Swank Photography wrote:
This flat out.

Now Occasionally I have and will work with a minor...but to me it is so frustrating because more often than not the parents are either:

(a) divorced and therefore more interested in pissing each other off instead of focusing on their child (model)

OR

(b) one parent is (usually) in a state of dis approval on some level, therefore, causing more issues at hand

OR

(c) one parent is over-bearing to the point of stressing out the model, therefore causing issues.

OR

(d) neither parent gives a shit about their child (model), therefore the child/model tries to push the boundaries with me by asking to do "mature" poses which I will not allow because I am too freaking cute to be someone's bitch in prison

I have had C & D situations and each one made me incredibly nervous--Who needs the stress?

Lumigraphics wrote:

That's a sad and pathetic attitude to have, frankly. One dumbass mother has a problem and so you won't shoot anyone under 18? Wow.

Actually, no.  It was not one dumbass mother.  She is only one example in a long line of lunatics who have plagued me for the last half-decade.  I was driven out of my Catholic church of 38 years for being both gay and a photographer.  Never mind that I spoke at high school abstinence seminars. The charge was led by a "caring christian mother".  Another actually filed charges with local police because to her, no gay man would ever be a photographer unless he had some insidious plot going on behind the scenes with small children. That led to an ungodly rigmarole and I lost multiple friends due to her rumor-mongering.  Another mother insisted I be barred from my volunteer work with civic theater as the repertory shows feature high school students.  Since I took the headshots of the performers to hang in the lobby, I was deemed a danger and banned.

My attitude is not pathetic.  It is one born of an ongoing battle against the aggressively small-minded.  I have long since stopped assuming that each ranting mother who desires to hurt an innocent professional is that "one in a million" bad person and no others I encounter will be like her.

The attitude I have adopted is well-considered and encouraged by legal counsel.

So:  If you're not old enough to legally sign a contract and have photo identification to prove it, stay the hell away form me.  And take your mother with you.

VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

I am 16 and have trade shoots with different photographers all the time. Do these photographers you speak of shoot nudes/nude art/glamor? If so, a minor is not the best choice for that... lol. Maybe look for someone who wants to shoot what you want/can shoot. If you can't, then you could consider paying a photographer until your port becomes attractive to photographers who may be willing to trade (not saying it isn't already - I don't know).

Also as a minor, the photographers usually require an escort, which I provide, but it is not always a parent. Some MUA are my escorts (once my mom gets to know them - lol that sounds funny to say) ... and all models generally have to sign a release anyway, just with a minor, your parent has to sign it.... Someday we will grow up... lol.

So far, so good - been a lot of fun. I wish you all the best!

Bri

Briana Robertson wrote:

you're pretty impressive

Cascading Falls Photogr wrote:
LIABILITY!  The courts and the police are paranoid about older men and females under 18 If you get put on a sex offender list, your life is ruined.
I shoot with minors, but only if a parent is present and I usuall demand a notorized release.
Last year while traveling for my book, I was shooting with 2 models in a park in Gillette, Wy. The models were 22 and 25 but looked young. A local called the police and said some dirty old man was shooting pictures of underage girls in bathing suits.
I had 3 cruisers and 6 officers there in 15 min. and was detained for over an hour. They ran a complete background check on me before I could resume. Even after they had checked the models drivers license.
Many photographers just don't want to deal with this.

And if one was under 18 all that would be needed to ruin your life would be a DA with political ambitions trying to "protect the children".

Silly Eddy wrote:
I've only ever photographed one person who's under 18 and they're one of my best friends. I only asked them to check if it was alright with their parents and in any case she wouldn't get me into trouble or vice versa.

On a personal note, I refuse to do work (even real world employment) with anyone young. I just think that men get a really bad name and it entirely discourages me. I'm unemployed and our college was given a message that anyone could help out at a play school or whatever, but even though I need money I didn't apply. No I'm nothing dodgy and there are friends of my family who are young and I get on with them, but then their parents know me. I wouldn't want to be accused of any wrong doing, not that I would do any. To me it's just better to avoid it entirely. Instead, I apply to jobs where adults work and adults are around; hotels, restaurants, etc.

This has little to do with the photography side of it, but you sound like an outstanding young man, and so thoughtful.  I'm assuming that all you've said is true of course.  It so happens that I come from a family of teachers of both genders.  Let me just say that we were all children once.  With many more children coming from broken homes, I believe it's more important than ever for good male role models to be in contact with children. 

Don't be afraid.  If you are as good a person as you say, then there is nothing to fear of children.  I have not had children myself, but I have worked around them, and in some cases I was looked up to as a male role model.  Today some of these children have grown up and are best friends to me!   I have friends older and younger than I am, as well as of my age, and I find it enriches my life to be open to friendship no matter what age.

In general, I'm sorry that paranoia causes some people to fear working with others based on such factors as age, or other factors such as skin color, etc.  The vast majority of children are NOT going to be scary and make false accusations!   You don't have to photograph every one in the nude.  So try your hand at photographing children!  You might be glad you did!

Brian Douglas Ahern wrote:
Actually, no.  It was not one dumbass mother.  She is only one example in a long line of lunatics who have plagued me for the last half-decade.  I was driven out of my Catholic church of 38 years for being both gay and a photographer.  Never mind that I spoke at high school abstinence seminars. The charge was led by a "caring christian mother".  Another actually filed charges with local police because to her, no gay man would ever be a photographer unless he had some insidious plot going on behind the scenes with small children. That led to an ungodly rigmarole and I lost multiple friends due to her rumor-mongering.  Another mother insisted I be barred from my volunteer work with civic theater as the repertory shows feature high school students.  Since I took the headshots of the performers to hang in the lobby, I was deemed a danger and banned.

My attitude is not pathetic.  It is one born of an ongoing battle against the aggressively small-minded.  I have long since stopped assuming that each ranting mother who desires to hurt an innocent professional is that "one in a million" bad person and no others I encounter will be like her.

The attitude I have adopted is well-considered and encouraged by legal counsel.

So:  If you're not old enough to legally sign a contract and have photo identification to prove it, stay the hell away form me.  And take your mother with you.

That's fine then. I'm in Grand Rapids and will gladly take money to shoot minors if you don't want it.

Honestly, I'm laughing at the raw paranoia in this thread. Don't you people understand- YOU are helping make things worse with those attitudes!

R A V E N D R I V E wrote:

you're pretty impressive

Thank you very much - I have one of your images included in one of my lists that I just love (hope I can say that here).

R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
Think about it like this, say you have a job that requires people to drive out to,
people under a certain age always can't drive

you don't work with them.

I can't drive yet either, which is certainly an added thing to consider ... not sure if society would appreciate me driving around endangering everyone on the streets anyway.

Basically I think being a minor limits some opportunities... but so far I have not found anything I am limited to that bothers me other than not being able to drive.

Christine Rose wrote:
I work with minor models and even children a lot -- but not TF.

I have worked with a few 16 - 17 year olds on here TF but they were special.

It may be the genre of work you are looking for is not something that they are interested in shooting TF. For instance I don't shoot commercial work TF -- don't need it in my book -- I have plenty of it on my main site.

If you are paying I would think you would have no problem getting anyone to work with you.

When I have worked in studios, I had many children come through to be photographed of all ages.  I'm honored to have photographed new born all the way to 98 year olds!  Of course that is mostly portraiture work.  Before the Internet, I used to photograph a lot more teenagers that were from 17 to as young as 15 for their modeling portfolios or zed cards.   

Because of the paranoia caused in part by news media using the Internet to spread both accurate information and misinformation to the masses.  There is not a massive amount of rape, robbery and death caused by photographers!  Like you, I am more cautious with regard to the teenagers I work with.  In a society where parents would put their kids in false danger in an effort to get a "reality show" ("balloon boy") or feed their kids fast food and let them watch whatever they want on cable TV ... it's no wonder problems become magnified and exaggerated. 

I'm more fearful for what our society is doing to our children than I am of photographing them.

Lumigraphics wrote:
Honestly, I'm laughing at the raw paranoia in this thread. Don't you people understand- YOU are helping make things worse with those attitudes!

You speak the truth!

Briana Robertson wrote:

I am 16 and have trade shoots with different photographers all the time. Do these photographers you speak of shoot nudes/nude art/glamor? If so, a minor is not the best choice for that... lol. Maybe look for someone who wants to shoot what you want/can shoot. If you can't, then you could consider paying a photographer until your port becomes attractive to photographers who may be willing to trade (not saying it isn't already - I don't know).

Also as a minor, the photographers usually require an escort, which I provide, but it is not always a parent. Some MUA are my escorts (once my mom gets to know them - lol that sounds funny to say) ... and all models generally have to sign a release anyway, just with a minor, your parent has to sign it.... Someday we will grow up... lol.

So far, so good - been a lot of fun. I wish you all the best!

Bri

You are very impressive!  I see that you are signed with an agency! 

ShadeTree Photos wrote:

THIS. THIS is why I wont work with anyone under eighteen. Yes, I do erotic and nudes, yes, I do shoots that all would agree are adult in nature. I also do shoots that aren't, and I STILL wont work with an under eighteen model because of the problems it could cause, and it doesn't matter if your gay or straight or pink with purple polka dots- it can still happen.
Personally, I would much rather avoid this, although I will still do, say, a family shoot if its in exchange for an adult models time, and only if that's what he/she/hir/ze wants.

I completely agree. The OP seems mature and professional for her age but the truth of the matter is that most under 18 aren't comfortable infront of the camera and don't have as much experience. I am an exception such as OP.

Photography by Daniel wrote:
I too have been shoot minors for a while now. I just have 3 rules for shooting anyone under NJ's legal age.
1. One of the parents is always present.
2. Release is always signed
3. I have an assistant present at all times.
I keep the parent and an assistant to just avoid the potential of a he said she said problem

This is very good advice. Especially the advice to have his OWN assistant present.

Bill Mason Images wrote:
I have photographed countless teen and preteen models. I only shoot with the parent's approval and one parent must be present at the shoot. I have never had a problem with parents. I can't think of anyone that was a typical "stage parent". I can count on any of the parents I have worked with for a reference when the need arises. The minors I have photographed range from strict amateurs, usually the children of my friends, to professional agency models. I find them to be wonderful to work with. They tend to bring no drama to the shoots, they are eager to model and take direction very well. And since their parents are involved, they don't flake, they arrive prepared and on time. I have several of them that come back to me now for additional shoots. Many that I initially shot trade with are now paying me. Many have had me shoot their high school senior portraits or family portraits. Others have come to me after they turned 18 to create a more sophisticated, mature portfolio as they continue to model. I think if you are professional, respectful and wise about how you photograph minors, you will not have any issues with parents, the town gossips or the legal system. Maybe I've been lucky, too, with the parents an circumstances surrounding my shoots, but I plan to continue to do commercial shoots with minors.

Bill, Your experience with shooting minors is much like mine!

VanessaNicole wrote:
However the photographers I have contacted do various types of work from fashion all the way to nude. But I just want fashion and commercial right now and they won't respond.

Your not fashion height, but close enough to commercial that it's an option.
So I say put your energy into seriously pursuing the commercial for $$$ and
do fashion for fun and $$$ when it comes along.  To top it off you have a
glowing smile that the commercial world loves

Patrick Walberg wrote:
This has little to do with the photography side of it, but you sound like an outstanding young man, and so thoughtful.  I'm assuming that all you've said is true of course.  It so happens that I come from a family of teachers of both genders.  Let me just say that we were all children once.  With many more children coming from broken homes, I believe it's more important than ever for good male role models to be in contact with children. 

Don't be afraid.  If you are as good a person as you say, then there is nothing to fear of children.  I have not had children myself, but I have worked around them, and in some cases I was looked up to as a male role model.  Today some of these children have grown up and are best friends to me!   I have friends older and younger than I am, as well as of my age, and I find it enriches my life to be open to friendship no matter what age.

In general, I'm sorry that paranoia causes some people to fear working with others based on such factors as age, or other factors such as skin color, etc.  The vast majority of children are NOT going to be scary and make false accusations!   You don't have to photograph every one in the nude.  So try your hand at photographing children!  You might be glad you did!

Thank you

I think the youngest person I've ever photographed (not for modelling purposes, but at a party my father held) was around 7 or 8. That was fine because it was with their parents in the photograph. It was to celebrate their wedding anniversary at midnight and it was just a few snap shots to take home, nothing serious. That was perfectly fine.

As of yet I am still shooting the same few people whilst I build up my talents and confidence... To me it's a strange business telling people what to do, but it's something to work on.

One rather bad incident which probably made it a no-no in my mind to work with children came because of a person elder than me. I was good friends with someone a few months OLDER than me, but anyway her friends didn't like me to be around so started making a tonne of crap up and called me a paedo and what ever. Absolutely no wrong doing and just nasty... We never did anything, just close friends, but it stuck a bit. Needless to say I don't want the same to happen with someone younger when it is actually bad - They were older and so it was a ridiculous comment to make but it still sticks.

I can meet you on the part about having good younger friends. Bless them, I know a few children who are good friends to the family (their father, one of his sons and myself share the same name, which isn't helpful) and that's just fine because we all have known each other for many years. Because I don't like how in the worst case scenario it could look and how names can so easily be shouted, it's a grey area for me. If I ever had to work as a teacher I would choose a high school or college over a primary school... Even if for some reason the primary school pay was double. It's just the same feeling that you get whilst walking through airport security or past the police... You've done NOTHING wrong, but you feel completely guilty for something.

VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

I don't want to deal with the drama.   It's just a lot simpler all around to just say "no minors, period".   I'm sure I'm missing out with working with some great young people, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my own peace of mind.

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
Liability issues. Someone under the age of 18 cannot sign a legally binding contract, and usually require an escort, which some photographers don't allow. It's illegal to shoot minors in sexual ways, and lots of photographers enjoy doing nude/lingerie/glamour photography.

Also, maturity issues.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
QFT

Not quite...

Minors can sign legal/binding contracts. They can renege though. They do not need a parent or babysitter. You can shoot them in a glamorous way that isn't sexual...

Paul

Paul Brecht wrote:

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
Liability issues. Someone under the age of 18 cannot sign a legally binding contract, and usually require an escort, which some photographers don't allow. It's illegal to shoot minors in sexual ways, and lots of photographers enjoy doing nude/lingerie/glamour photography.

Also, maturity issues.

Not quite...

Minors can sign legal/binding contracts. They can renege though. They do not need a parent or babysitter. You can shoot them in a glamorous way that isn't sexual...

Paul

Here in Canada, a contract is not valid unless the person is over 18, or if an over 18 year old cosigns. Which is the reason why minors can't have cell contracts under their name, have credit cards, buy cars from a lot by themselves...

They don't NEED one, but what normal person is going to work alone with a young person? Really. It's so easy for that minor to dislike the photos, and then pull the "he touched me" card for attention. Of course adults can do it too, but it's so much more confusing if it's a child.

Sure, but who wants to deal with all of that for the possibility of a good shoot? The only genres I'd find appropriate for a minor would be commercial, beauty, and fashion. Not pinup, glamour, swimsuit(unless it's commercial, for a store or something), lingerie, etc etc even if the person is fully covered. Nuh uh.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
they are paranoid...

It's only paranoia if they aren't out to get you.

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
Here in Canada, a contract is not valid unless the person is over 18, or if an over 18 year old cosigns. Which is the reason why minors can't have cell contracts under their name, have credit cards, buy cars from a lot by themselves...

In the US (where the OP is), this is not the case though. Laws vary throughout the world...

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
They don't NEED one, but what normal person is going to work alone with a young person? Really. It's so easy for that minor to dislike the photos, and then pull the "he touched me" card for attention. Of course adults can do it too, but it's so much more confusing if it's a child.

I rarely ever shoot alone. At the studio I shoot @, there's always someone there @ the front office. I have hair/mu 99% of the time, because it isn't worth shooting without good make-up. Otherwise, I might as well shoot for Sears...

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
Sure, but who wants to deal with all of that for the possibility of a good shoot? The only genres I'd find appropriate for a minor would be commercial, beauty, and fashion. Not pinup, glamour, swimsuit(unless it's commercial, for a store or something), lingerie, etc etc even if the person is fully covered. Nuh uh.

This is subjective though. Ever since those Disney brats (Britney, Christina, etc) made it big, teenage girls wear lingerie to school as outerwear...

You definitely don't want to try & shoot sexually exploitive, but you can shoot quite a diverse amount of stuff with kids...

Look through this girl's port:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/member.cfm?ID=249879

Take note of the stuff she did with Bruce Smith for Supermodels Unlimited. She was 12 years old, when that was shot...

Neverless, her stuff is impressive for being 15, but even @ 12, well, she get's a few thumbs up from me. I talked with her mom back then & would have shot her in a heartbeat - still would...

If you ever would like to shoot a potential supermodel (I mean a real one, not one that is in their own mind), you have to catch them as a discovery, when they are young. By the time they're 18, they are either out of reach or over & done with...

Paul

Lumigraphics wrote:
Honestly, I'm laughing at the raw paranoia in this thread. Don't you people understand- YOU are helping make things worse with those attitudes!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
You speak the truth!

I completely agree as well.  I'm still waiting to see the police raid on the local mall "photo booth" because it doesnt ask for ID and probably under 18 is its largest customer demographic.

I will make this observation though, take from it what you will.  But I'd say in my observations and experiences I'd guess about 80% of the people spouting the paranoia and fear-mongering when it comes to "minors" are hobbyists and dont make a significant portion of their income with their camera's.

CGI Images wrote:

Lumigraphics wrote:
Honestly, I'm laughing at the raw paranoia in this thread. Don't you people understand- YOU are helping make things worse with those attitudes!

I completely agree as well.  I'm still waiting to see the police raid on the local mall "photo booth" because it doesnt ask for ID and probably under 18 is its largest customer demographic.

I will make this observation though, take from it what you will.  But I'd say in my observations and experiences I'd guess about 80% of the people spouting the paranoia and fear-mongering when it comes to "minors" are hobbyists and dont make a significant portion of their income with their camera's.

+1

Everlastcreations wrote:
Parents approval is a must and minor must have an escort present at all time during shoot to prevent any accusations or misunderstanding during the shoot from happening..

+1000