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Does anyone ENCOURAGE models to bring an escort?
There are about 480 threads that have the term "escort" and I've scanned but didn't find any that indicated that they ENCOURAGED models to bring escorts. Since I didn't find an appropriate one to tack this question, I've decided to start yet ANOTHER escort thread! LOL. My apologies to those who think we already have a plethora--and we undoubtedly do! I didn't do an analysis but the thread's seem to be NO escort or may be permitted under certain circumstances. There was one thread showing a situation where it was obvious, in retrospect, that she should have brought one. But there seemed to be no clearly positive affirmation of the concept as a routine SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). My analogy is that while you certainly wouldn't take an escort to a normal job, modeling, the relatively unregulated way we do it, in many respects is not a normal job at all! The US used to think that our presidents were normal citizens and wanted to treat them as such--and not give them a palace guard--because it looked too imperial. We were so concerned about appearances. After we lost 3 and had a serious attempt by two Puerto Ricans on Truman at Blair House, Congress decided that the temporary Secret Service protection plan needed to be funded permanently. In fact they have protection for life now (there was a period when Senator Lawton Chiles had it stopped because it was so expensive--about $500,000 per month per protectee!) POTUS is a virtual prisoner being monitored and followed by agents almost ALL the time. Except when they give them the slip. So the idea that modeling can be treated as normal is like trying to treat POTUS as normal. They simply aiN'T! Now, I agree, they're not in the same league either. I'm just trying to make the point with an extreme example that the argument that modeling the way MM does it is like a normal job is fallacious. It maybe something that many people are accustomed to, do it routinely, and safely, but very few jobs that I know of require such a loss of physical privacy and removal of all barriers. I'm not encouraging this practice, merely inquiring. So back to the title question, does any photographer actually ENCOURAGE models to bring an escort? If so, why? and with what experience? Dec 03 16 05:53 pm Link Dec 03 16 06:08 pm Link I think if you read those numerous threads you will see that there are indeed both models and photographers who advise models to bring an escort. I think they are a minority view, but they do exist. I think they sometimes make arguments supporting their view that have some merit, but in my opinion usually ignore the larger picture. As you indicated, bringing friends/escorts/spectators to your work is overall not very accepted, but there are of course some who are willing to make exceptions to the norm. Dec 03 16 06:50 pm Link Advise? Maybe. Suggest? Certainly. In fact, I usually assume it, if don't know the model, and ask it they are comfortable coming to my apartment, or would prefer me to book studio time so it's not just us. But encourage? Shit no. I would never pose for someone that told me I should really bring an escort - I'd be wondering what kind of 12 step program they were on. Dec 03 16 07:03 pm Link I use to allow them. Those days are done. If a model is worried that I might threaten her, make her feel uncomfortable, rape her or what ever then it's best we don't shoot anyway. Overtime there have been so many hubbies, boyfriends, pimps and sluggo's that do everything from want to control the shoot, to acting like harvard law professors where my model release is concerned. One even got angry and told me I was sketchy for giving the model a terms of use agreement. Hell, none of the other photographers did that so I was obviously doing something wrong. At the minimum they often eye check BF, Sluggo, etc to see if each pose meets with his approval and that's when she's wearing a parka and snow boots. No, I'm not going to deal with that crap with a hundred BF's so one little girl needs to feel safe. When I was still shooting local models I never tried to convince them not to bring anyone. I'd just say no think you, click next and I'd be done. Dec 03 16 07:11 pm Link FFantastique wrote: Actually, I've seen many postings in the escort threads by various photographers promoting the argument that models should have escorts. In fact, I've seen enough of it to start to divide such arguments into categories, i.e., sluggo, white knight, "manager", etc.. Dec 03 16 07:28 pm Link My suggestion ( and it's in my profile) is that if the model feels it necessary I am always ready to meet in some neutral space such as a coffee shop or food court, where the model and whoever she wants to bring along can look me over and size me up. If that's not enough she's welcome to have someone come along to my door and pick her up after the shoot, And I urge them to check references as a matter of course. To that extent, I guess one might say that I recommend models have escorts. But bodyguards in the studio during the shoot? Not since my earliest days! My rule is that if I feel at any point that the model is afraid to be with me for a shoot, then there's no shoot. The best safety device consists of careful due diligence and never putting oneself into a dangerous situation in the first place. All IMHO as always, of course. Dec 03 16 07:55 pm Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: "...if you feel you need to bring a boyfriend or chaperone, by all means bring him" Dec 03 16 08:19 pm Link I wouldn't actually ENCOURAGE models to bring an escort. Dec 03 16 08:48 pm Link Barry Kidd Photography wrote: Exactly! Overtime there have been so many hubbies, boyfriends, pimps and sluggo's that do everything from want to control the shoot, to acting like harvard law professors where my model release is concerned. Couldn't have said it better myself! It's been my experience that photographers who are OK with having an "escort" present on a shoot just haven't been doing it long enough to where they've run into enough problems with them. Sooner or later, they will realize it's a bad idea. While I can understand how a newb photographer can see an "escort" as someone who can hold a reflector or help on set or be the bodyguard for his little princess, once one of them breaks or steals an expensive piece of equipment from you that opinion is likely to change VERY quickly. Dec 03 16 10:03 pm Link I can count the number of times it's happened on one hand, but I've had photographers tell me that they will not shoot me unless I bring an escort. Some while I was obviously traveling and didn't just have some bff in tow to bring with me to shoots. And yes, as said above, there are photographers who not only don't mind if someone brings one to their shoots but actively encourage models to take escorts on all other shoots too. Dec 03 16 10:17 pm Link In the 10 years I've been here I can count on one hand the number of models who wanted to bring escort. Dec 04 16 04:13 am Link I want an escort since I do newbies. The shoots go a lot better with them. http://lautermilchmodels.com/ Dec 04 16 04:35 am Link I've had maybe 5-6 people ask me to bring an escort, in ten years. I never had anyone who could just drop what they were doing, call out of their jobs, dump their kids off with a babysitter and spend all day driving to and from a shoot, not to mention sitting around for 2-6 hrs while the shoot happened. I don't recall any of those shoots actually happening. I don't know anyone who doesn't have to work or take care of their own responsibilities Dec 04 16 04:49 am Link No photographer in his right mind would ever encourage a model to bring an escort to a shoot. Some will allow or permit escorts but to encourage? No. Dec 04 16 06:26 am Link FilmmakerDC wrote: Yyyeppp. Dec 04 16 07:27 am Link Rays Fine Art wrote: I work with other people on a professional basis only. Mixing work and coffee shop dates sounds rather inappropriate to me. Dec 04 16 11:49 am Link Not a fan of escorts, and if you look at images taken of models where an escort is present they seem distracted. So I may rarely allow it, but never encourage it. Dec 04 16 04:06 pm Link Interesting I just sat yesterday with a model while we waited for the power to come back on, this was one of the discussions Myself I would never encourage or initiate the idea of an escort, however I believe all cases are different and considerations be looked at, and with a prior meeting with both parties should give you an indication of how things would go. In this case it was to be a nude shoot , I met with the model and her boyfriend ( Both Travelling) and had a good conversation we aended rebooking because of the outage.........so I think each case deserves its own merit Kevin Dec 04 16 05:18 pm Link Bad things have happened to some models, even some here on MM. Nothing has really changed in 5000 yrs. Models are encouraged to play safe and bring 'escorts' when unsure. Nervous models don't make good subjects either. While not all models are apprehensive, don't be critical of the ones that are. This is not a reflection on the OP or the majority of photographers, so don't take it personally. Its a product of our lovely world. It only takes 1 demented to spoil everything for everyone. I haven't seen any evidence that model-photography is any riskier than most ordinary things we do, probably less risky than hooking up after a few bevies, we still need to take regular precautions. But I agree its bad when there's someone extra on set who is distracting or impatient, or anyone not contributing or draining energy. Many b/f's are bad news, but some minority of b/f's can be really helpful and an asset. Even some g/f's or sisters can be bad news. But how can you tell in advance? I understand the no escort policy that many photographers have and you that see at nearly all professional gigs. But I also understand its nasty out there and even a few creeps ruin it for everyone, some quite seriously. I hear from the photographers who are intimidated or ripped off by some 'escorts' or body guards, so it goes both ways. I hear from the photographers who won't put up with escorts wandering round their house or poking through their gear or engaging in some off-topic conversation. But that's still nothing like getting physically assaulted. Its important that each party makes their terms & conditions clear, everyone has different needs and is in a unique situation. Don't like it, then walk away. Everyone should have that choice, respect the 'safety word". But if we want a safer playground then everyone has to do their part to make it safe. Back to the question -- I often encourage models I don't know to bring someone they know to 'assist', with certain conditions of course. So someone who can help - adding energy with styling, makeup, dressing, lugging gear, holding modifiers or smoke. I feel this is a good compromise. Only a few take up the offer, but they already feel better that the choice is theirs. If the shoot is someplace isolated, then I'd wouldn't even ask someone I don't already know. Dec 04 16 06:15 pm Link Rays Fine Art wrote: TomFRohwer wrote: Not at all! What do you think the dining rooms at the Yale Club are for? Dec 04 16 08:16 pm Link I've certainly had photographers contact me who encouraged me to bring someone. I've also had those who stated I could bring someone if I wanted or that they didn't mind, but I see that as a more neutral statement. I don't bring anyone with me as I don't feel I need to. I try to screen people carefully and I only shoot within my local area as I'm not a traveling model. Anyway... I start to feel a red flag when I'm told either 1) I absolutely cannot bring someone with me (especially given that I state I don't in my profile) or 2) I'm told I must bring someone with me. The former seems controlling and overly worried about someone else being around and the latter seems paranoid or like the person has had issues in the past. Either way, insistence on the issue is sometimes a red flag. But encouraging me to bring an escort is something I have experienced and I normally just explain that I'm comfortable on my own and don't have anyone available. And really, the only person I would have available is my husband who is also a photographer and doesn't really want to sit there while I shoot. Dec 04 16 10:15 pm Link we've always allowed escorts (and sometimes family/friends) on set and have never had any major problems. occasional grumpy boyfriend. Dec 05 16 06:39 am Link KModel Photography wrote: Here is the thing I've learned about photographers who don't allow escorts on their shoots...at one time in their career, they all allowed escorts on their shoots, myself included. But the longer you work as a photographer shooting models, you start to see that escorts are way more of a liability than an asset. Sure, on paper, it sounds like a great idea to have an extra set of hands on-set to lug gear around...until they break something valuable. Sure it sounds great to have someone there to make the model feel more relaxed...until they distract the model so much that they ruin the shoot. It's like I wrote above...everything sounds great on paper until enough bad things happen...and they WILL happen, that you start to realize that having escorts on a shoot is a rookie move. Dec 05 16 08:09 am Link Over the years I have worked with a number of photographers and artists who encouraged or strongly suggested that a friend should accompany a woman who was going to do nude work with them. A few of them would not work with a naked model unless she did bring someone along. Quite a few of the photographers I know always have a female assistant, which is done for the same reasons a model would want to bring someone along. This is most likely the best solution whenever possible. Dec 05 16 08:34 am Link Koryn wrote: I'm curious - do you remember what their reasoning was for asking you to bring someone? Dec 05 16 09:06 am Link Rays Fine Art wrote: For meeting models? It's no different (only cheaper) than two businessmen meeting over lunch to discuss a possible merger or two heads of state meeting at the official residence of one or the other. A photoshooting isn't a business merger. Many a successful negotiation takes place in a social atmosphere. In one of my earlier lives I sold real estate where it was not at all uncommon, when showing a number of possibilities to potential buyers, to stop for lunch or even a cup of coffee to work out details of possible offers, financing, etc. Again: selling/buying real estate plays in a different price tag league than modelling. There's a big difference between a professional meeting, whether at a fancy restaurant or a Starbuck's, and a date and anyone that doesn't know the difference is doomed to both a lousy professional and a lonely social life. Definitely. I'm just wondering why the heck a model can come up with the idea that somebody who might abuse a photo shooting for indecent purposes couldn't do so as well with a coffee shop meeting... And who has really inappropriate intentions most probably will not be so stupid to display them at a Starbuck's... Dec 05 16 09:39 am Link TomFRohwer wrote: I absolutely agree. At most it is part of a package of safety practices that may include: Dec 05 16 10:11 am Link my wife and i worked together on all the shoots. i remember one shoot with a paying customer where i had to hide in the bathroom while my wife did the camera work for the racy part of the shoot. MatureModelMM wrote: Dec 05 16 11:05 am Link ontherocks wrote: You have to make sure the paying customer is comfortable, so it sounds like you did the right thing by not being in the studio. Maybe not hiding in the bathroom, though, but going somewhere away from where the photography was taking place. Dec 06 16 07:15 am Link Greg Kolack wrote: I don't think anyone ever provided a rationale. Dec 06 16 08:20 am Link Koryn wrote: I think that this is the probable reason. Dec 06 16 08:30 am Link There are many problems with male escorts. Even boy-girl shoots can be a problem. Men have dominance issues just like my dog. I've only used a very few male models for b-g shoots. Couples are best but the men still think they have to play a protective role. If he is her bodyguard, then do I need someone else as my bodyguard. I don't have a problem with female escorts, if I feel comfortable with them. Lesbian girlfriends can be worse then the men. Meeting in a public place , getting a feel for each other, decide what to do. A female assistant is the best way to go. The photographer just may need a witness to sign the release or for whatever else. Dec 06 16 09:21 am Link I would only ever want, (and in this case require) someone else to be with the model if the model were a minor, and in that case a parent or legal guardian. Dec 06 16 09:23 am Link i've wound up shooting the female friend/escort on several occasions. one of them used the pics to get signed onto mayhem. for me the most cringeworthy interaction between model and escort happens with high school girls and their moms. SunshineModels wrote: Dec 06 16 11:32 am Link Hmm...mom, dads, grandmas, bf's, bffs, really make no difference to me. I have never told a model she couldn't bring anyone to a shoot and I don't have any escort horror stories. I regularly shoot models from 15yr-21yrs But, I have no problem telling someone that being a distraction the need to sit in the front lobby. Dec 06 16 11:53 am Link I don't want anyone under 18 in my studio . Ever. If they are in the front lobby, there is no issue. I see now! We have to decide what type of photography . Kids, family, fashion models from agencies,. ... Erotic? If a dangerous situation develops it's too late to tell them to wait outside. People have to realize that the photographers are at risk also. Dealing with the general public has inherent risks. Dec 06 16 12:19 pm Link I could care less... as long as they do not distract or interfere... or as in times past... steal, damage, etc... They can bring what ever or whom ever it takes for them to feel comfortable and give me their best work. I have found that a model who is uncomfortable with the people who they are posing for, rarely does their best work... Dec 06 16 01:53 pm Link I have a long spiel I send to all prospective models I have not yet worked with. this is the part on chaperones. "I don't mind escorts so long as they are not disruptive to the process and they stay and hang with us. They also have to not mind if I ask them to assist to be a part of the process, i.e. holding a light, reflector, or a fan or who knows what, but If I need a hand that they are ok with that. I ask this as I have had situations of boyfriends out in the driveway with a thumper cars while they smoke weed sucking on a 40 being a nuisance and that gets weird. I like for things to stay more professional and I expect escorts to be a part of that vibe." So far its helped. Dec 06 16 04:34 pm Link Never would encourage. Don't allow them. If a model brings up the subject, I pretty much move on. Don't want to deal with that shit. Dec 07 16 07:47 pm Link |