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Photographer
Alan John Images
Posts: 810
Washington, District of Columbia, US


I recently discussed a nude photoshoot with an iinterested model, and she stated that she would bring a 'creative' person like a make-up artist or stylist with her. I told her that was fine. Now the model said that she plans to bring a "manager." I found this a bit odd, particularly since this model has very little experience and her portfolio isn't exactly professional looking.  Then she mentioned she actually has two managers, but would only bring one with her. I don't know how to interpret this unless it's a sign of naivete or being misguided. I don't really care. But I told her that if she'd like to have a 'creative' person to help with styling, that would be fine, but my role as a photographer isn't to accommodate a manager. The whole thing seems basically silly to me.  Is that fair of me to nix the manager aspect?
Oct 04 12 06:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ESR Photography
Posts: 408
Austin, Texas, US


Very little experience + No real portfolio to speak of + Not one but TWO managers = NEXT!
Oct 04 12 06:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,667
Houston, Texas, US


Maybe she's trying to get around the whole "escort" thing..

I'd be curios how she met these managers and how she feels they benefit her.
Yes, she sounds like she's a bit misguided.
Oct 04 12 06:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,249
Atlanta, Georgia, US


A manager is supposed to f*** up a models chances for working.  They should get in the way and act jealous of anyone who is looking at "their" model.  It's key they are possessive and controlling otherwise the model could become aware of their ability to function as a human.  They could start to want to think for themselves and may even realize they traded way down for that last boyfriend... err I mean manager.  When the manager isn't trying to control his model he has to make sure he is telling everyone about his model, how hot she is, how she is his, and did I mention how hot she is?

P.S. this is not the same as a momanger, totally different
Oct 04 12 06:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,886
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


You can nix any factors that distract from getting the right results.  Extra people hardly ever make any useful contribution to the shoot and can easily be a distraction or worse.  I usually choose not to work with models who need baby sitters.
Oct 04 12 07:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J Welborn
Posts: 2,552
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


She has a problem ---no reason to share it smile
Oct 04 12 07:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,857
Albany, New York, US


OP, in case you haven't guessed from the reactions, model managers aren't real welcome here on MM.

They're supposed to generate & find you work & guide you in the direction that you the model want to pursue. To often, those so-called managers limit ones job opportunities either by quoting ridicuous rates &/or not even forwarding those job requests &/or placing demands on your behalf that are just plain laughable.
Oct 04 12 08:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,318
Asheville, North Carolina, US


J  Welborn wrote:
She has a problem ---no reason to share it smile

+1
Stated well and concisely.

Oct 04 12 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,656
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


The "Next" attitude is fine - if there's a "Next" model who is just as good.  If the model has something you want, but comes with baggage, then you have to decide if the baggage is worth the hassle.  In many cases, it is.

As noted in one of the more thoughtful replies above, maybe the model is scared and wants to bring a friend for reassurance, and, while the "Next" knee-jerkers are bound to jump in, maybe you could discuss this aspect with the model, either with a view to getting her to change her mind, or to finding a way you can accomodate her wishes.

It's odd that she claims to have two managers - they both can't be jealous boyfriends!
Oct 04 12 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,460
Brooklyn, New York, US


Run Forest Run!!!!
Pass on this one shes got more baggage than a cargo ship
Oct 04 12 08:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5,311
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


Alan John Images wrote:
I recently discussed a nude photoshoot with an iinterested model, and she stated that she would bring a 'creative' person like a make-up artist or stylist with her. I told her that was fine. Now the model said that she plans to bring a "manager." I found this a bit odd, particularly since this model has very little experience and her portfolio isn't exactly professional looking.  Then she mentioned she actually has two managers, but would only bring one with her. I don't know how to interpret this unless it's a sign of naivete or being misguided. I don't really care. But I told her that if she'd like to have a 'creative' person to help with styling, that would be fine, but my role as a photographer isn't to accommodate a manager. The whole thing seems basically silly to me.  Is that fair of me to nix the manager aspect?

Tell her that her manager helped her clicked on the "NEXT" button..

Oct 04 12 08:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


"Wow...TWO managers? You must be really really good!"

That might work if the person on the other end of the discussion with the model is five years old.

What is a model manager? A term her possessive boyfriend has demanded she use to make him feel better about the fact that he's just another jealous boyfriend with no purpose who has an issue with his girlfriend doing photo shoots with men he doesn't approve. It also feeds into her true Diva nature so it's a win-win for the dysfunctional couple.

Doesn't "manager" sound much better than Svengali, Sluggo or Jealous Douche?
Oct 04 12 09:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,855
Portland, Oregon, US


Alan John Images wrote:
I recently discussed a nude photoshoot with an iinterested model, and she stated that she would bring a 'creative' person like a make-up artist or stylist with her. I told her that was fine. Now the model said that she plans to bring a "manager." I found this a bit odd, particularly since this model has very little experience and her portfolio isn't exactly professional looking.  Then she mentioned she actually has two managers, but would only bring one with her. I don't know how to interpret this unless it's a sign of naivete or being misguided. I don't really care. But I told her that if she'd like to have a 'creative' person to help with styling, that would be fine, but my role as a photographer isn't to accommodate a manager. The whole thing seems basically silly to me.  Is that fair of me to nix the manager aspect?

Some possible responsibilities for a manager, especially an on-site manager:

...  Makes sure the model remembers the scheduled appointment.
...  Makes sure the model shows up on time.
...  Makes sure the model arrives with the appropriate wardrobe, accessories, etc.
...  Makes sure the model has a hair dryer, brush, etc.
...  Makes the run to the store for cigarettes.
...  Reviews the model's contracts & model releases.
...  Negotiates the model's compensation.
...  Manages the images, putting the best ones in the model's portfolio.
...  and so forth.

My bottom line:  Having a manager that the model trusts can help make an inexperienced & disorganized model more comfortable & reliable.  Whether the model wants a manager is the model's business & not yours.  Your only concern is whether you want the model to work on site with an escort.

Or, in summary:  You can say "yes"; you can say "no"; but you probably shouldn't ask "why".

Oct 04 12 09:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sungoddess Studios
Posts: 5,169
Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, US


ESR Photography wrote:
Very little experience + No real portfolio to speak of + Not one but TWO managers = NEXT!

+1,000,000

Oct 04 12 09:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MDWM
Posts: 534
Los Angeles, California, US


First, she wants to bring a creative person. Now she wants to bring one of her 2 managers. This girl is full of it.....Run as fast as you can.
Oct 04 12 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
annie lomowitz
Posts: 257
WOODY CREEK, Colorado, US


Alan John Images wrote:
Is that fair of me to nix the manager aspect?

seems fair to me.

annie

Oct 04 12 09:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1,335
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


call police! smile
sounds like a pimp (oops, sorry, a "manager") is in the total control of her life, and she does not have any informative decision or choices to make up her own mind.
Oct 04 12 09:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,503
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Scrap the shoot.
Oct 04 12 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ColourFool
Posts: 1,649
Breda, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Some possible responsibilities for a manager, especially an on-site manager:

...  Makes sure the model remembers the scheduled appointment.
...  Makes sure the model shows up on time.
...  Makes sure the model arrives with the appropriate wardrobe, accessories, etc.
...  Makes sure the model has a hair dryer, brush, etc.
...  Makes the run to the store for cigarettes.
...  Reviews the model's contracts & model releases.
...  Negotiates the model's compensation.
...  Manages the images, putting the best ones in the model's portfolio.
...  and so forth.

My bottom line:  Having a manager that the model trusts can help make an inexperienced & disorganized model more comfortable & reliable.  Whether the model wants a manager is the model's business & not yours.  Your only concern is whether you want the model to work on site with an escort.

Or, in summary:  You can say "yes"; you can say "no"; but you probably shouldn't ask "why".

so .. why does the manager only come in after the appointment was made?

edit: oh .. right, I forgot. I should read these threads within the confines of MM practices.Sorry, move along people smile

Oct 04 12 10:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2,241
Toledo, Ohio, US


I once did a shoot with two models from omp (OMP allows managers) who had a manager (same manager, actually a couple working together).  They arrived with their manager's release for me to sign (not previously discussed), but it was only a TF shoot, they both had a good look and they were the ones that had access to a very cool location, so I signed it.  I also had them sign my standard model release, even though there were several conflicts between the two documents.  The models didn't know much about releases.  They had just been given the form to have signed.

The models had paid a fee to the manager to help direct them and find them work.  Both were fairly new to modeling.  I did have a couple of email contacts directly with the managers prior to the shoot.  There was originally going to be 4 models there (all same manager), but one was sick and one had some other conflict that I don't remember.

It turned out that the photos and the manager's release never made it back to the managers, as they had to leave town quickly due to the police closing in on them for some unrelated illegal activity.

So it turned out that we effectively worked off of my standard release and all 3 of us were very happy with the shoot

When browsing omp, I have noticed that a fair percentage of models from the Youngstown area have managers.  I'm guessing that there are a couple of managers there that actively recruit beginning models and use omp to promote them.
Oct 04 12 10:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Philipe
Posts: 5,189
Pomona, California, US


What does her manager manage?
Wannabees are a pisser...
Oct 04 12 11:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 8,425
Los Angeles, California, US


Tell her that if she wishes to bring a makeup artist or hair stylist that would be acceptable, but you don't allow unnecessary people or audiences on your shoot because it's too distracting.

If she doesn't agree to that, politely decline to shoot with her.

KM
Oct 04 12 11:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JR in Texas
Posts: 317
Tulia, Texas, US


"Manager" is usually a red flag for me. Often they are inexperienced would-be agents. And that's the good ones. Other times it's just a word for domineering boyfriend. omp used to encourage them, which is one reason I'm no longer active there.

If your state licenses agencies there's a good chance a "manager" falls within the requirements. Usually it covers anyone who takes money in return for attempting to find work for a model. If that's the case you can ask for their license number.
Oct 04 12 11:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


I had a (male) model here want to shoot with me. Begged to bring along another male model. Okay, could be some hot stuff there, I wasn't thrilled but said fine. Whenever that happens it seems the quality falls considerably.  Then he said he had to bring *their* "manager", as (with no portfolio at all yet) they weren't allowed to go ANYwhere without her.

Uh, lol. I told him 4 on set's a crowd and I wasn't comfortable with that.

Apparently no one else was either, as his profile is gone.
Oct 04 12 11:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
2020 Photography
Posts: 440
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


OP, as mentioned previously here not only are Model Managers not liked or welcome here on Model Mayhem they are not allowed.  If this person is on Model Mayhem they are breaking the site rules and should be reported via CAM.
Oct 04 12 11:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lost Viking
Posts: 1,326
Ashville, Ohio, US


Ask what I always ask if a llama wants to bring a "professional" with them; "What are their qualifications?"
Oct 04 12 11:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
HOTTIE SHOTS
Posts: 5,949
Memphis, Tennessee, US


There is a guy in my area who charges models $35 a month to be their "manager."  He then takes over their MM port and doesn't let them read their messages or respond to them.  Which is against the rules here on MM, as I understand them.  I only know this because a model who turned him down told me his terms.

The other "managers" I have encountered were all controlling BF's or controlling photographers.  My policy is to not ever deal with managers.

However I did shoot a model a few years ago who had a manager, he was professional and helpful.  I asked her why she had a manager and she told me she had a fulltime job and was carrying a full night time college class load and just did not have time to schedule things.  That made sense. 

So one out of 25 might be real managers for a real reason.  But I still don't deal with them as a rule.
Oct 04 12 11:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
howard r
Posts: 470
Los Angeles, California, US


my experience is that a manager in these cases is usually just a wanna-be player who tries to sign up as many naive models as he can. the model is not in on it. they think they just took the first step towards making it - but it's more a case of the fox guarding the henhouse.

btw - whenever i've tried googling these "managers", nothing has ever come up - which is not a good sign. maybe tell her you'll be happy to say hello to him before the shoot but after that it's a closed set. (although he will probably tell her that that's a reason not to shoot with you, and she'll take his word over yours).

or you could say you only work with legit managers so please have them send their business info and website.
Oct 04 12 11:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,855
Portland, Oregon, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Some possible responsibilities for a manager, especially an on-site manager:

...  Makes sure the model remembers the scheduled appointment.
...  Makes sure the model shows up on time.
...  Makes sure the model arrives with the appropriate wardrobe, accessories, etc.
...  Makes sure the model has a hair dryer, brush, etc.
...  Makes the run to the store for cigarettes.
...  Reviews the model's contracts & model releases.
...  Negotiates the model's compensation.
...  Manages the images, putting the best ones in the model's portfolio.
...  and so forth.

My bottom line:  Having a manager that the model trusts can help make an inexperienced & disorganized model more comfortable & reliable.  Whether the model wants a manager is the model's business & not yours.  Your only concern is whether you want the model to work on site with an escort.

Or, in summary:  You can say "yes"; you can say "no"; but you probably shouldn't ask "why".
ColourFool wrote:
so .. why does the manager only come in after the appointment was made?

edit: oh .. right, I forgot. I should read these threads within the confines of MM practices.Sorry, move along people smile

I'll add some highlights to my original post.  These are activities that occur after the appointment is made.

You don't exactly know when the manager comes in, do you? 

I don't understand the "confines of MM practices" remark, but it kinda sounds snarky.

Oct 04 12 11:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blue Ash Film Group
Posts: 9,314
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


I wonder how each sluggo (oops, I meant "manager") feel about sharing her with the other.
Oct 04 12 11:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


If a model won't shoot without a make-up artist, stylist or another model, then obviously photographers shouldn't take this personally, perhaps the model is just aiming to get the best possible use of her time and the best pictures.

If a model starts talking about a "manager", in my experience this is pretty bad news for the photographer. I'm willing to learn and willing to teach but both are fairly impossible with the "manager" scenario, it's an uphill struggle to "fix" people's work ethic, attitude and coachability.

I employ models not managers. I like to speak to models not managers, is this unreasonable?

Bands, performers etc, it's slightly different, managers are either the client or perform some actual use during the production.

The problem is models advertise, then suddenly announce a manager. This isn't business. A real manager will do the advertising and if people feel they would prefer to use agencies or model management, then they will. Sometimes it is the case, I prefer to employ someone I know could lose their contract if they don't turn up.
Oct 04 12 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11,752
Huntington, West Virginia, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
OP, in case you haven't guessed from the reactions, model managers aren't real welcome here on MM.

And for a very good reason I might add

Oct 04 12 06:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,262
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Nude shoot + "manager" = jealous BF or insecure model; either way, it will impair the images.
Oct 07 12 03:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,488
Houston, Texas, US


Managers are like travel agents. They were more necessary in the pre-Internet days but today are often unnecessay middlemen.
Oct 07 12 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,615
San Francisco, California, US


I chuckle when I read these threads. To the OP, just turn and walk away.  It is nonsense.  You are talking about a sluggo, not a manager.

That said, it is clear that few here understand what a legitimate manager does.  The better ones, are some of the most powerful people in the business, far more powerful than agents.  Some will take on a newbie, most will not.  In Hollywood, they say that a "good manger is worth his weight in gold."

Alas, this is the net and not the mainstream.  Managers serve no place here.
Oct 07 12 04:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,838
Delphos, Ohio, US


Walk away... quickly. In fact, running might not be a bad idea.

As has already been mentioned, you're going to wind up dealing with a sluggo. Most likely, it's going to be her husband (or boyfriend) and one of her other "friends".

Hell, she might be bringing along two people to better help haul your gear out of your studio while you're unconscious on the floor.
Oct 07 12 04:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Malloch Caldwell
Posts: 2,553
Hastings, England, United Kingdom


Model managers do as they always do. Nothing of any consequence other than destroy any chance of the llama being generally accepted.
Oct 07 12 04:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SitronStudio
Posts: 1,058
Venice, Florida, US


The day before a shoot I had a new model mention they would be arriving with their manager and managers assistant. It was a 2 hour drive to my studio. I cancelled the shoot. I told them if they had asked if it was ok to bring a friend since it was a long drive, would have said ok. Since they were already playing drama queen, I had no interest in working with them.
Oct 07 12 04:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Flex Photography
Posts: 5,084
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada


"What is a model's 'manager' supposed to do?"  Butt out & get lost!
Oct 07 12 02:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K_G
Posts: 2,930
Detroit, Michigan, US


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Tell her that if she wishes to bring a makeup artist or hair stylist that would be acceptable, but you don't allow unnecessary people or audiences on your shoot because it's too distracting.

If she doesn't agree to that, politely decline to shoot with her.

KM

This.

As a model myself, I have never had a "model Manager", let alone have any kind of person escort me to a shoot. The only people that belong at a shoot are MUAs, stylists, or photography assistants.

And if the model is communicating directly with you, then what the heck is the "manager" for?

Oct 07 12 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
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