Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4615
Los Angeles, California, US
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc). I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...  - And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping... Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites?
Photographer
Frozen Moments
Posts: 1680
San Antonio, Texas, US
Absolutely!! Three years ago people used to stumble in to my port a lot. Comments high water mark for me back then was in the 30's, now days it is more like 10 to 15 on average. Participation on this site seems to be down on every aspect of this site.
This is the only site I use for displaying images. So far I refuse to use facebook.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? Yes it is true. People just don't care or want to participate much. I have gone from 100 comments a day to less then 30
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 13562
Washington, Utah, US
I certainly get far, far fewer comments, lists and views than I used to. That doesn't really bother me. I'm not here to seek validation by comments on my work, so I don't care to find another site, just to get more exposure. What bothers me, is that MM is dying. The lower views go hand in hand with it getting harder and harder to find models who want to shoot here. Finding someplace photos get more views, doesn't necessarily mean more shoots.
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 2843
Detroit, Michigan, US
I'm not on any of the other websites you mentioned, preferring to stick with Model Mayhem, although some of the photographers and artists I have worked with have put up our work together on other art and photo websites. I don't think any of them use the ones you mentioned though. Those photographers and artists that I worked with who I have talked to about it feel none of those sites are appropriate for people wanting to present a professional attitude to prospective clients and having a presence on any of them would hurt their opportunities for finding models to work with rather than help them.
I am still quite pleased (and sometimes amazed) by the amount of interaction I get on Model Mayhem but it may be because I am somewhat unique since there aren't very many 64 year old models here, and even fewer who specialize in nude work. I have many photos with dozens of comments, and some with many hundreds of comments. Lots of them have significant numbers of lists in addition to views and comments. I get several PM's every day as well, and when I put up new photos they get views and sometimes comments within the first few days.
I do see overall participation on MM as lower than it used to be, it's really obvious here in the forums, and I notice that new people who recently joined typically don't get many page views or photo comments unless they are savvy enough to become active in the forums. Since it's only been a little over 4 years since I started on MM, I don't have any comparison to how many page views or comments models were getting before that point in time.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
IDiivil wrote:
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? I am a newbie on IG... pretty much exactly 1 year since my first post... and the interaction I get on IG is by far the greatest. I am usually getting around 100 likes and 2 to 4 comments within 24 to 36 hours after a post on IG and I have only 1200 followers.
Here's my breakdown of the activity on different platforms for that same time frame for one photo:
When I post on IG, I share it automatically on the other connected platform, hence I get a good timeline comparison.
Instagram: 90
Facebook: 11 (despite that fact that I have more than twice the amount of contacts on FB than on IG)
Twitter: 3
Tumbler: 0.3 (a like every three or five days)
Model Mayhem:... Gets only a honorary mention as I get only 3 or 4 comments per year... but I also don't update... or care...
Model
Lisa Everhart
Posts: 924
Sebring, Florida, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? Facebook by far, though I am not active on IG because I don't see as much interaction between people there. I generate an average of 200 or so likes per post and can always engage in conversation in the comment section if I have the time.
90% of my bookings originate on FB in one way or another
I think MM is great for closing the deal and filing communications because your stats, rates, terms etc. are easy to see and understand and there is some feedback from previous jobs that a new customer can see.
For me, 500px is a great place to display my work for easy viewing because the quality is excellent and there are no restrictions on nudes.
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
All Activity on MM is on a downward spiral
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 23771
Orlando, Florida, US
I jest figured nobody liked me no mo, since I'm old and smell bad . . .  SOS
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
Frozen Moments wrote:
Absolutely!! Three years ago people used to stumble in to my port a lot. Comments high water mark for me back then was in the 30's, now days it is more like 10 to 15 on average. Participation on this site seems to be down on every aspect of this site.
This is the only site I use for displaying images. So far I refuse to use facebook. Ditto.
I'm not at all sure that it's because of anything MM/IB are doing. The changes we're seeing not only in interaction but in new members (including the ratio of new photographers vs.new models) seems to me at any rate to stem at least partially from the shutting down of ANTM (America's Next Top Model) and the loss thereby of of the constant reinforcement of the idea that any reasonably pretty young woman stood a chance of walking the runways of the world's most glamorous cities. It's a hard notion to resist and we photographers did well from it for twelve years.
According to Variety, (http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/america … 201712989/) the show will be returning, possibly this season. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, changes in the use of MM and similar sites.
All IMHO as always, of course.
Photographer
DespayreFX
Posts: 1481
Delta, British Columbia, Canada
sospix wrote:
I jest figured nobody liked me no mo, since I'm old and smell bad . . .
SOS Nobody's ruling that out just yet either...
Photographer
Managing Light
Posts: 2678
Salem, Virginia, US
sospix wrote:
I jest figured nobody liked me no mo, since I'm old and smell bad . . .
SOS But your work is pretty good so we put up wit' ya.
I notice the decreased traffic too. And the interaction in the forums is really anemic.
This must be driving IB nuts, but how do you reverse the trends??
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 23771
Orlando, Florida, US
DespayreFX wrote:
Nobody's ruling that out just yet either... See, I knew it . . . shoulda never installed "smellavision" when I got my new Mac with the iChat thingy . . . nutz . . .
SOS
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 23771
Orlando, Florida, US
Managing Light wrote:
But your work is pretty good so we put up wit' ya.
I notice the decreased traffic too. And the interaction in the forums is really anemic.
This must be driving IB nuts, but how do you reverse the trends?? I guess so long as no one actually has ta see me (or, smell me) I kin squeak by . . . I've been on here awhile, always enjoyed being able to interact easily with models and other photographers, but, the traffic does seem to lull every once in awhile . . . hopefully it's just a cyclical thing, and I won't havta find a new place to bother others with my inane drivel . . .
SOS
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? I've noticed the same thing.
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4861
Asheville, North Carolina, US
A fraction of what it was. Fetlife, 500px, FB groups,, nothing has really replaced what this was.
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
I used to use Facebook a lot but recently switched to Instagram where there is a lot more interaction.
Places like model mayhem are no longer of any use to me. I might only contact one model a year here, It's just so much easier on Facebook to find models.
Photographer
Fleming Design
Posts: 1380
East Hartford, Connecticut, US
Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
A fraction of what it was. Fetlife, 500px, FB groups,, nothing has really replaced what this was. To your point... About nine years ago, I contacted a friend who was on OMP and suggested he join MM. I sent him a link to the Critique forum showing him that there were 90 active threads that day just in Critique. He became a valued member here until he died two years ago. There are now between 5-8 active threads in critique per day.
Photographer
4 R D
Posts: 1141
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico
All activity has clearly gone down for a while now but at least in my experience new members keep signing up at the same rate as it used to be in better days. Main issue I see here is that the site design and tools have grown obsolete and this has led to less engagement. This site needs a more attractive interface to display pictures, a good tag system and a legitimate mobile solution (read: app) in order to induce more engagement and activity.
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 2731
Los Angeles, California, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? For me, facebook has led to commercial opportunites. I haven't scored a gig on MM yet and here, when people hire, they, as a general rule, have a low budget.
In interesting potential clients, instagram has been a godsend. I can show people on my phone. I have mostly beauty shots on my instagram.
Facebook is becoming less connective--views of me have dropped and when I post it is hard to get a like on a photo. Not that it was ever easy, but it's clear value was its networking potential.
I am replacing my phone so people should be able to direct mail and that should lead to opportunities, judging by the way it is going.
A model put one of my photos up on Facebook and it got 3.3k likes but it didn't do anything for me.
It's really the networking aspect--the getting into events for free without being someone's photo bitch for free. Instagram is where I get the most engagement and from industry people.
MM's forum activity clearly has declined and a number of talents, some commercial photographers, have not been seen for ages. There have been missteps, by I.B. --the warning cry of "Be Safe!" is a real turnoff.
I am switching more to PPA, the Professional Photographers of America, because they deeply address copyright issues, and they have a feature-find a photographer, which may help some commercial photographers.
The place is still a good place for art nude models. But the thing that turns commercial photographers off is that the site allows designers to TF, which they use to make commercial work. But it is pointless telling MM mangement, they would rather code things like "Be Safe!'
Photographer
Dexellery Photo
Posts: 60
Redondo Beach, California, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? Definitely been a drop on MM. I just started using Instagram in the last two months or so and have a ton of more interaction there. Honestly, spending less time here in general other than to check messages occasionally when I get a notice.
Photographer
Managing Light
Posts: 2678
Salem, Virginia, US
Living and shooting in a small town which is not near a major metro area, I find MM to be almost indispensable for finding models - primarily because of the geographical sorting function that MM provides.
I don't use FB, Instagram etc. for that reason. Plus I've had pretty good luck in finding reliable models near to me via MM.
I'd love to find other channels, if only for the novelty, but so far MM is it. And I suspect that IB knows that...
Photographer
Beyond Boudoir Photo
Posts: 416
Portland, Oregon, US
This seems like a good thread to ask a question that's been on my mind...
I've been on MM for a while, but I don't understand why people are soliciting comments via shouts and forum posts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any real payoff for attracting more views and comments. Other than ego reinforcement, maybe.
Do search engines perhaps take note of profiles that have more comments?
And what's the deal with wanting more "friends" on MM? You don't get notified when a friend posts something, so you aren't creating a larger audience of followers by collecting more friends.
What am I missing here? I'm honestly curious.
Feel free to PM me if you prefer not to post in the forum.
Mike
Photographer
fsp
Posts: 3656
New York, New York, US
I think the overall attitude is why bother.
MM.. hello?...... your patient is dropping dead!
they aren't getting the message n so many people have left for other more popular sites.
sad!
but you can always find a friend if you shout enough.
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
Beyond Boudoir wrote:
This seems like a good thread to ask a question that's been on my mind...
I've been on MM for a while, but I don't understand why people are soliciting comments via shouts and forum posts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any real payoff for attracting more views and comments. Other than ego reinforcement, maybe.
Do search engines perhaps take note of profiles that have more comments?
And what's the deal with wanting more "friends" on MM? You don't get notified when a friend posts something, so you aren't creating a larger audience of followers by collecting more friends.
What am I missing here? I'm honestly curious.
Feel free to PM me if you prefer not to post in the forum.
Mike For the members it is, I think, more ego gratification than anything. In my experience and observation, it's the content and style of one's forum posts that sometimes leads another member to contact him with the goal of working together at some point, or conversely to want to avoid dealing with that person on any basis--if one's posts are respectful, helpful and supportive, other members are more likely to want to work together.
From MM/IB's point of view, forum posts and discussions lead to page views, one of the criteria that leads advertisers to put their advertising bucks down on the table of site A (more page views) rather than that of site B (less page views) The same applies to Friends, comments, shoutouts, PMs and replies, etc. The more traffic a site has, the more marketable its product is.
All IMHO as always, of course.
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4615
Los Angeles, California, US
Beyond Boudoir wrote:
This seems like a good thread to ask a question that's been on my mind...
I've been on MM for a while, but I don't understand why people are soliciting comments via shouts and forum posts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any real payoff for attracting more views and comments. Other than ego reinforcement, maybe.
Do search engines perhaps take note of profiles that have more comments?
And what's the deal with wanting more "friends" on MM? You don't get notified when a friend posts something, so you aren't creating a larger audience of followers by collecting more friends.
What am I missing here? I'm honestly curious.
Feel free to PM me if you prefer not to post in the forum.
Mike There are actually castings in my area where photographers say, "If you don't have X amount of views/comments on your photos here on MM, don't apply."
... so, in some ways, there are unfortunately real money motivators in getting high numbers on your profile. This is especially true for sites like Instagram, where I see legitimate casting agencies request their talent have X amount of minimum followers before applying for the job listing.
However, I'll note people caring about MM numbers are fairly rare. Most people aren't heavily influenced by MM friend counts, views, etc.
For me, I wondered about the interaction rates dropping because I honestly just like it now and then. It's nice to read the occasional comment, and it's cool to see what images garner notice vs others.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
I think on MM (besides the seriously declin(ed/ing) membership, one can point directly to when the front page changed as a big driving factor. With the old front-page which was simple and effective, people would go there regularly. When people posted on the front page that they had new work up, people would go look at it and comment/list. With the new front page, no one goes there any more. Now it's intended to drive new membership for IB, not be of any use to the existing membership.
"MM the new My Space"
P.S. actually some here will remember that when MM first started in 2005, they actually referred to it as (can't remember exact verbiage) The MySpace for Models in the heading of the site.
Photographer
Marc S Photography
Posts: 136
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Looking at the classic main page of MM versus the new one, I see that the classic one lists active forum discussion headings and allows a direct link to those whereas the new main page does not.
I would not be surprised that this difference alone has a negative impact on the number of visits to the forums as a whole.
Other differences are that the classic main page displays the latest casting calls and latest travel notices and the new main page does not.
The classic main page is a go to page to see the latest forum discussions, castings and travel notices, and in my mind that would also lead to more forum interaction, views of castings and views of travel notices.
What the new main page does more of is use up web space for showcasing VIP members.
Those differences may account partially for differences in viewing and interaction in forums, but I doubt that the main page is the only significant factor in any change in viewing or interaction rates.
Another factor, outside of web site control is that the average age of citizens in the U.S. is getting higher meaning that the size of the pool of younger talent (as a percentage of the whole U.S. population) is dropping steadily as the distribution of talent in modeling is not evenly distributed by age, but is heavily skewed towards younger citizens. If the main countries from which MM members originate from have an ever decreasing proportion of citizens under 30, then the overall potential talent pool of MM would be expected to shrink as well.
One potential way of counteracting a decline in the potential talent pool due to demographics by age is to also cater to markets that have a lower average citizen age than the average citizen age of the current countries supplying most of the current talent pool. This may or may not be possible for the owners of MM to do.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
Yes it is true. People just don't care or want to participate much. I have gone from 100 comments a day to less then 30 I agree but for different reasons.
If more Americans are getting their web content from their mobile devices (as reported by the NY Times 2 years ago) than they are through other means, then this site has been dreadfully poor in meeting that need.
Don't believe me? Try browsing this site on your tablet or phone.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
IDiivil wrote:
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? They all have their pros & cons obviously. But to answer your question...
Facebook, I get more engagement (my term not theirs) when I post on my personal profile versus my photo page. The day & time of day matters a bunch too. If I post a model ad on Craigslist, I always post this link to make it easier for people to respond.
Tumblr. Unless I post nudes, I get almost no response. Just the activity on other peoples' feeds are dramatically less. Aside from memes & fan pages, it makes me think people are either starting to or have already gone elsewhere.
Twitter can be fun but I don't remotely use it for picture posting.
MM's fine for formal networking. I've gotten to expect a lot less out of it.
deviantArt is the site I've been on the longest & get the most feedback. I have had to put a blurb in my uploaded descriptions to "respect the models" (do I really need to explain why) & since then I've not gotten a crude comment about them - which is different that creative feedback. The site is NOT remotely for everyone though. I kinda do my own thing & post & if people like & enjoy it all, so much the better.
Photographer
Wandering Eyebubble
Posts: 323
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
IDiivil wrote:
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? Since joining in 2009 I've only averaged around two comments a year, and perhaps a few dozen views. I have an online portfolio I coded but do not participate in any other social media except (rarely) cosplay.com. So, personally, I haven't really noticed any change in my MM visibility over the years. That being said, the site works reasonably well for me; it has its ups and downs but I seem to be able to shoot on a fairly consistent basis.
Photographer
John Silva Photography
Posts: 590
Fairfield, California, US
sospix wrote:
I jest figured nobody liked me no mo, since I'm old and smell bad . . . SOS If your head hurts, your feet stink and you don't love Jesus, I think your just a normal part animal!!! LoL
Photographer
John Silva Photography
Posts: 590
Fairfield, California, US
IDiivil wrote:
Are you folks noticing an overall change from the past here on MM when it comes to views, comments, and lists on your images? I feel like overall interaction ratings have dropped across the board (in other words, less people looking at images, commenting, etc).
I'm aware Facebook, Instagram, etc has made major changes to the way we view images, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me...
- And hey! If it isn't just me and MM interaction rates are truly dropping...
Where do people most engage with your images on the internet? Do you find more feedback on Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? What other sites? Christine, I'm new here so I don't have any history to draw upon. Nor am I on any of the other sites that you mention.
But just statistically speaking, there are probably 10 times as many participants today vs when you first started. So that means that that if people browse the site, they are 10x less likely to to find you amongst the masses.
But that also means that if you were to go looking for a photographer(etc.) that you would have 10x as many to pick from but be 10x less luckily to find any particular one.
For those that are actively looking for others to work with this seems like a WAY better scenario to me than when you started.
That also means that if you want to be just found, your lead-in Avatar image had better be that much more traffic stopping.
Maybe to some that's a double edged sword but to me, I'd much rather browse 1 million participants than 1000!!!! Just me.
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
Yes, I've noticed the same thing. And even my interactions here are much less compared to a few years ago.
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
John Silva Photography wrote:
But just statistically speaking, there are probably 10 times as many participants today vs when you first started. . I seriously doubt that. There was much more activity on the forums in 2010 compared to today. Therefore, one could surmise that more active members were participating back then.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
J O H N A L L A N wrote:
I think on MM (besides the seriously declin(ed/ing) membership, one can point directly to when the front page changed as a big driving factor. With the old front-page which was simple and effective, people would go there regularly. When people posted on the front page that they had new work up, people would go look at it and comment/list. With the new front page, no one goes there any more. Now it's intended to drive new membership for IB, not be of any use to the existing membership.
"MM the new My Space"
P.S. actually some here will remember that when MM first started in 2005, they actually referred to it as (can't remember exact verbiage) The MySpace for Models in the heading of the site. I never go to the front page anymore.
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20621
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
udor wrote:
Instagram: 90
Facebook: 11 (despite that fact that I have more than twice the amount of contacts on FB than on IG)
Twitter: 3
Tumbler: 0.3 (a like every three or five days)
Model Mayhem:... Gets only a honorary mention as I get only 3 or 4 comments per year... but I also don't update... or care... A good part of the heavy "likes" on IG while MM gives you minimal activity is that you're appealing to two different audiences. Your IG followers are probably more regular, ordinary people that may or may not have an interest in photography so when they see an image that you're displaying they'll probably be apt more to 'like' it because they normally see selfies and crappy photos on IG and are not used to seeing good stuff.
The demographics on MM are people that are either in the business or have a heavy interest in it and a much better quality of photos are displayed in general, therefore more easily lost in the crowd.
--------------------------------------------------------
I personally get more hits during the airings of my friend's TV show. I'm one of the photographers (not for the TV show, but at her business). When a new episode airs she's required to go live on IG (or was it Twitter, I can't remember) to make comments and answer questions. Many of my photos are on her website(s) and people follow the trail until they get to mine. Not a lot of extra hits, but enough to be noticeable.
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20621
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that things have slowed down quite a bit around here.
My previous post (the one right above this) was created 3 hours ago and was displayed at the top of the forum until just a few minutes ago, where it's now listed as second.
Only a few years ago a 3 hour old thread would've been buried on page 2 or 3.
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
PhotographybyT wrote:
I seriously doubt that. There was much more activity on the forums in 2010 compared to today. Therefore, one could surmise that more active members were participating back then. Absolutely.
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that things have slowed down quite a bit around here.
My previous post (the one right above this) was created 3 hours ago and was displayed at the top of the forum until just a few minutes ago, where it's now listed as second.
Only a few years ago a 3 hour old thread would've been buried on page 2 or 3. Very, very true. The forums moved so fast you couldn't keep up with them,.
Right now, the number of threads active today in various forums are:
Newbie - 6
General - 6
Models - 2
OT - 9
HMS - 0
Photography - 15
That says a lot.
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