Gianantonio wrote:
So, even given the above—to those who do or plan to spank their kids--Why would you choose to spank your kids?

Because it can be the lesser of two evils.

Would you rather than have a sore red fanny or a burnt hand because they touched the hot stove? Would you rather their butt hurt or have brain damage because they didn't look while crossing the road while chasing their ball & got hit by a car?

Also there's a difference between a spanking that makes their butt hurt for 10 minutes & a spanking that either leaves it hurt for hours OR leaves black & blue marks.

Mac is Live wrote:
You know more than educated professionals? Your first reaction tells me what I need to know.

M A S T E R S wrote:
Those educated professional merely make educated guesses.

Please don't tell him about such facts....he won't believe it.  As was pointed out in his links- plenty of 'mays' all over. 

Hey, I may go out and play in the rare rain Vegas is having

JessieLeigh wrote:

I have some children you clearly need to meet, if you believe that.

Well, one of the confounds one can get caught up in is taking a known brat of a kid (potentially the product of ineffective parenting) and thinking the non-spanking techniques can transform such a kid overnight.

That's just not going to happen.  When I talk about the nopn-spanking methods working on any kid, I mean if you start with the non-spanking techniques from day 1.

M A S T E R S wrote:
Just curious: Of those who are "anti-spanking" here, how many have served in the military?

I served 8 years in the military.  I am a mother of a 25 year old and raised my son by myself from the age of 1.

Gianantonio wrote:

If I was raising my kids in an ineffective way, I would be the first to want to know it.  I'm not sure why so many people get defensive over it.  I mean it's their kids--I thought most people want the best for their kids.  But I guess not...

No the problem is you putting your fingers in your ears yelling, "Blah, blah, blah! I don't want to hear it!" No one is buying your no way or the highway attitude. Hence why you never got the answer to your questions due to attitudes like this in bold.

I seriously doubt that you'd want someone telling you that you're raising your kid wrong with the attitude in here where you see it as the right and only way. Others may come into your home and tell you that it's wrong. But whatever makes your boat float. Just don't get "defensive" when people don't take what you say as really informative when you're not really trying to help at all. You're judging. Big difference. I can disagree too, but I also know the difference and not tell others that they're out of line on raising their kids if I want to get my message or point across. Come off of that High horse reading that book.

Mac is Live wrote:
You aren't very adult with kids. Expecting them to do something without teaching them is wrong. It's the approach of a mentally ill person.

Spanking is hitting. You have admitted to abusing children. Are you aware of that? Smiling about it in your first post makes it even more worrisome.

Are you crazy?Trolling? Or just bad at reading comprehension?

Gianantonio wrote:

Sure--and that's what I'm trying to understand:  The "why" behind the different POVs.

Actually you're not trying to understand. It's hard to get an answer to a question when one has already come to the conclusion before it has been asked.

Gianantonio wrote:

If I was raising my kids in an ineffective way, I would be the first to want to know it.  I'm not sure why so many people get defensive over it.  I mean it's their kids--I thought most people want the best for their kids.  But I guess not...

Ineffective?  Says who?  Jury is still out on that one.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

Mac is Live wrote:
Most people don't want to admit they are wrong.

Here are more links:

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/spankin … _abuse.php

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/02 … s-20120702

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/spanking-k … d=16695697

Irony. I can post some links that show spanking works and you'll still be in denial.

Isabel Allende wrote:
I've found, in my personal experience, that kids respond much better to the consequence of having things they like (privileges) being taking away for an extended amount of time

That didn't work for me.  I was wild like the ocean.

Mac is Live wrote:

You know more than educated professionals? Your first reaction tells me what I need to know.

Education don't always mean one has common sense. I see a few of you in here that lack that. If a doctor tells you that you need to take a pill just because he's a doctor with a degree, do you take it?

Damon Banner wrote:
That didn't work for me.  I was wild like the ocean.

I was wild like a roller coaster.
I never obeyed. I kicked my mom in the face (I was squirming because I didn't want to be changed) when she was changing my diaper and after she spanked me, she told me to apologize or I wasn't allowed up to play. She kept asking "Are you sorry you hit mommy?" and I kept shaking my head no. It's on video and everything.
It's no wonder my mom still drinks (joke).


We're best friends now. Thankfully, lol.

M A S T E R S wrote:

Count how many times the word "MAY" appears in each of those articles. Not very convincing.

I may go to the post office today. Then again, I may not.

May or may not is case by case example. Some people deal with their problems better than others. I raised my two nieces and two nephews for a year. It was hard to get them to deal with their problems at first because their mother had been spanking them, but they do much better without it.

Nobody here wants to admit they are wrong. That's how people are in their adult lives. I was spanked. I don't spank because I know it's wrong.

If you spanked it doesn't mean you are a bad person it just means you are going about things the wrong way. More than likely you didn't realize that.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Education don't always mean one has common sense. I see a few of you in here that lack that. If a doctor tells you that you need to take a pill just because he's a doctor with a degree, do you take it?

I don't always agree with pills though. But I like your way of thinking.

Mac is Live wrote:

May or may not is case by case example. Some people deal with their problems better than others. I raised my two nieces and two nephews for a year. It was hard to get them to deal with their problems at first because their mother had been spanking them, but they do much better without it.

Nobody here wants to admit they are wrong. That's how people are in their adult lives. I was spanked. I don't spank because I know it's wrong.

If you spanked it doesn't mean you are a bad person it just means you are going about things the wrong way. More than likely you didn't realize that.

You got that part right. thanks for admitting that.

Mac is Live wrote:
What spanking leads to

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-11/opin … PM:OPINION

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/sh … index.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discip … your-child

Spanking is abuse. Please correct your actions with sensibility.

Oh for christ's sake, someone else who thinks they need the help of books and articles on how to raise/discipline kids. Pretty amazing on how well kids behaved 10 or 20 years ago without all the phony "help" books out there that some parents seem to need.

I raised two kids who had their asses tanned a few times and I can tell you it was NOT abuse, it was metered punishment that let them know that the behavior they were exhibiting was wrong. Did it work? You bet!

Trust me...you get a room full of kids together and I guarantee you that I can pick out the kids who get bribed to behave or get those idiotic time outs as opposed to the ones that get a spanking now and then. Like night and day. And that comes from raising my two children who are now grown and being around my five grandchildren for the last 6 years.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Irony. I can post some links that show spanking works and you'll still be in denial.

They won't be from respectable educated professionals.

Mac is Live wrote:

They won't be from respectable educated professionals.

You mean like 'Radical Mommy'?

Mac is Live wrote:

I don't always agree with pills though. But I like your way of thinking.

Here's the thing. People assume that if one is a professional, he or she has all the answers. Myths. Many are just book readers in school with a lack of knowledge. They're not some God on a throne with worldly knowledge. And the other factor is, each professional will have a different point of view on the same topic. Does that make them both right?

Mac is Live wrote:

Nobody here wants to admit they are wrong.

Including you. You've heard several experienced parents tell you why spanking works...for them....so admit you're wrong and we can move on.

Mac is Live wrote:

They won't be from respectable educated professionals.

Are you blind?
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17452786

Mac is Live wrote:
Nobody here wants to admit they are wrong.

It's not exactly a black and white, yes or no, right or wrong "issue" though.

Sure, the APA cautions parents against spanking (probably out of the better safe than sorry stance that they typically take with things) and many psychiatrists believe it to do more harm over-all than good. But, psychiatry is a soft science and there just hasn't been enough research on this so far to say definitively that one side is right and the other side is completely wrong.

Mac is Live wrote:

They won't be from respectable educated professionals.

See my last reply. Your reply is called an opinion. An emotional response doesn't help make your case.

Gianantonio wrote:
Why Spank Your Kids?

Why?  becasue I am the boss, I can beat the sh*t out them if I want to.  Kids need to be disciplined if they were not up to the level of expectations. 

And not talk back either.  It works in our family for generations. 

Any questions? 

Connor Photography wrote:

Why?  becasue I am the boss, I can beat the sh*t out them if I want to.  Kids need to be disciplined if they were not up to the level of expectations. 

And not talk back either.  It works in our family for generations. 

Any questions? 

Only one.

Is this sarcasm?

JessieLeigh wrote:

Are you crazy?Trolling? Or just bad at reading comprehension?

I should be more clear. I am not accusing her of being mentally ill, but that route is what I have seen ill people do.

My apologies for not being clear.

Children do not have the emotional maturity that adults do. When a child sees an adult react that way to something they've done they learn that:

it's okay to hit when someone is wrong.
It's okay to yell when someone is wrong.
You should get angry when some one is wrong.

All the time the child is angry for being hurt and doesn't learn anything from the parent because to them their trust is being broken.

j3_photo wrote:

Are you blind?
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st17452786

I stand corrected. I still disagree. I have to do a closer look at these "professional organizations." I haven't heard of them before.

But that is another problem with the internet. Some organizations clan claim articles and the studies actually never existed. The ones on my links do.

But I will look at them for consideration because that is fair.

Gianantonio wrote:
So, even given the above—to those who do or plan to spank their kids--Why would you choose to spank your kids?

Gianantonio,
What methods do you employ to discipline your children?

I have spanked my kids, and I may do so in the future. It is not something I like to do, nor do I plan on doing it. I have three fairly well rounded kids and I believe I do a pretty decent job as a parent. Am I flawless? Of course not, but I do not see a problem with spanking.

Mac is Live wrote:
I stand corrected. I still disagree. I have to do a closer look at these "professional organizations." I haven't heard of them before.

But that is another problem with the internet. Some organizations clan claim articles and the studies actually never existed. The ones on my links do.

But I will look at them for consideration because that is fair.

You still disagree without looking at them

ok

Good Egg Productions wrote:


Being a kid in the 70's.  We played outside.  We ate fruit snacks and crackers.  Dinner was what was put in front of us and we sat there until we ate it.  And we ate dinner at 6pm with the whole family.  EVERY NIGHT.  A McDonald's Happy Meal was a treat once a month or so.  We got spanked when we got into trouble.  But we did it anyway because it was worth it.



Being a kid today.  They stay inside.  They eat when and what they want and far too much of it.  They usually get to choose what they want for dinner and there's usually a TV on while they eat it.  There's little talking within the family at meal time, if they eat together at all because of scheduling conflicts.  McDonalds is 4 times a week because it's cheap and easy.  When they get into trouble, they go to time out.  Until they throw a big enough fit and then it's back to XBox to keep them quiet.  They don't know or learn consequence.  And the next generation will suffer even more from it.

The man makes sense

Mac is Live wrote:

All the time the child is angry for being hurt and doesn't learn anything from the parent because to them their trust is being broken.

I bet you got that from a book or article and not any real world experience.

I can tell you for a FACT that my kids were NOT angry after a good spanking, instead they were repentant and teary eyed and at the time they did not need to know WHY what they were doing was wrong only that it was wrong.

I remember giving my son a sound spanking after him playing near a light socket and after repeated attempts to reason with him that he might get hurt if he stuck his finger in that socket he continued to play near that socket so I yanked his pants down and spanked his butt. Guess what......he never, ever went near another light socket again.

Real world experience beats a book or article 100 times out of 100.

Isabel Allende wrote:
I was spanked and was a wild child.
I would stick my tongue out when they were done and run off.
Spanking made me more rebellious. It pissed me off. It made me not respect my parents. I was a brat.

I've also seen lots of other children who get spanked, but are still completely horrible spoiled brats.

There is more to discipline and parenting than just spanking or not spanking.
I wouldn't spank my own children, but that doesn't mean that they won't get in trouble for misbehaving and meet consequences.

I've found, in my personal experience, that kids respond much better to the consequence of having things they like (privileges) being taking away for an extended amount of time rather than to a 20 second spanking.

To each his own though. People should do what they feel works for them. I just want to teach my child to not handle his disagreements or problems with physical force and if that is how I handle my own problems with my children, I'd be a hypocrite which can be very confusing for children if you preach one thing and yet do another.

Children aren't adults, you obviously cannot treat them like adults, but they aren't idiots either. There are other ways to discipline that do not include physical force and that can still work.

I never understand why people get so upset with each other over different parenting choices. Everyone wants to be proved right. But, you won't know how well you did over-all until they are grown and there's a lot more to raising good adults than if you spank or don't. We're kind of over simplifying things here when it comes to what really makes a good parent.

You said it!  You were a rotten kid.

Most kids do respond to spanking or the threat of spanking.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Actually you're not trying to understand. It's hard to get an answer to a question when one has already come to the conclusion before it has been asked.

Exactly!!

eos3_300 wrote:

The man makes sense

Yep...agreed!

Mac is Live wrote:

I stand corrected. I still disagree. I have to do a closer look at these "professional organizations." I haven't heard of them before.

But that is another problem with the internet. Some organizations clan claim articles and the studies actually never existed. The ones on my links do.

But I will look at them for consideration because that is fair.

Here's the problem with studies.  When you design a sociological or psychological test, you begin with looking for a correlation.  Well, guess what.  Chances are, you'll find it.  Hell, even scientific studies that don't involve human behavior can be looked at two different ways to give two VERY different results.

Example:  Red wine contains heathful antioxidants that the body benefits from.
Or: Red wine contains alcohol which is a poison to the body and causes liver damage.

If you're publishing a paper, your research and results will support your hypothesis.

Mac is Live wrote:
Children do not have the emotional maturity that adults do. When a child sees an adult react that way to something they've done they learn that:

it's okay to hit when someone is wrong.
It's okay to yell when someone is wrong.
You should get angry when some one is wrong.

All the time the child is angry for being hurt and doesn't learn anything from the parent because to them their trust is being broken.

I am having difficulty following all of the comments in this thread--and the other. Please forgive me if I misunderstood this post.

It is not okay to hit someone when they are wrong.
It is not ok to yell at someone when they are wrong.
You can get angry when someone is wrong.

The problem with your statements (when applied to my reasoning for spankings) is I don't do it because I am angry. When I have spanked my children it was because they were displaying a behavior that I felt was severe enough that needed to be stopped immediately.

Mac is Live wrote:

May or may not is case by case example. Some people deal with their problems better than others. I raised my two nieces and two nephews for a year. It was hard to get them to deal with their problems at first because their mother had been spanking them, but they do much better without it.

Nobody here wants to admit they are wrong. That's how people are in their adult lives. I was spanked. I don't spank because I know it's wrong.

If you spanked it doesn't mean you are a bad person it just means you are going about things the wrong way. More than likely you didn't realize that.

In your opinion!

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
You said it!  You were a rotten kid.

Most kids do respond to spanking or the threat of spanking.

Most?
You have as little to back that up as the OP does to back up his claims.
My personal experience would disagree with your statement, but personal experience isn't something I can make an objective argument from that would persuade someone else, no one can make a true objective argument from personal experience or even a few soft science studies.

Which is why the whole argument on who is right and who is wrong when it comes to this is just silly. The majority of all anyone is going on in here is opinion and personal experience and neither side cares to change their mind. Am I the only one who realizes the futility?