Alyssa June Retouch wrote:
This has happened to me more than once-

I'm emailing with a potential client, they send me examples of the work they need done. I respond with my base price and the emailing stops there.
Why??!??

It's obvious it's because they don't like the price. I take my time to communicate with them and look at their images.
If it's too high, why can't they just respond and tell me that. The feedback would be nice, it only takes a minute.

It just seems rude to me and I don't understand!

We are a selfish, rude society, and it is becoming more self-centered all the time.

DougBPhoto wrote:

We are a selfish, rude society, and it is becoming more self-centered all the time.

I think all the unsolicited e-mails I get from retouchers are rude.

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:
It just seems rude to me and I don't understand!

read the threads about the spam from retouchers. the competition from newbies, 3rd world countries make the market very competitive and unfair. $20 is a month's wage in some countries.

targeted approach with the right clients is the key.

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:
Why??!??  It's obvious it's because they don't like the price. I take my time to communicate with them and look at their images.
If it's too high, why can't they just respond and tell me that. The feedback would be nice, it only takes a minute.

It just seems rude to me and I don't understand!

DougBPhoto wrote:
We are a selfish, rude society, and it is becoming more self-centered all the time.

Sorry -- I don't think it's rude at all.  It's business.

The OP already assumes that his prices are too high.  What more does he need to know?  And it's kinda inappropriate to expect people to explain to you why they are rejecting you.  For them to explain it to you -- that's unsolicited advice.  Do you tell the Italian restaurant why you decided to go to the Chinese restaurant next door?  Do you tell the chick flick studio why you went to the action movie instead?

You want feedback -- know your competition.  Set your rates based on your marketplace.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I think all the unsolicited e-mails I get from retouchers are rude.

+1

I even have a message at the very top of my profile stating that I don't use retouchers, yet I continue to get unsolicited offers from retouchers. 

Gary Melton wrote:

+1

I even have a message at the very top of my profile stating that I don't use retouchers, yet I continue to get unsolicited offers from retouchers. 

It was not unsolicited.
 
It only takes a minute for someone to say "thanks but no thanks"    Im not looking for a reason just a response would be nice.

And I'ts pretty obvious its the price because the communication was strong prior to that

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:
This has happened to me more than once-

I'm emailing with a potential client, they send me examples of the work they need done. I respond with my base price and the emailing stops there.
Why??!??

It's obvious it's because they don't like the price. I take my time to communicate with them and look at their images.
If it's too high, why can't they just respond and tell me that. The feedback would be nice, it only takes a minute.

It just seems rude to me and I don't understand!

Depends on who the clients are. Many big companies do not hackle with prices. If they are not interested in the rate, they will just move on.

As far as you taking the time to communicate with and have no result..., that's just the price of doing business. It happens all the time in business world everyday.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Frankly I consider telling someone their price is unacceptable extremely rude
Also some people are non confrontational and will avoid chance of an ugly reply to such a comment.

Good one.

and again, I don't even need a why. Just a response would be nice.

I appreciate all the feed back, like I said just needed to vent and it's always nice to hear what others have to say!

Gary Melton wrote:

+1

I even have a message at the very top of my profile stating that I don't use retouchers, yet I continue to get unsolicited offers from retouchers. 

I get friend requests.

Gary Melton wrote:
+1

I even have a message at the very top of my profile stating that I don't use retouchers, yet I continue to get unsolicited offers from retouchers. 

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I get friend requests.

I get those too...

DougBPhoto wrote:
We are a selfish, rude society, and it is becoming more self-centered all the time.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I think all the unsolicited e-mails I get from retouchers are rude.

We are on a networking site, unsolicited e-mail is what this site exists for, in fact, some might even consider that simply being on this site makes incoming messages from other site users not unsolicited, as simply being on this site is soliciting others to contact you.

Anyway, I was not speaking exclusively to what the OP was describing, rather our society on a whole, trends, and generalized behaviors.

Growing up, I remember a world where your handshake meant something and people did what they said they were going to do, but those days are long gone.  Now, everyone is out exclusively for themselves, and it is common-place to treat others like shit.

We used to have a "golden rule" where you would treat others like you would want to be treated, but now, the "golden rule" is that you try to get as much gold as you can and that there are no rules.

Disagree if you wish, but being on a site for photographic professionals to reach other photographic professionals is the point of being here, and complaining about people contacting you on a networking site sounds kinda selfish and self-centered... which, oddly, seems vaguely similar to what I said.

That is not to say that the OP's feelings are not selfish as well, because, I would not expect anything less, that is just the normal for people today.

Fuck, even with a name like Alyssa, it is too much effort to figure out whether to use her vs him, or she vs he, other people bitch about foreigners... take a step back and look objectively, and the whole thread thus far are examples of selfishness.

Folks better get used to it, because if you don't think it is selfish yet, just wait, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

The Invisible Touch wrote:
If I were you, I would lower the rates and see for future jobs if that gives you the go ahead.

I wouldn't advice for such approach. Even if the service is free there would still be people complaining and being impolite in communication.

Stick to your price and hit them with quality. If they can't afford it - it's their problem. Don't become a cheap slave. There are too many already.

anchev wrote:
I wouldn't advice for such approach. Even if the service is free there would still be people complaining and being impolite in communication.

The OP's questions wasn't about quality, so I based my comment on the question in hand.. of course if you up your quality you will get more chances to work with better clients... that's just common sense.

The Invisible Touch wrote:
yes you must be right but WHY with question marks gave me the clue.. :-)

As an experienced retoucher you should be able to see the whole picture, not just the isolated details

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I get friend requests.

Me too! I get really mad at retoucher's spam. Do they even LOOK at who they send stuff too?

I'm a freaking artist! What are they going to do for me, RE-paint my painting?

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:
This has happened to me more than once-

I'm emailing with a potential client, they send me examples of the work they need done. I respond with my base price and the emailing stops there.
Why??!??

It's obvious it's because they don't like the price. I take my time to communicate with them and look at their images.
If it's too high, why can't they just respond and tell me that. The feedback would be nice, it only takes a minute.

It just seems rude to me and I don't understand!

Your point is taken. and here's an opinion.
it's too much at this point to understand emailing as a face-to-face conversation -
so what is normally courteous in conversation can't be expected in writing emails back in forth.  As mentioned - that's an opinion.

You might try this out, to help you deal with the frustration:
end your business-related emails with 'please do not reply if you are not interested (trying to cut down on emails ) '

so no reply, as per your request should not be a source of frustration, PLUS - it makes you look like you are busy and don't want to spend time reading mail that just says 'no thanks'.

Finally - I have to agree that no one owes you feedback - but if you MUST have feedback, then at least request it in your replies, and if your respondents can't be bothered then it's on them - but - keep in mind, maybe they are as busy as you are trying to become ... : )

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I get friend requests.

MainePaintah wrote:
Me too! I get really mad at retoucher's spam. Do they even LOOK at who they send stuff too?

I'm a freaking artist! What are they going to do for me, RE-paint my painting?

I can tell you the vast majority of them don't.

Or they just can't read.

Many said "nice work', but they didn't even take one look of my images (other than the thumbnails, possibly).

anchev wrote:
I get a lot of weird requests from photographers who want to shoot me (thinking I am a female and a model).

The other day one sent this:

"Hello, I'd really like to work with you if you could refrain from shaving or trimming the pubic area.
In Paris now models with bald pubes have gone out of fashion. Let me know if this is a problem for you."

I guess photographers read just as much as anyone else.

Very funny!! 

mophotoart wrote:
for the OP...understand the vent...but other factors to consider....contact is one thing....we take it or leave it if no contact back...your port shows talent and you have more views now...but....lets say someone does a wedding, 200 shots from 500 taken, (2 photographers} they have many hours invested in this and it works for them, they have no interest in a third party charging them hmmmm 5 dollars a photo to retouch{just the average retouchers I see ask) what they already do that keeps them getting paid...not a reflection on your work....just isn't in their business plan...I think you should start shooting and expand your talent into the front end of the art

I am a photographer too. And as any other professional photographer I know that the post processing is the most time consuming part and usually the most expensive one, at least if one cares about quality.

So retouchers should be treated more respectfully as they are the people who take the time and eye strain to make the final product sell-able. And of course I am not talking about the ones who would gladly blur any photo for $5 and give a bulk discount for this "high end" work.

mophotoart wrote:
for the OP...understand the vent...but other factors to consider....contact is one thing....we take it or leave it if no contact back...your port shows talent and you have more views now...but....lets say someone does a wedding, 200 shots from 500 taken, (2 photographers} they have many hours invested in this and it works for them, they have no interest in a third party charging them hmmmm 5 dollars a photo to retouch{just the average retouchers I see ask) what they already do that keeps them getting paid...not a reflection on your work....just isn't in their business plan...I think you should start shooting and expand your talent into the front end of the art

Editing wedding photos is not something I do. I have, but I don't focus on that kind of work.
In those cases you can't charge $5+ for each image, it's mostly lightroom work they look for anyway. (in my experience)
It's quick and mostly the same or similar editing for each image.
I would NEVER expect that kind of retouching to go for much at all per image.

I did practice photography for many years, never got anywhere with it because I never seriously perused it and then I fell into retouching and here I am.

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:

It was not unsolicited.
 
It only takes a minute for someone to say "thanks but no thanks"    Im not looking for a reason just a response would be nice.

And I'ts pretty obvious its the price because the communication was strong prior to that

Instead of playing your hand first by posting your fee, ask the client what budget they are working with and then offer what you can do for them based on that information. Now, instead of forcing them into either/or, you have opened negotiations.

Shadow Dancer wrote:

Instead of playing your hand first by posting your fee, ask the client what budget they are working with and then offer what you can do for them based on that information. Now, instead of forcing them into either/or, you have opened negotiations.

I've thought of this, and I have done it in the past. I feel like it comes off as unprofessional... or "something" I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Alyssa June Retouch wrote:

I've thought of this, and I have done it in the past. I feel like it comes off as unprofessional... or "something" I'm not sure how I feel about it.

It is a reality based selling technique. If this client has $300 to spend and you are quoting $600, you are gone.
If they have $300 to spend and you know this, you can offer a $300 service for them. Be specific, let them know what they will get for their budget. If that is going to leave important work undone, let them know that they can get those things done if needed and give them the additional cost for the extra work.

Now you have engaged them in a proposition and have a chance of getting paid for your time. You are not selling yourself cheap since you will be doing less work and getting paid fairly for your time. You are also building a relationship that could lead to more work in the future. Once they know the cost of getting everything they want done will be higher, they can negotiate for that within their corporate structure and future jobs may be more lucrative.

You had a fish nibble the bait and tried to set the hook without giving them a chance to swallow it first.

Shadow Dancer wrote:

It is a reality based selling technique. If this client has $300 to spend and you are quoting $600, you are gone.
If they have $300 to spend and you know this, you can offer a $300 service for them. Be specific, let them know what they will get for their budget. If that is going to leave important work undone, let them know that they can get those things done if needed and give them the additional cost for the extra work.

Now you have engaged them in a proposition and have a chance of getting paid for your time. You are not selling yourself cheap since you will be doing less work and getting paid fairly for your time. You are also building a relationship that could lead to more work in the future. Once they know the cost of getting everything they want done will be higher, they can negotiate for that within their corporate structure and future jobs may be more lucrative.

You had a fish nibble the bait and tried to set the hook without giving them a chance to swallow it first.

Maybe I'll try it next time someone has a very large amount of photos, like the one I was referring to in my rant.

Shadow Dancer wrote:
If this client has $300 to spend and you are quoting $600, you are gone.

Wrong. If the client has no money - the client is gone. I stay.
I would be gone if I start working cheaper just because the client "has no budget".

I have said that a few times already: publish your prices, be fair and clear with people and you won't have to deal with negotiating and all the other time wasting "techniques".

anchev wrote:

Wrong. If the client has no money - the client is gone. I stay.
I would be gone if I start working cheaper just because the client "has no budget".

I have said that a few times already: publish your prices, be fair and clear with people and you won't have to deal with negotiating and all the other time wasting "techniques".

$300 is a random figure I chose to make a point. How do you know if the client has no money if you don't ask? It could have been $300,000, the point is the same.

She just lost a client who had a large number of images to retouch. Re-read my post, I did not suggest she lower her price. I suggested she offer to complete an amount of work based on what is available in the client's budget.

Retouching is very competitive. Getting your foot in the door and establishing relationships is an edge over the all or nothing approach. If you don't need it, lucky you.

Playing all or nothing is fine if you are already too busy to keep up. Otherwise, it usually leads to - nothing.


Are all of your clients one time only or do you get repeat business?