Hero Foto wrote:
Any differences have you experienced that really stand out?

Yes... European models at the same age conducting themselves more mature and responsible than their American counterparts.

For many European models, US English is their second language (Kings English really!). For some American models, US grammar can be a second language...

Most of the European models speak with an accent... most American models speak in a dialect.

Some American models may think that European models who speak broken English are not very smart.

European models are confused by the imperial system, American models are not...

European models might find some customs curious... American models may think that the European models are curious...

Did I miss something?   

Hero Foto wrote:
Any differences have you experienced that really stand out?

Yes, European models make themselves available for shoots by actually showing up. Most of the time they arrive ahead of time, as well.

martin b wrote:
European models seem more mature at a younger age.  Not sure why.  It's always been like that since the 80s when I first started shooting.  They also seem much more open about nudity.

It's an ongoing situation and point of discussion, martin!

The major difference is that in most European countries, when you grow up, there are much more expectations as well as responsibilities from a much earlier age. E.g. in many of those countries... when you turn 16, you kinda start to prepare for a job, career, making a living or, depending on your grades, to go on to become a university student (academia... trade schools etc, are not considered college)... by the age of 19, you are still young, but you are an adult and it is expected of you to act like an adult. That expectation, as part of societies, tend to have young people being more serious about life.

Oh, you can buy beer and wine at age 15, hard liquor was 16 or 17. I remember that people of my class hung out on Friday eve with our head-teacher at a pub... we were around 15... I used to prefer Guinness draft at that time...   You can join the military at age 17 (which I almost did) and are fully adult after the law at age 18.

The US culture in turn, tries to keep their young people in a state of Utopian youth (never works) and trying to keep responsibility from them as long as possible. That's why you see 24 year old college "kids" behave like "kids" at Spring Break.

Maybe the US way of keeping adults in some sort of an imaginary bubble of suspended childhood has its advantages... whatever it is... it does explain why there seems to be a difference in maturity and behavior.

JQuest wrote:
I wonder if European photographers say the same things about European models at home and America Models travelling through Europe.

Travelling models would, presumably, have more commitment because they've taken the step of actually doing the travelling.  That would surely apply to European models travelling in North America and to American models travelling in Europe.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
American Models, the non nude type, go in the bathroom to change clothes, sometimes you even hear the door lock click.

European models don't bother, they just change in front of you, usually carrying on a conversation.

That's one thing I never figured out.

Both American and European models have changed in front of me.   

Kent Art Photography wrote:
Travelling models would, presumably, have more commitment because they've taken the step of actually doing the travelling.  That would surely apply to European models travelling in North America and to American models travelling in Europe.

I guess that hits the nail on the head.
It is less where they are from - but the level of commitment.
Crossing the pond to do some work sure shows a lot of commitment and planning.

doc (with experience from both sides of the pond)

Natural Light on Location wrote:
American Models, the non nude type, go in the bathroom to change clothes, sometimes you even hear the door lock click.

European models don't bother, they just change in front of you, usually carrying on a conversation.

That's one thing I never figured out.

In a lot of European countries nudity is not "dirty" per definition, just "not dressed" - people may generally be more relaxed about it (exceptions apply, as always). Nudity is also less sexualized.

Just my two cents (Euro or USD - you choose!)

Bare Essential Photos wrote:
Yes, European models make themselves available for shoots by actually showing up. Most of the time they arrive ahead of time, as well.

My favorite European model I shot often always arrived 7 minutes early, no matter the schedule, location, or weather conditions, always 7 minutes before the agreed time, month after month. The most charismatic female I have ever met.

More to the point, my opinion is that many European models have greater comfort in their own body, often more able to move in a graceful, fluid and feminine manner than US models.

Mine have had an education with far greater exposure to the arts, and have enthusiasm for participation in the visual art world.

Natural Light on Location wrote:
American Models, the non nude type, go in the bathroom to change clothes, sometimes you even hear the door lock click.

European models don't bother, they just change in front of you, usually carrying on a conversation.

docD wrote:
In a lot of European countries nudity is not "dirty" per definition, just "not dressed" - people may generally be more relaxed about it (exceptions apply, as always). Nudity is also less sexualized.

This is pretty much the key... nudity in America is extremely sexualized and in some ways a taboo. That's why a nipple is considered pornography with quite a few people in the US.

It's pretty deeply rooted. However, I found a few models in NYC who were born and raised here (mostly NYC) who also changed clothes nude in front of me and the team, but that seems to be rather rare. The more pro-model, the less of a problem it is...

udor wrote:

Do you know any European photographers who have this kind of Fetish for American models ?

udor wrote:

Natural Light on Location wrote:
American Models, the non nude type, go in the bathroom to change clothes, sometimes you even hear the door lock click.

European models don't bother, they just change in front of you, usually carrying on a conversation.

This is pretty much the key... nudity in America is extremely sexualized and in some ways a taboo. That's why a nipple is considered pornography with quite a few people in the US.

It's pretty deeply rooted. However, I found a few models in NYC who were born and raised here (mostly NYC) who also changed clothes nude in front of me and the team, but that seems to be rather rare. The more pro-model, the less of a problem it is...

Oh it is not just that, I agree with Udor. But the thread was about the difference between US versus European models, and that is the biggest difference I have noticed.

Again, agreeing with Udor, the more Pro the Model, the more casual the attitude.

I once photographed a Pro Model in Dallas in a waterfall in a public park. (good luck guessing where).

She would ruin a shot on the hint of a nip slip.

Then she would change right there. I turned around the first few times, but she would talk to me, ask me a question, I would turn around and there she was naked!

Finally, I said, "You ruin my shots because you are scared something will show, but then you change in front of me?"

She said, "you can see me naked, just don't take any pictures."

That has been my experience with European models.

Either they don't take nudes, or they want to get paid for them.

Seeing them nude is no big deal.

That's my take on it.

udor wrote:

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Do you know any European photographers who have this kind of Fetish for American models ?

Am I supposed to fill in the kind of fetish you are inquiring about??? Because I am not clear what you are talking referring to!

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Do you know any European photographers who have this kind of Fetish for American models ?

This is not a fetish!  I have worked with several European models and like working with them.

DEP E510 wrote:
The average European model is equal to the average American professional, travelling model.

Interesting.

Have you experienced this while shooting in Europe or on US soil?

Do these models have the same expectations regarding compensation ($$$)?

Kent Art Photography wrote:

Travelling models would, presumably, have more commitment because they've taken the step of actually doing the travelling.  That would surely apply to European models travelling in North America and to American models travelling in Europe.

+1

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Interesting topic.   I'm African American and in a recent discussion with another Black shooter on MM we noted that European models seemed more at ease with us.   In particular I worked with several Russian and Ukrainian models in 2015.
All were very sweet and friendly and didn't show any fear or concerns.   In contrast some of the White American models appeared to be a bit scared when we met but after a few minutes warmed up.   The European models were also more at ease with nudity.   The European models overall were more reliable and when I talked about flakes and last minute cancellations seemed surprised that any model would do that.

Sounds like overall European models are a bit more cosmopolitan.

Although as I said there is a bit of selection bias there as well, since you are only working with the European models who are dedicated, hardworking, and clever enough to presumably support themselves abroad through modeling. So basically by the mere fact you're working with traveling models you are already working within a different class of model. Unless you've worked much with European models in Europe in which case I'm mistaken

Mortonovich wrote:
Well, Eastern European is just a totally different, and fantastic, look.  *swoon*

Heh heh! I recently realized every boy I had a crush on since elementary school has been Eastern European. As is my current fiance.
I guess I have a type! Totally unintentional.

CamelliaFlower wrote:

Sounds like overall European models are a bit more cosmopolitan.

Although as I said there is a bit of selection bias there as well, since you are only working with the European models who are dedicated, hardworking, and clever enough to presumably support themselves abroad through modeling. So basically by the mere fact you're working with traveling models you are already working within a different class of model. Unless you've worked much with European models in Europe in which case I'm mistaken

I live in Chicago and a recent news report indicated it was the third most segregated city in America.   European models don't seem to have the same racial views.   At least those I've met.   All but two lived in America so these were women who have migrated here and didn't work full time as models.   In general I found them friendlier then American women.   I've traveled to Spain, Paris and Rome and noted no racism.  To be fair I was only there a month in total and living in a place is very different then being a tourist.   I worked with a Columbian model and two Ethiopian models and I saw a difference in them as well.   All were  very sweet.   I also admit that models in Texas were very cool.   Most were Mexican Americans.   

People who migrate to America tend to be very driven and hard working.   So I would agree with you.   PS:   I've read some of your responses in posts.   You are a sharp young woman.   Very well spoken.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
Also, for American photographers comparing European models vs. America models, there is a bit of a bias in terms of the pool of available models for comparison...as any European models whom you meet outside of their native country are obviously serious about pursuing modeling as a career, whereas if you are meeting American models inside their native country, you are more likely to encounter ones who are just doing it for fun and not as serious about it. It takes a bigger commitment to travel outside one's native country in pursuit of a career, so in general it's not a stretch to say that a model who travels abroad looking for work can be said to be quite dedicated to modeling! (Although that's not to say at all that models who stay within their home country are less dedicated).

I hadn't considered this, makes sense!

It also sheds light on why American travelling models are often more dedicated than non-travelling American models.

udor wrote:
The major difference is that in most European countries, when you grow up, there are much more expectations as well as responsibilities from a much earlier age. E.g. in many of those countries... when you turn 16, you kinda start to prepare for a job, career, making a living or, depending on your grades, to go on to become a university student (academia... trade schools etc, are not considered college)... by the age of 19, you are still young, but you are an adult and it is expected of you to act like an adult. That expectation, as part of societies, tend to have young people being more serious about life.

Oh, you can buy beer and wine at age 15, hard liquor was 16 or 17. I remember that people of my class hung out on Friday eve with our head-teacher at a pub... we were around 15... I used to prefer Guinness draft at that time...   You can join the military at age 17 (which I almost did) and are fully adult after the law at age 18.

The US culture in turn, tries to keep their young people in a state of Utopian youth (never works) and trying to keep responsibility from them as long as possible. That's why you see 24 year old college "kids" behave like "kids" at Spring Break.

Maybe the US way of keeping adults in some sort of an imaginary bubble of suspended childhood has its advantages... whatever it is... it does explain why there seems to be a difference in maturity and behavior.

I was born and raised in the US. I taught teenagers in Europe and lived there for several years. I was married to a European woman for 19 years and raised two kids with her.  I agree with much of what you stated here. The one thing that argues strongly against a blanket statement about superior European maturity is hooliganism. I guess we could call it the exception that proves the rule, but that seems specious. And please don't argue we have anything close to that level of immature, violent, mindless, herd-mentality action. Certainly Raiders fans are a little out of control occasionally but nothing anywhere near the riotous levels seen in Europe.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I live in Chicago and a recent news report indicated it was the third most segregated city in America.   European models don't seem to have the same racial views.   At least those I've met.   All but two lived in America so these were women who have migrated here and didn't work full time as models.   In general I found them friendlier then American women.   I've traveled to Spain, Paris and Rome and noted no racism.  To be fair I was only there a month in total and living in a place is very different then being a tourist.   I worked with a Columbian model and two Ethiopian models and I saw a difference in them as well.   All were  very sweet.   I also admit that models in Texas were very cool.   Most were Mexican Americans.   

People who migrate to America tend to be very driven and hard working.   So I would agree with you.   PS:   I've read some of your responses in posts.   You are a sharp young woman.   Very well spoken.

Cultural differences like this are always interesting to me because I mostly grew up in America. My parents are immigrants so they raised me with values closer to their culture but I still I have a lot of the mentality of an American...but I still can see and evaluate things from my parent's perspective too. Also, I'm often still treated like an outsider.

And then I went off to design school and my thinking got even more convoluted.

Thanks for your generous compliment! Flattery of this type is the kind I'm most susceptible to...hahaha.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I have never worked with a european model so I dont know their personalities...I doubt many of us got into this concerned with model personalities.....I just think european models look so skinny, they dont look like a woman to me. they look spindly.
american women have curves and they look healthy and sexy and bodacious. thier legs look way hotter also. this is just my opinion...I know some will want to talk about personalities which is pretty useless in an industry that is driven mostly on what the model looks like...not that she can speak 2 languages.

I notice the weight difference quite a bit.  I remember casting for Harley Davidson calendar.  Most of the American girls that showed up were just too heavy for our kind of shoot.  Maybe 70%.   It was an open call but I was still shocked.  I had 200 girls and 60 guys.  Most of the guys were great but the girls was pretty easy to cut out girls just by weight.  I've done castings in Paris and London and never had so many models overweight.  There are some that are size 0 as well in Europe.  I don't usually see that at an American casting.  I also see that in Asian casting.  My gf now is size 0/2.  It isn't unusual.  Something I also notice is that European women seem to have older bf.  I am 49 and my gf is 24.  I see that age gap quite a bit in European models.  I think American women tend to date guys their own age.  It might contribute to the maturity level of the women.

martin b wrote:
Most of the American girls that showed up were just too heavy for our kind of shoot.  Maybe 70%.   It was an open call but I was still shocked.  I had 200 girls and 60 guys.  Most of the guys were great but the girls was pretty easy to cut out girls just by weight.

Hahaaaa, then you know how we feel.  Fear not, liquify to rescue.  LOL

martin b wrote:
Most of the American girls that showed up were just too heavy for our kind of shoot.  Maybe 70%.   It was an open call but I was still shocked.  I had 200 girls and 60 guys.  Most of the guys were great but the girls was pretty easy to cut out girls just by weight.  I've done castings in Paris and London and never had so many models overweight.  There are some that are size 0 as well in Europe.  I don't usually see that at an American casting.  I also see that in Asian casting.  My gf now is size 0/2.

This is only vaguely related but you reminded me of this article I read some years back that really annoyed me...it was talking about "the shocking disparity between models and normal women" and "Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8 percent less than the average woman. Today she weighs 23 percent less".

I mean to make this a fair comparison we should really be looking at how much MORE the "average woman" weighs today compared to 20 years ago, no? *throws up hands*

Of course there was no mention of this in the article though!

The bald truth is that the "normal/average woman" in America is fat. Statistically.

And that's fine if the person is okay with that. But it's ridiculous to make it seem like skinny people who would have been considered normal-sized 20 years ago are now grotesquely thin just because the average person is now much heavier than they were 20 years ago.

udor wrote:
Maybe the US way of keeping adults in some sort of an imaginary bubble of suspended childhood has its advantages... whatever it is... it does explain why there seems to be a difference in maturity and behavior.

There are many difference between two continents.
When you buy a 911 Porsche in Europe, there is no break-in instruction in the owner's manual.  When you buy a 911 in the States,  the break in is needed.  Some car but different preceded notion of the owners.