Photographer
A_P
Posts: 18
Los Angeles, California, US
I see tons of photographers overestimating or underestimating who they really are. They just don't know how to measure their 'professionalism'. To me everything ends with one single question: 'Are you fully booked or not?' Yes - means people want your work, they see value in it and they'll pay for it. No - means no!  Boom! Done! Easy huh?! Of course most of 'pro photographers' would say: 'I do this part time only!' or 'It's a hobby!' or 'I only take maximum 5 clients a year!' etc etc etc. Yeah, all good reasons but I haven't seen a single person who would turn down a well paid gig because 'It's a hobby' haha...just doesn't make sense especially if you have all this free time...right?! Saying that, I guess, you don't have those well paid offers right? Which means people don't want to hire you....aaaand....bare with me here....that means....they don't like your work! Boom (#2)! So... Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity). Unfortunately or not, this is how it works! And now... tell me... Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER?
Photographer
phantom of the light
Posts: 114
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
Who's bringing the popcorn? DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
I see tons of photographers overestimating or underestimating who they really are. They just don't know how to measure their 'professionalism'. To me everything ends with one single question: 'Are you fully booked or not?'
Yes - means people want your work, they see value in it and they'll pay for it.
No - means no!
Boom! Done! Easy huh?!
Of course most of 'pro photographers' would say: 'I do this part time only!' or 'It's a hobby!' or 'I only take maximum 5 clients a year!' etc etc etc. Yeah, all good reasons but I haven't seen a single person who would turn down a well paid gig because 'It's a hobby' haha...just doesn't make sense especially if you have all this free time...right?! Saying that, I guess, you don't have those well paid offers right? Which means people don't want to hire you....aaaand....bare with me here....that means....they don't like your work! Boom (#2)!
So...
Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity).
Unfortunately or not, this is how it works!
And now...
tell me...
Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER?
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
There are a few professional photographers that post here.
I know who they are.
Photographer
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 6597
Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
So...
Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity). Wrong.
A Professional Photographer earns a living from His or Her Profession
Nothing more, nothing less.
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER? Nope.
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 23772
Orlando, Florida, US
Calling myself a "PP" jest don't sound right, do it . . .  SOS
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
I'm a goof and would starve to death trying to be a professional. I also want to add that being good and making money are not mutually exclusive. There are hobbyists who are better then most pros yet never promote themselves or their work. Having thousands of followers on IG may never translate to paid assignments either. If paid work is your goal then its important to get your work in front of art directors at ad agencies. Sadly many pros struggle for paid work especially those at the lower or mid levels. They are competing with folks who often work for peanuts and worse are usually pretty good. There is a famous story about a MM member who sold his image for a Time magazine cover for $30.00. It was a shot of gumballs in a glass jar. That same shot would have gone for hundreds more had Time had a pro shoot it or even had used a stock image. So no I'm no pro and I don't envy many who are.
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11725
Olney, Maryland, US
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
I see tons of photographers overestimating or underestimating who they really are... What is it that you want critiqued?
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 2629
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
I don't think I'll ever transition from hobbyist to professional. My day job is too much fun and lucrative. I guess I'm lucky that I enjoy my 9-to-5, and it pays well, and I also get to play with cameras. I do get booked, but all I make in photography gets put back in to pay for shooting expenses. So in a way, it's a self-sustaining hobby.
My goals isn't so much as to be a "Professional Photographer", as it is to be a photographer who produces professional caliber work.
PS-- Bobby Jones, one of the greatest golfers of all time, never left his amateur status.
Photographer
Photo Jen B
Posts: 358
Surprise, Arizona, US
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
...
Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity).
Unfortunately or not, this is how it works!
And now...
tell me...
Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER? I am not a PP and the handful of people I know in real life that PP usually don't describe themselves as PP outright.
Jen
Photographer
Photo Jen B
Posts: 358
Surprise, Arizona, US
Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'm a goof and would starve to death trying to be a professional. I also want to add that being good and making money are not mutually exclusive. There are hobbyists who are better then most pros yet never promote themselves or their work. Having thousands of followers on IG may never translate to paid assignments either. If paid work is your goal then its important to get your work in front of art directors at ad agencies. Sadly many pros struggle for paid work especially those at the lower or mid levels. They are competing with folks who often work for peanuts and worse are usually pretty good. There is a famous story about a MM member who sold his image for a Time magazine cover for $30.00. It was a shot of gumballs in a glass jar. That same shot would have gone for hundreds more had Time had a pro shoot it or even had used a stock image. So no I'm no pro and I don't envy many who are. Tony, you are no goof!
Love,
Jen
Retoucher
3869283
Posts: 1464
Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity). There are people who make business by shooting weddings, events, photojournalism, kid portraits, stock media, CG assets, medical, technical, reference and forensic images etc. Professionalism doesn't mean sitting on the right side of god.
Photographer
still-photography
Posts: 1591
Bothell, Washington, US
DEEPSTEP STUDIO wrote:
Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity).
Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER? According to YOUR criteria, no I'm not a professional photographer.
- I don't shoot for well known magazines.
- I have zero social media followers.
- You wouldn't recognize the name of the publisher who employs me.
According to the fact that just about 98% of my income over the past 40 years has been produced by me taking pictures in exchange for money, yes I'm a professional photographer. (Full time at a publishing company where my job title is PHOTOGRAPHER).
Now, I have a question for you.
Are you FULL OF SHIT?
Photographer
A Thousand Words
Posts: 590
Lakeland, Florida, US
still-photography wrote:
According to YOUR criteria, no I'm not a professional photographer.
- I don't shoot for well known magazines.
- I have zero social media followers.
- You wouldn't recognize the name of the publisher who employs me.
According to the fact that just about 98% of my income over the past 40 years has been produced by me taking pictures in exchange for money, yes I'm a professional photographer. (Full time at a publishing company where my job title is PHOTOGRAPHER).
Now, I have a question for you.
Are you FULL OF SHIT? THIS!!
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Trying to find the critique part in all this. I mean, it's not really a critique if we give you our opinion of ourselves. It's also not a critique if you're not asking us what we think of your work.
So what's it gonna be? You critique us, or we critique you? You seem to have already formed a rather smug opinion about all of us, so I'm wondering if you actually posted this just to let us know you've got the biggest dick in the playground.
Am I a "professional" according to your definition? Who gives a shit? Is my work any good? If it is, then I'm either already getting paid work,or I have the potential to get paid work. Regardless, some of us are more interested in pursuing art than we are chasing the almighty dollar.
So, since this is the Critique forum, why don't you ask a more relevant question? Otherwise, I'd suggest moving this "look at me" post to the "Pat yourself on the back" forum.
Photographer
Black Z Eddie
Posts: 1903
San Jacinto, California, US
Photographer
Half Taco Photography
Posts: 187
Manitowoc, Wisconsin, US
No, but i stayed at a holiday inn last night! Does that count?
Photographer
Lee_Photography
Posts: 9863
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Having seen some of the work on magazine covers there are some that I would not want to put my name to. Over all it seems like the photography bar has been lowered. I suppose that magazines need to make a profit so if they can get a cheep photo to use on the cover its more money in there pocket.
As to being a professional, when going to shoots I have had onlookers ask if I was a professional, I would hesitate and say no, some times the assistant would question me why I gave that answer, just felt funny to say I was, still learning all the time but having fun.
I wish you well
Photographer
Julietsdream
Posts: 868
Burbank, California, US
Photographer
Julietsdream
Posts: 868
Burbank, California, US
Anton Polygalov wrote:
I see tons of photographers overestimating or underestimating who they really are. +1
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 2629
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
Lee_Photography wrote:
As to being a professional, when going to shoots I have had onlookers ask if I was a professional, I would hesitate and say no, some times the assistant would question me why I gave that answer, just felt funny to say I was, still learning all the time but having fun. Continuing to learn is part of every profession. Doctors have to take X amount of hours of credited continued education every year to maintain their board certification. Engineers have to learn new standards to keep up. Photographers have to constantly learn the new features of updated gear and software.
Why would you be ashamed to say you're a professional because you're still learning? You wouldn't be a good professional if you stopped.
Photographer
Lee_Photography
Posts: 9863
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Francisco Castro wrote:
Continuing to learn is part of every profession. Doctors have to take X amount of hours of credited continued education every year to maintain their board certification. Engineers have to learn new standards to keep up. Photographers have to constantly learn the new features of updated gear and software.
Why would you be ashamed to say you're a professional because you're still learning? You wouldn't be a good professional if you stopped. Interesting point of view
Thanks!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Anton Polygalov wrote:
And now...
tell me...
Are you a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER? Are you trolling, Anton?
I get your overall sentiment... but, I think that you are too far off the mark.
Your description of what constitutes a professional photographer is limited by your own limited knowledge of the industry.
When I am reading your qualifiers..., I feel that I am less than a hobbyist, and I've been published in Marie Claire and Inc. Magazine only once and don't shoot for any major publication..., I mean... of the magnitude you require.
My IG fashion profile has less than 2,000 followers and I just can't build up more beyond that.
//snip//
As an unqualified person as a low level amateur photographer, in your view... I recommend to eat some humble-pie and acknowledge the endeavors of part timers and hobbyists... some of them produce high level pro images, because they LOVE what they are doing.
I am inviting you, with a helping hand, to get off your f.....g high horse!
Lastly..., photography is my only source of income...
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 9421
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I've always considered myself an "Amateur Photographer"
Fortunately, I have been able to pay for my expensive hobby with my camera skills.
KM
Photographer
PhotoACR
Posts: 352
Los Angeles, California, US
still-photography wrote:
Now, I have a question for you.
Are you FULL OF SHIT? Good question,
not to sure really what this post is all about except to let everybody know that you are a PP and the others are mostly posers.
Lighten up, nobody is questioning your status as a photographer and you probably should not be questioning other photographers in MM.
Photographer
thiswayup
Posts: 1136
Runcorn, England, United Kingdom
PhotoACR wrote:
Good question,
not to sure really what this post is all about except to let everybody know that you are a PP By the criteria he proposed, I doubt it.
If he had worthwhile publications then he'd be crazy not to list them on the site for his studio. He doesn't. And I can't find any publications for him using google. And while etiquette forbids me discussing his work, his studio website gives out ***all*** the wrong vibes - godawful bed set, only two flash units, no discussion of background system - in fact apparently he doesn't even have one - or of stands, flags... He expects people to shoot video but his only lights for it are a single small LED panel for which he doesn't give CRI or model number... Very low end light modifiers and not properly described - eg his only beauty dish is 16'' and he doesn't say if he has a sock or grid...
Photographer
Guss W
Posts: 10964
Clearwater, Florida, US
I think there are going to be a lot of weekend wedding photographers who disagree with that full-time stuff. They carry their professionalism with them to their work, even if it's only a couple of days a week.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Anton Polygalov wrote:
So...
Let's make it clear... Professional photographer is a full time photographer with published work (I'm talking about well known magazines and not a home made brochure!), good amount of social media followers (especially these days!), and well known clients (corporate or celebrity).
Unfortunately or not, this is how it works! I just stumbled upon this roaring dumpster fire of a thread and I can't believe what I'm reading here. I'm under the assumption that UDOR is right and that you're just trolling but for the sake of argument, let's assume you're serious here.
I've seen some arrogant and stupid shit in these forums before but wow...this one is an award winner. I just love it when people roll into forums like this and one of their first posts they start lecturing others on topics they clearly don't know anything about. As you obviously need to get schooled on this a bit, there are countless ways photographers earn a living that don't involve anything you just stated as requirements. First though, let's establish the term..."professional", meaning, "following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain" as per the dictionary. The term is really quite simple, do you earn a living using photography as your occupation. Plain and simple. Everything else you stated is just pure nonsense.
The overwhelming majority of professional photographers I know, work with, or hire do not fit any of the categories you mentioned and I can assure you, are just as much of, or even more so of a professional photographer than you are! One of the photographers who I contract work to on a regular basis owns her own portrait studio here in town. She mostly focuses on family or senior portraits, weddings, some commercial work, and when I need her, corporate events. She is a very busy photographer and has the upsells and packages down to a science. It's all she does and 100% of her income comes from doing this. I don't think she's been published in a major publication once and she has zero presence on social media sites.
Just off the top of my head I can think of about a dozen other photographers that meet this type of background but contrast your demented criteria of what a "professional photographer" actually is. I think my favorite example is a photographer I met a few years ago who's a friend of a friend. This guy's photography business DWARFS whatever business you think you own. Seriously, your best year as a photographer is a fraction of what this guy does. All he does is shoot weddings for princes and royalty from the middle east. He probably shoots a half a dozen weddings a year and has a multi-million dollar a year business doing so. It started with photography but based on the demands of his clients, it grew and grew to where he supplies the logistics for these weddings. I believe he still owns his own elephant that he uses for these weddings. Do YOU own your own wedding elephant? I bet no, but he does, and his average wedding he puts together is way over $1 million and it all starts with the photography. His social media following is about zero. Why? Because he gets bookings via word-of-mouth, not his instagram photos. Why? Because his total target market is in the hundreds.
How about the traveling photographers who shoot sporting events or rock concerts that earn 100% of their income from photography? Are they any less "professional" than you are? I have a friend who only shoots high-end seminars under contract from a few companies, all of which you have never heard of. He travels around the world shooting seminars. 100% of his income is from photography yet he has no social media presence, no famous clients, no studio, etc. Yet he earns a good 6-figure income from photography. I guess that doesn't make him a "professional" though, right?
I can write dozens of anecdotes of photographers who don't fit your description all day. Hell, even I don't fit your mold and I can assure you, I'm very much a professional photographer and I've been one for a lot longer than you have. While I do have an extensive list of high-profile clients, it didn't start that way. Years before I signed companies like Prudential, Toyota, AT&T, and Expedia to my client list, it all had to start with one. This is the crucial point you're not comprehending. Just because you don't have a shoot for a Fortune 500 company name or an A-list celebrity under your belt doesn't make you any less of a professional photographer. There mere thought that those are two requirements for what makes you a "professional photographer" is just laughable.
Photographer
IMAGINERIES
Posts: 2048
New York, New York, US
I am not a professional photographer since I never got a dime from taking pictures and, further more, most the models if not all, were financially compensated for their collaboration.
Photographer
OpenMind Photography
Posts: 609
Madison, Alabama, US
I thought the only qualification to be a "professional" anything was that you were compensated for your work or use of your skill.
Photographer
OpenMind Photography
Posts: 609
Madison, Alabama, US
I thought the only qualification to be a "professional" anything was that you were compensated for your work or use of your skill.
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 13564
Washington, Utah, US
I'm not a professional photographer, and after making some money at photography have no desire to be. There are easier ways to make a living.
To me, how people here classify themselves is irrelevant however. I've seen people with almost no experience check they are "very experienced". To me, a portfolio speaks volumes more than any self description of one's ability. I don't care if a model makes a full time living as a model or only models occasionally. I care that she meets my shoot needs.
Photographer
PhotoACR
Posts: 352
Los Angeles, California, US
Seems to me the only purpose of the OP is to proclaim himself as a PP and at the same time dare everybody else to do some soul searching and see if you measure up to him.
Pretty condescending when there are lot of remarkable photographers here, much more remarkable than what I see in his MM port.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
PhotoACR wrote:
Pretty condescending when there are lot of remarkable photographers here, much more remarkable than what I see in his MM port. Sometimes it's hard to understand things like this when you are throwing stones from your glass house.
Photographer
martin b
Posts: 2770
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
I guess I don't qualify by your definition to be a professional photographer. I don't really see your point. I shoot very basic work that earns me enough to keep a roof over my head. I don't really have any desire to shoot for magazines. There are better ways to earn a living as a photographer than working for magazines. Weddings and events pay better anyway. Running a photo studio may be your way into the millioniares club but I don't see why you think it disqualifies the rest of us.
Photographer
Keith Moody
Posts: 548
Phoenix, Arizona, US
I'm not a professional photographer but a play one on TV.
Photographer
PhotoKromze
Posts: 315
Lisbon, Lisboa e Vale do Tejo, Portugal
The OP is entitled to his view of what a professional photographer should be. Doesn't mean we have to lose our collective sleep on it.
Just my worthless 2 cents!
Photographer
martin b
Posts: 2770
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
I do understand his point of view to a certain extent. In the Philippines, most photographers that are successful are considered hobbyists. There are very few who actually earn their living from shooting. I shoot with a couple of others who work full time as photographers but even though the bulk of their energy goes into photography, the bulk of their income comes from other sources.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
martin b wrote:
I do understand his point of view to a certain extent. In the Philippines, most photographers that are successful are considered hobbyists. There are very few who actually earn their living from shooting. I shoot with a couple of others who work full time as photographers but even though the bulk of their energy goes into photography, the bulk of their income comes from other sources. No different here. Even at the large photography conferences attendance is reflective of that too. We have WPPI here in Las Vegas every year, which brings in thousands of people for a convention targeting wedding photographers. By their own numbers, only about 1 in 20 attendees are actual, working professionals full time.
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