basis. I don't know why people get so upset over such a discussion... I find that to be somewhat irrational.

Having had a career in measuring and studying consumer behavior, I feel that I at least have a right to express my own opinion without receiving personal attacks from people who have a different opinion.

Lumatic wrote:
What's your stake in whether or not AT&T discontinues unlimited data?

none, since i never had that plan. but it's absolutely silly that people can keep upgrading devices from the same manufacturer, and continue to leech all this bandwidth. that was 2008. besides, i thought apple buyers were a loyal bunch. do they really need the incentive of a (throttled) unlimited plan to keep them in the orchard?

that doesn't sound too brand loyal to me.

verizon doesn't have that deal. sprint doesn't have that deal. why does at&t need it? clue...original exclusive iphone distributor.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
Well, I don't think I'm making any judgements of anyone, nor am I making Apple out as a scapegoat for anything.

I'm simply stating my opinion based on a lot of observation. I'm a news junkie, so I watch and read a lot of news from different sources. In my experience, the "waiting in line for the store to open to be the first to buy..." types of stories are a constant when it comes to Apple products. Sure there are camera buyers who will jump on the new model the second it's available, and there are other examples as well. But, the one that's MOST consistently out there in the news, with the biggest numbers of people, is always Apple.

It's difficult to believe that any objective person can deny that this activity is indeed seen more with Apple releases than anything else.

Some folks on here seem to take these comments/observations as some sort of slam against Apple (or their customers), even though I keep saying that I applaud Apple for being able to achieve this sort of frenzy on such a consistent basis. I don't know why people get so upset over such a discussion... I find that to be somewhat irrational.

Having had a career in measuring and studying consumer behavior, I feel that I at least have a right to express my own opinion without receiving personal attacks from people who have a different opinion.

I think it's the fact that [like you said you do], news junkies get all your information from different news media.

It's great that the news networks report on such things but I have noticed that there is much more to the stories and points and facts that are NOT always reported or even complete.

So many times have I watched the Apple Keynotes where detailed explanation of hardware and software is laid out and the development and reasons behind them. Turn on the news and already within minutes major points were forgotten.

Same with the latest on the people camping out last weekend in front of the Manhattan Apple Store. It wasn't revealed that a third party tech company paid these people to sit there to draw attention. Apple had nothing to do with it but the news never researched their own story and reported something that was simply superficial.

Wye wrote:
I was being sarcastic.. right after I wrote that I linked to a picture showing people who, in fact, were waiting in line to buy a samsung phone. EDIT: and an article discussing same.

Perhaps it's the way you're posting. There was nothing sarcastic in what you wrote in your post, and no indication from the photo it was sarcastic. So now we're posting entire paragraphs in one tone (no indication of sarcasm) and expect us readers to click on a link to see something that is the opposite? Come on.

Secondly, others who shall remain nameless HAVE brought this argument up in a serious matter. So my points still stand, because the argument from the hardcore fanboy crowd still exists.

Maybe try reading entire posts as a start...

I noticed how you took that comment out of context for your convenience by not listing what I wrote right after that...about the Verizon deal. My comment was that I didn't read every post to see if anyone how brought up that promotion. I had read the entire thread through your comments and after regarding the issue you brought up, to which I wasn't the only that didn't get your "sarcasm."

Sleepy Weasel wrote:

Perhaps it's the way you're posting. There was nothing sarcastic in what you wrote in your post, and no indication from the photo it was sarcastic. So now we're posting entire paragraphs in one tone (no indication of sarcasm) and expect us readers to click on a link to see something that is the opposite? Come on.

*shrug* That entire post was listing examples refuting Lightcraft's assertion that he'd never seen anyone but apple customers (and people after a sale) lining up for products.. there was even a picture! It says "Samsung galaxy S" on the building!

Aside from saying "and this right here is a photo showing proof that people will wait in line for a samsung phone" I don't think it could have been any more clear.  I will do so next time.

Secondly, others who shall remain nameless HAVE brought this argument up in a serious matter. So my points still stand, because the argument from the hardcore fanboy crowd still exists.

And they're wrong.. since people beside apple customers do wait in line for phones that they want.. so the point is moot.  Your counterargument about it being better for customers if there's no wait *might* be true if waiting in a massive, ridiculous (fuck man.. I won't wait in line for food.. I ain't waiting for a phone) line was the only way to get an iPhone (or, as I've shown.. a Samsung Galaxy phone).. but it's not.

The people who wait in line *choose* to wait in line -- for whatever reason probably because they find it fun or they get some feeling of satisfaction by getting it in their hands right away.. what do I (or you or Lightcraft) care?

It's like the people who will wait in line for *hours* to see a movie on opening night.  They (again, inexplicably to me.. but to each their own) place importance on seeing the movie right away and they're willing to pay for that not only with the ticket price but their own time.

As long as people are getting what they want, when they want it then I don't get this bullshit high horse "I don't do it the way they do it so I'm better than them" attitude that always comes out when people say they hate apple and everything they represent and that their users are sheep and tards.

Connor Photography wrote:
AT&T will grandfather me the unlimited data plan for $99 per month, or give up my unlimited data for 2GB data plan for $65.

Wow that's expensive!  I have unlimited data, texts, and calls (including long distance to mobiles in 10 countries and landlines in over 50) for €20 a month.

As for Apple, forcing this new U2 album on me is making me look very hard at buying a Samsung...

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
It's difficult to believe that any objective person can deny that this activity is indeed seen more with Apple releases than anything else.

More often maybe since they release phones more often.. but, as I've shown it's happened with every playstation release since 2000, every xbox release, even the most recent samsung galaxy release.  So yes.. an objective person who actually looks at the world around them can deny that it is seen more with Apple products than anything else.

Some folks on here seem to take these comments/observations as some sort of slam against Apple (or their customers), even though I keep saying that I applaud Apple for being able to achieve this sort of frenzy on such a consistent basis. I don't know why people get so upset over such a discussion... I find that to be somewhat irrational.

Who's getting upset? What I find distasteful is blatant mistruths that propagate which people seem to be prone to believe. I have free time so I counter the mistruths with the real truth  -- in this case that this phenomenon isn't even *remotely* an Apple thing.  It was here long before iPhones.. it is exhibited by other people now and will continue long after apple is a distant memory.

Having had a career in measuring and studying consumer behavior, I feel that I at least have a right to express my own opinion without receiving personal attacks from people who have a different opinion.

You have the right to have an opinion.. you also have the right to express it.  You even have the right to be completely and utterly wrong.  But you don't have the right not to hear that you're wrong and be shown how and why that is the case.

Wye wrote:

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
It's difficult to believe that any objective person can deny that this activity is indeed seen more with Apple releases than anything else.

More often maybe since they release phones more often.. but, as I've shown it's happened with every playstation release since 2000, every xbox release, even the most recent samsung galaxy release.  So yes.. an objective person who actually looks at the world around them can deny that it is seen more with Apple products than anything else.

Some folks on here seem to take these comments/observations as some sort of slam against Apple (or their customers), even though I keep saying that I applaud Apple for being able to achieve this sort of frenzy on such a consistent basis. I don't know why people get so upset over such a discussion... I find that to be somewhat irrational.

Who's getting upset? What I find distasteful is blatant mistruths that propagate which people seem to be prone to believe. I have free time so I counter the mistruths with the real truth  -- in this case that this phenomenon isn't even *remotely* an Apple thing.  It was here long before iPhones.. it is exhibited by other people now and will continue long after apple is a distant memory.



You have the right to have an opinion.. you also have the right to express it.  You even have the right to be completely and utterly wrong.  But you don't have the right not to hear that you're wrong and be shown how and why that is the case.

You are the most biased person in this thread and are resorting to Soapbox style arguments.  It's fun to watch but useless to try and discuss anything with you. 

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Jumping up to the 100,000 foot perspective.

When the iPhone first came out, it was the only smartphone choice, and appropriately Apple stock soared.  But a few years later, when the Apple fans predicted that the stock price would continue to double & triple year after year, I scoffed.  I predicted...
...  The competition will catch up (which they have),
...  Apple will have to shift from innovation to competition (which it has),
...  Apple will need to depend more on marketing to its installed base, as
     opposed to gaining new customers (which has happened),
...  Stock prices will plateau out (which it has, factoring the 7:1 split).

Still, the Apple faithful would post predictions of (pre-7:1 split) prices of around 1600 by years end -- that basically means that Apple's stock would have to double in value in the next 3 months.  No, I don't see that happening.  I offered to make a friendly wager on the stock price, but the Apple fanatics refused to take me up on it.

Wye wrote:
You're being disingenuous.  You talk as if all the people who like apple products were talking like this when it was, to my recollection, just one.  Very misleading.

Fair enough -- I didn't express myself clearly.  But, to my recollection, it was 2 or 3, not 1, but your point stands.

My point, however, is that the marketplace has changed & changed rapidly.  The strategies that were wildly successful in, say, 2004 would not be so successful today.  That's the point I'm trying to make, and the vast majority of the responses to this thread seem to underline my point.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I predicted...

...  Stock prices will plateau out (which it has, factoring the 7:1 split).

So, I told you so.  Years ago.

The stock has "plateau out" at very close to it's ALL TIME HIGH.

Now that's T.F.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Jumping up to the 100,000 foot perspective.

When the iPhone first came out, it was the only smartphone choice, and appropriately Apple stock soared.  But a few years later, when the Apple fans predicted that the stock price would continue to double & triple year after year, I scoffed.  I predicted...
...  The competition will catch up (which they have),
...  Apple will have to shift from innovation to competition (which it has),
...  Apple will need to depend more on marketing to its installed base, as
     opposed to gaining new customers (which has happened),
...  Stock prices will plateau out (which it has, factoring the 7:1 split).

Still, the Apple faithful would post predictions of (pre-7:1 split) prices of around 1600 by years end -- that basically means that Apple's stock would have to double in value in the next 3 months.  No, I don't see that happening.  I offered to make a friendly wager on the stock price, but the Apple fanatics refused to take me up on it.

Wye wrote:
You're being disingenuous.  You talk as if all the people who like apple products were talking like this when it was, to my recollection, just one.  Very misleading.

Fair enough -- I didn't express myself clearly.  But, to my recollection, it was 2 or 3, not 1, but your point stands.

My point, however, is that the marketplace has changed & changed rapidly.  The strategies that were wildly successful in, say, 2004 would not be so successful today.  That's the point I'm trying to make, and the vast majority of the responses to this thread seem to underline my point.

The competition has caught up, I guess. Some would say they've eclipsed Apple, but then who assigned Apple as the tech leader in the first place? Not me.

Apple has not stopped innovating. They made a tablet that introduced a market that people actually entered. Sure, there were tablets before, but now everyone has one.  I will not be surprised when everyone has a wearable in 3 years.

It would be impossible for Apple to continue to gain market share in a market that undercuts them drastically on price. Just because you can buy an Android tablet at TigerDirect for $39 doesn't mean it's an iPad.

And as far as the stock goes, there are just as many people who have been predicting the complete demise of Apple as a company and their stock price.  Year after year.  With each new product announcement, THIS is the one that will destroy them.

If you look at a 5 year chart, you'll see a 400% steady gain. Their stock has NOT plateaued.  Anyone with eyes and a chart can see it.  Of course it's not 1600 (230 adjusted post split) It's also not 30. 


When people make bizarre statements, I have to question their motives. Why do people hate Apple and their products so much? Do they need to justify their alternate choice in the face of a popular choice?  Are they just so stubborn to not join the masses (which they repeatedly remind us is NOT the majority) that they need to insult either our intelligence or call us sheep, blindly buying things we don't need because our mothership tells us to?

I don't care about your choice in consumerism.  I LOVE the Sony Xperia phone. I like my parents Samsung phones.  But I will tell you this much.  When I complement someone else's phone, about 50% of the time, they tell me how much it sucks and how they can't wait to get a new one. (Not usually iphone though)  however, I don't know anyone who hates their iPhone, but can't wait to get a NEW iPhone.  This personal observation tells me volumes about the user experience with Apple and iPhones. 

Apple made us love a product so much that we don't care that it's more expensive than other products. We don't care that other products do more or have done more for years. We don't care that most of our friends all have the same phone/tablet/laptop.  And for some reason, this makes you feel negatively toward us and toward Apple.

Why?


And when I say "you" I don't mean you specifically. I mean people who speak out so loudly about a consumer choice you haven't made and are certainly not forced to make.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
When people make bizarre statements, I have to question their motives. Why do people hate Apple and their products so much? Do they need to justify their alternate choice in the face of a popular choice?  Are they just so stubborn to not join the masses (which they repeatedly remind us is NOT the majority) that they need to insult either our intelligence or call us sheep, blindly buying things we don't need because our mothership tells us to?

I may have missed a post or two in this rapidly growing thread, but overall I don't see where people are expressing "hate" for Apple or their products.  Since the thread started out discussing making a purchase as soon as humanly possible when their latest product becomes available, the thread went on to discuss what drives this consumer behavior for something that is not a life or death need for anyone. Instead of expressing "hate", we're examining Apple's success in this area.

Apple, in a relatively short time, has become the largest (at least in capitalization) company in the world. This feat naturally makes it a frequent subject of study by people in the fields of marketing, consumerism, social behavior studies, and so on. Everyone wants to understand success... I saw it in the 1980's with Walmart within the retail sector, I saw it with BMW in the late 1970's/early 1980's, as well as others. Prius is another relatively recent brand which has gotten a lot of attention/study in this way.

Students study Apple's approach... for example here's one thesis on the topic:
http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/v … xt=masters

Don't confuse an attempt to rationally discuss something as "hate". What people DO hate is being talked down to and dismissed out of hand by people who expect others to accept their position without any rational debate or discussion.

Topics like this can make for very interesting discussion, especially for those of us who do or have had a career examining these sorts of things. But, we need to set emotion aside if we're going to make any progress and actually learn anything.

What Fun Productions wrote:
I want to thank everyone who still find pride in buying American products.

Thank you!

I take pride in buying American made products. Is there an American made phone you would suggest my looking into?

Evan Hiltunen wrote:

I take pride in buying American made products. Is there an American made phone you would suggest my looking into?

Motorola's Moto X is made in Fort Worth, TX.

As far as I know, that's the only one at this time.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:

Motorola's Moto X is made in Fort Worth, TX.

As far as I know, that's the only one at this time.

Might be worth looking at, in person, when I need to upgrade phones.

Evan Hiltunen wrote:

I take pride in buying American made products. Is there an American made phone you would suggest my looking into?

With phones, you should be mindful of where profits end up.

What Fun Productions wrote:
I want to thank everyone who still find pride in buying American products.

Thank you!

yes sir.. i bought a bag of domestically-grown apples, just the other day

r T p wrote:


yes sir.. i bought a bag of domestically-grown apples, just the other day

I did too.  We grow apples in northern Michigan.

Lohkee wrote:
I dunno about this thread.

It's **YOUR** freaking money. If it makes you happy and you want to buy it, then who gives a flying-fuck what other people think. No justification needed.

I'm out.

The same people who think other people are stupid for waiting in line for several hours after thanksgiving dinner (or before) for that cheap TV or hard to get toy of the year.

Not sure why they assign brain cells to the thoughts. Life is all about choices. You don't have to agree with or even accept the ones I make. I don't care about the ones you make.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

The same people who think other people are stupid for waiting in line for several hours after thanksgiving dinner (or before) for that cheap TV or hard to get toy of the year.

Not sure why they assign brain cells to the thoughts. Life is all about choices. You don't have to agree with or even accept the ones I make. I don't care about the ones you make.

Then we would probably get along just fine.

Evan Hiltunen wrote:
I take pride in buying American made products. Is there an American made phone you would suggest my looking into?

What Fun Productions wrote:
With phones, you should be mindful of where profits end up.

aren't a major chunk of apple's profits ending up in ireland these days?

where do motorola's profits go?