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Camera technology in the 1800's
A friend of mine sent an email to me with a photo attatched that was dated back around the 1870's. The email is as follows; Family records indicate that the woman we believe to be the one on the left was born in 1848. The location is on Benefit Street in Providence, close to where the Rhode Island School of Design is presently located. Note that the street is unpaved. Looking at the two women, I would judge them both to be under thirty, the one on the left looks to me to be not much over 25 if at all. That would put the photo in the 1870-1880 time frame. I am wondering about the technology at that time: was it possible to have had a photo that good at that time? Money would not have been an issue, so if the technology was available, then I am guessing that they would have been able to afford it. Here is the photo: here's the link to the larger size if you need more detail; http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l202/ … uzette.jpg If anything, he and I would love any and all information about photography and photographic technology in this time period. We believe it to be on a wet plate and definitely 4x5 or larger. But for some reason, I dont think i've ever seen a photo prior to 1900 that had quality this great. I am apparently mistaken. Feb 08 12 08:53 am Link Check to see if the clothes match this time period. Feb 08 12 08:56 am Link When I worked at the camera store downtown, in the basement we had glass plates usually 4x5 and some 8x10 sized though not exactly those dimensions), that were from around 1890-1910, when scanned on a large format film scanner, the quality is impeccable, basically had higher quality than some of those 20+ megapixel stuff now days. However keep in mind actually taking the pictures were far more cumbersome and slower paced, and course low light is next to impossible without long exposure (thus why many shots were outside or somewhat blurry/soft from indoor lighting). Also many of the older chemicals reacted to different wavelengths differently why some people seemed kind of off (i.e.: blue sensitive emulsion, etc) If I can dig up any of the old scans I saved years ago I'll post them here. But it's also completely possible that the time period could be off, we once had several glass plates of what appeared to be something like San Francisco, that we guessed were probably 20s or so, but turned out they were shortly after the major earthquake there as had shitload of huts and other stuff. Feb 08 12 08:57 am Link I see nothing to indicate that it is a fake. It would have been shot with an orthochromatic process, which would make blues appear white, which is the case in the sky. The roads are dirt, the costumes are true, and note that there is a 3rd horse, captured by accident, between the 2 in the front. If the picture were faked, they certainly wouldn't bring in a 3rd horse and have it hidden in the background. it looks good. The main reason for quality issues with old images are 1. THey have been damaged over time 2. The slow emulsion required tons of light or a slow shutter speed, causing a lot of blur. Here you have a bright, sunny scene, thus a faster shutter speed (froze the dog and horses) and a sharp picture. Feb 08 12 09:03 am Link Model Sarah wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography Feb 08 12 09:03 am Link I shoot wet plate, and this photo is looks like early dry plate. Wet plate was invented in 1851 and was popular through the mid 1870's when the dry plate negative was invented. People loved the change from wet plate to dry plate, because they could load their holders with glass plates and expose them on a Sunday and process them any time. Wet plate has to be poured, sensitized, developed, fixed all on site so you need more than a camera: you need a portable darkroom as well. Take care, steve Feb 08 12 09:06 am Link If what you say is correct about the lady's date of birth, it is safe to say these photos are post 1839 and pre-Eastman era. This means they are "Gelatin Dry Plate" photographs. This basically means the photographer's tent associated with early photography was not needed and shorter exposure times were possible. The evidence of this is the fact that they are sitting on horses, which tend to move. I'm curious as to why you think this is wet plate work. Something about the image in general though is particularly fine for the period and I wonder if it is much later. I've family photographs from the same period and the quality is noticably different. There's a whopping great clue, if you look at the box on the pavement, it appears to be for 10 x 8 plates. Feb 08 12 09:08 am Link Randy Henderson Images wrote: Um it isnt fake at all. That isnt the issue here. Feb 08 12 09:10 am Link Rollo David Snook wrote: I am not convinced it is wet plate it was just a suggestion. Feb 08 12 09:11 am Link There may well be some clues in the horses' tack as well. The carriage behind also. I'm going to offer a guess of 1885 give or take 2-3 years. Possibly earlier to 1875, definitely not much later than late 80's. Feb 08 12 09:13 am Link Model Sarah wrote: I understand. But your question was whether the technology was available to create a photograph of that quality at that time period. Feb 08 12 09:13 am Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: Ahh... wow thanks for the link. This is very fascinating stuff to me. Feb 08 12 09:13 am Link Randy Henderson Images wrote: No I didnt ask if there were, I was just shocked there actually is and I want to know more about it. I'm a photographer as well, and I shoot with mainly cameras from the 30's - 50's range and i'm starting to get into wet plate so absorbing as much info as I can is a great thing. Feb 08 12 09:14 am Link Wait, so you don't think it's fake, but you also aren't sure it's real...?? Huh? Feb 08 12 09:17 am Link V Laroche wrote: Um, no. I never thought it was fake I just didnt realize that technology was that amazing then. I never thought about the cameras they used and the processes etc. Which is strange, because I love that sort of thing. I suppose I just didnt think it was done back then. Feb 08 12 09:24 am Link Brady, et al., shot the Civil War and got excellent results. Roger Fenton shot the Crimean War in 1855 and produced this image. Feb 08 12 09:27 am Link Rollo David Snook wrote: Huh, duly noted. Feb 08 12 09:27 am Link MMDesign wrote: Ahh this beautiful! Thanks for sharing! Feb 08 12 09:28 am Link My wife who is an expert in vintage clothes dates the photograph to the early 1890s due to the clothes and hairstyles. Feb 08 12 09:31 am Link Roger Fenton's studio, 1855. Feb 08 12 09:31 am Link Hey Sarah You may enjoy this http://www.pbs.org/art21/artists/sally-mann And yes 19th century technology is more than adequate. If anything the modern tendency to exult convenience has reduced the quality of photography. Feb 08 12 09:32 am Link lol, rather rapidly adding five years and changing my view to 1890c. I'm envious, my photographs that I have aren't as well preserved or crisp. It's incredible to think Roger Fenton was in the Crimea... Feb 08 12 09:34 am Link MMDesign wrote: Ha! Yes I just stumbled upon that! 1855 I think. Feb 08 12 09:34 am Link MMDesign wrote: are those canon balls? Feb 08 12 09:35 am Link NewBoldPhoto wrote: Yep. I've seen that. I've heard some of my photographs are similar to her style but i'd never in a million years compare myself to her work. I admire it so much, and I just discovered her stuff maybe 2-3 years ago. Feb 08 12 09:36 am Link Christopher Hartman wrote: Either that or they had some really big horses. Feb 08 12 09:36 am Link Model Sarah wrote: Although this just appears to be a field with some cannonballs, it has a lot of meaning. The British, Turkish and French forces still used cannon balls, but the Russians had new forms of explosives, which nearly lost us the war, we lost over 30 ships and the war dragged on more than a few months. So this image is quite poignant. Feb 08 12 09:37 am Link Model Sarah wrote: Errol Morris tried to determine if Fenton staged the photo by adding canon balls. Feb 08 12 09:37 am Link NewBoldPhoto wrote: heh...just seems weird to see them lying about like that. I suspect they have not been fired...so maybe just dumped... Feb 08 12 09:37 am Link Christopher Hartman wrote: Yes, read the link above. Feb 08 12 09:39 am Link Low contrast image... They probably used a kit lens or didn't photoshop it quite right. Damn GWCs back then! Just kidding, that's a really nice photo, made incredible for the time. Feb 08 12 09:39 am Link All I have to say is that it was good work for the day! Feb 08 12 09:43 am Link Rollo David Snook wrote: Absolutely it does. Agreed. Feb 08 12 09:44 am Link You may, if you haven't already, want to talk to this guy https://www.modelmayhem.com/83821 He's big into old tech- VanDykes and gum powder prints, the whole deal. Feb 08 12 09:45 am Link NewBoldPhoto wrote: Thanks so much! I'll send him a note. I love working with people who are into those older processes. I worked with Marcus Ranum, Mark Sink and his fiance with wet plates a couple of years ago and it started a whole new thing for me beyond my medium format/35mm film. The process is just amazing and so very creative. Feb 08 12 09:48 am Link MMDesign wrote: I see his point totally, it's very valid, especially in war photography, a lot was staged as we know. Feb 08 12 09:54 am Link Model Sarah wrote: It was seeing my first large format platinum contact print that did it for me. I've been trying to get even a crude imitation out of PS ever since- wish I could afford the real thing. Feb 08 12 09:54 am Link Rollo David Snook wrote: I don't think anyone ever went back and cleaned up the canon balls. I think the belief is that he added to what he found there. Feb 08 12 10:01 am Link Ah that makes sense, some are embeded and some aren't. And there's rather a lot of cannon balls in one particular line of fire. Ground looks dangerous enough to gallop on, but with those balls flying at you... Feb 08 12 10:03 am Link Rollo David Snook wrote: Here's the start of the entire piece. It's rather long. Feb 08 12 10:04 am Link |