Koryn wrote:
After all this time, I still can't seem to convince her that it isn't like high school, and graduating late doesn't mean you failed a bunch of classes.

Agreed. My sister started college at 22 or so. She finished at 44 or so. She still has a degree. Does it matter when she got it? So what if 20 years passed. If it took you an extra semester, that's fine. Even people who graduate from high school "late" doesn't always mean they failed a bunch of classes. I know someone who moved to a different district. The new district said the old district's curriculum didn't match up with theirs so they'd have to repeat the grade.

Some people call it ribbing. I call it annoying.

The F-Stop wrote:
$65/semester.... cuny 1970

You were paying way too much.  You must have too much money.  CUNY was a pubic school with an open admission. Everyone was admitted and were free for all in the 70's   

Connor Photography wrote:

You were paying way too much.  You must have too much money.  CUNY was a pubic school with an open admission. Everyone was admitted and were free for all in the 70's   

It's sad what happened to CUNY. Started out free but very hard to get into and was the choice for the large (hungry to succeed but poor) immigrant masses in NY. it's grads had a reputation as being fiercely bright.

Then they slackened off the admit criteria in the name of inclusivity.

These days it's seen as third tier at best. Real real shame.

Connor Photography wrote:
You were paying way too much.  You must have too much money.  CUNY was a pubic school with an open admission. Everyone was admitted and were free for all in the 70's   

Virtual Studio wrote:
It's sad what happened to CUNY. Started out free but very hard to get into and was the choice for the large (hungry to succeed but poor) immigrant masses in NY. it's grads had a reputation as being fiercely bright.

Then they slackened off the admit criteria in the name of inclusivity.

These days it's seen as third tier at best. Real real shame.

Yes, I feel you pain dearly.  CCNY was one of best engineering school in the country.  The open admission killed it all.  The school spent so much money and effort on student that should be in High school. 

I spent one year there and destined to become an engineer.  Because of health issue of my mother, i gave up engineering and turned myself to become a medicine man. I promised my parents that I would provide them the best medical care for the rest of their life.  Both me and my brother took up medicine and never looked back. 

Yes, the name CCNY really brings back the sad memory, just like the name Kodak.  It taught me a valuable lesson.  Nothing is permanently.  One must keep reinventing yourself or you will go down. 

Becks wrote:
And I mean the amount in terms of cash paid and student loans, don't include the amount you got in the form of grants/scholarship that you didn't have to pay back. Basically, I'm interested in your debt per year

I'm honestly just curious about the difference between schools in terms of cost beyond the paper listed tuition amount-- a lot of private schools charge more for tuition but turn around and give a lot more  back in the form of grants, so your debt per year actually ends up lower than at a public school which may have a lower price tag but offer less in the form of grants/scholarship.

This is completely random and a curiosity spawned by getting my financial aid award letter for next fall, haha.

I went to a private school for my graduate work, (in nursing.) I have been out of school and working in my field for over 8 years and I am still trying to eliminate my student loan!

Jen

Virtual Studio wrote:

It's sad what happened to CUNY. Started out free but very hard to get into and was the choice for the large (hungry to succeed but poor) immigrant masses in NY. it's grads had a reputation as being fiercely bright.

Then they slackened off the admit criteria in the name of inclusivity.

These days it's seen as third tier at best. Real real shame.

I, too, am a CUNY Grad. Are the Profs still 'among the nations highest paid'?

Then they slackened off the admit criteria in the name of inclusivity. Around 1970 it became 'open admission'.
Started out free as of about 1980 it was almost free.

Conversation overheard,
Mayor 'free tuition is a precious tradition'.
Rockefeller [Gov] 'traditions are fine IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM'.

martin b wrote:
I think it was around $1500 for 3 quarters in the UC system in the late 80s.  I don't remember.  I was a typical fob.  I lived 4 people in a room.  My rent was around 125 per month.  I ate alot of crap like hot dogs and ramen. 

In graduate school they said I needed about $14k a year but I got a teaching discount and a little grant money.  I think it was probably closer to 8k.  I worked construction a lot and my sister gave me money.  I got out pretty debt free and I was able to buy a shitty plymoth arrow new.

We get a ton of immigrants at RIT too, I guess because of the huge engineering program here... Mostly kids from India that like to congregate on the quiet floors of the library and talk loudly on their cell phones.

martin b wrote:
haha,  I was part of the geeky chinese/filipino fob crowd.  We didn't get along with the Indians.  We thought they needed hygiene lessons.

Hahaaa... you are so bad .  I heard that all the time as I was growing up.  My parents believed that Cheese is the cause of BO.  They didn't eat cheese and we couldn't eat cheese.  .....hahahah.

Becks wrote:
We get a ton of immigrants at RIT too, I guess because of the huge engineering program here... Mostly kids from India that like to congregate on the quiet floors of the library and talk loudly on their cell phones.

This is the saddest part of we being Americans.  We no long believe in higher education. Most people would rather get a lousy job with no future and lease a new car and party all week.  If you look into the grad school in the best research universities in this country, you will hardly see an American born student.  They all have accent and hardly speak English   from China, India, Pakistan, Middle East, or Africa.  These grad students will become the tomorrow leaders in their chosen field.  About 15 years ago, I visited my old grad school adviser and asked why there are so few white or black students in the program.  He frankly told me that there are no applicants from north America.  My old school was the best in the world in my field, fully funded by NIH grants and private companies.  No students are required to pay a penny to university.  In addition, they will receive over 10K a year tax free stipend, but there is no taker. 

How short sighted we have become in the last 50 years?  How the fuccck we can compete in the world stage with others?  China and India will eat us alive.  I fear for my children's generation and beyond. 

Perhaps, that is why I would rather be lost in photography.  I am getting old and feeling tired.  I have paid my dues, I have done my part of saving lives and improving the quality of life of others, I have raised two beautiful children who are destined to a good leader and will serve well for the human kind.  I have mentored and helped more than a dozen young men and young women to become their best. 

It is time for me to retreat to a simple life.  I will return to the sea where life began and evolved with my little BIG sailboat. I have been humbled by the mighty power of the angry sea; I was not afraid.  I will sail and sail to the end of time where the fly fishes, dolphins, turtles and whales are my frequent visitors. 

No regrets and life is grand. 

martin b wrote:
I'm also curious why so few Americans have graduate degrees.  Anyone can explain?  American grad schools are 70% Asian. Our president of the Philippines is American educated for example.

Arguable if it's worth it anymore, in the USA. In Canada a lot of places require a masters, particularly in teaching (not all). Last I looked at a marketing masters it ranged 40 grand on the low, for the 2 years, in tuition. When i looked at queens it was something like 80 for my degree. For the most part I find masters and grad students are a lot older than the undergrad crowd. 30-40 and above, something you do later in life. I go to the top research university in Canada

martin b wrote:
Conner Photography.  You were lucky to attend good university.  I wish I could have afforded Ivy league.  I always felt lucky to have been able to afford the UC system though.  Foreigners are subjected to higher tuition fees.

A friend of mine from india is paying $1500 a course, whereas I pay about 550. It's nearly 3 times the cost without subsidies

I asked a prof why this was like it and he said "Because they can afford it"
Which is ironically true, people coming here from overseas... most of them are from very, very, very wealthy families. I've met a sliding scale of people who have money vs those who don't.. more so the international students are the ones who are the wealthy, rather than the local. In general in alberta especially, the parking lots here are full of high end trucks or cars - not uncommon to see a student ripping around in a brand new sports car, or a 50 000 $ truck. lol

Becks wrote:
And I mean the amount in terms of cash paid and student loans, don't include the amount you got in the form of grants/scholarship that you didn't have to pay back. Basically, I'm interested in your debt per year

When I went to the University of Applied Sciences in Wiesbaden (Germany) I think I remember to have paid around $150 (equivalent) as a semester fee...

I think it was last year that all German states abolished any kind of semester fees... remember... it was even then only a few bucks for the entire semester.

For those who don't know anything about Germany, besides cars and the stereotypical punctuality..., Germany has a pretty good educational system... or... at least had a good one during my times!

I read just recently that Americans being advised to send their kids to German universities to get the best bang for their bucks...

I've paid for the college education of my 2nd ex-wife, which was just under $40,000 at Hunter College with a double major. She graduated from the Honors College and is debt free, because... well... I paid for it... screw her! 

SAND DIAL wrote:
/ Does that have something to do with NAFTA?

I don't believe it so.  Before 911, before the economic meltdown.  United States are the place to be in education and opportunity.  Frankly in many cases, we still are the best in research in the technology.  For those foreign grad students after they finished their training in the states.  They usually find a way to stay in the U.S. which is very good deal for the United sates because they are very productive citizens, while their native country suffers what we called as "brain drain".

After 911 and after the economic break down, China, India, Taiwan, Korea and many third world countries raised, the very best U.S trained students are heading back to their native country.  It creates a vacuum at the top.  In the last 15 years, most for my key scientists were from Canada, UK, China and India. They were all making $150K to 200k a year.   But I could not find any American born scientists to fill these position.  What can you do ? 

The American family structure is no longer there,  Parents do not take responsibly for their children.  Everyone blames someone else, but themselves.  Thanks Gods there are immigrants.  They keep America strong and they bring new hope and vitality into this country.  If you don't believe me just go to different neighborhoods in NYC, from Chinatown, 74thStreet Jackson Height, Astoria, to Brighton Beach.  There is no sign of slowing down in their micro economy.    If United States falls behind its immigration, we screw.

martin b wrote:
I'm also curious why so few Americans have graduate degrees.  Anyone can explain?  American grad schools are 70% Asian. Our president of the Philippines is American educated for example.

I do not have a graduate degree, because I refuse to go thousands and thousands of dollars into debt for something I can't guarantee will make my life any better.

I am almost 33 years old, with zero debt. I plan on keeping it that way.

martin b wrote:
I'm also curious why so few Americans have graduate degrees.  Anyone can explain?  American grad schools are 70% Asian. Our president of the Philippines is American educated for example.

It may be due to the fact that grad school can be amazingly expensive. My brother has his doctorate in education. After he got his B.A, he started working full time as a teacher. He was married with children while he attended grad school at night. It was very hard, expensive and time consuming. I was lucky. I was able to work part time, earn a full scholarship and complete my Masters in a short period of time.

Also, many people do not believe there is value in an advanced degree. I believe the value has much more to do with personal enrichment than what it can do for a paycheck. I also know I am lucky to be able to think like that.

Becks wrote:
And I mean the amount in terms of cash paid and student loans, don't include the amount you got in the form of grants/scholarship that you didn't have to pay back. Basically, I'm interested in your debt per year .

40 years ago. I don't remember.

Debt was zero. I paid my tuition for my B.A. every year in full. Worked my butt off to do so.

My Masters was paid for by the US Army.

Tim Little Photography wrote:
It may be due to the fact that grad school can be amazingly expensive. My brother has his doctorate in education. After he got his B.A, he started working full time as a teacher. He was married with children while he attended grad school at night. It was very hard, expensive and time consuming. I was lucky. I was able to work part time, earn a full scholarship and complete my Masters in a short period of time.

Also, many people do not believe there is value in an advanced degree. I believe the value has much more to do with personal enrichment than what it can do for a paycheck. I also know I am lucky to be able to think like that.

When you calculate the net value of education and compared to a cup Starbucks coffee or a bottle beer, education is a bargain.  On the book, education is expensive.  But there are many ways to fund the education without spending a penny.  None of my colleagues and friends (over a thousand of them) and including me were NOT required to pay our post grad education.  For our undergrad education, some had to pay.  In grad school, we don't even need to pay pencil, notebooks or photocopying.  It all paid by the Department. 

It is all dependent on what discipline you choose and what university you are talking about.  You don't go to Wilmington University or University of Phoenix to get your doctorate degree, who the hell will hire you after you get the piece of paper.  You go for a discipline that is bright, promising and you have a passion for it.  You choose the best school and most prolific professor to work under.  He or she will have plenty of grant money to support your education.  You will never need to find job, job will find you.  Needless to say, you must be committed and willing to work hard and smart. 

I studied under the world renounced professor.  He grants supported me for 5 years, he gave me two full time technicians to work for me for my thesis.  I used this opportunity to learn the science, sharpen my critical thinking skills, and learn to manage others. 

In this countries, we still have the best research institute/universities in the world.  But most people who have been here for generations have lost sight what they have.  They set up some many obstacles and invent many excuses for themselves they will never go anywhere in life.    I blame this for poor parenting and dysfunctional family.