Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1755
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
DiavoloRosso wrote:
What's to say that the porn site didn't just take them off the photographer's site with out his permission and use them? Porn sites do that fairly often. +1
Photographer
T Brown
Posts: 2460
Traverse City, Michigan, US
valley photomaster wrote:
My advice is : Get it on ink and signed, that way you are covered as a model, verbal agreements are difficult to make them stick in a court of law, I'd rather spend 30 minutes doing paper work than spend months back and forth with misunderstandings on any agreement.
BTW: If the guy did a TFP and sold the pictures you are entitled to compensation! Sorry she's not entitled to anything other than what was agreed to in the release, if she agreed to smoothies thats all she gets...
But yes make sure you read and understand any form before you sign, if not in agreement renegotiate, if not happy after that move on.
You don't have to agree to any terms you don't like and don't be afraid to ask questions 
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 9421
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Why would I want to spent the time, energy, and resources to shoot someone, provide them with hundreds of dollars worth of images and not expect to use those images on my pay site???
KM
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1755
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Why would I want to spent the time, energy, and resources to shoot someone, provide them with hundreds of dollars worth of images and not expect to use those images on my pay site???
KM ^^
Next time, read the release more carefully and dont be afraid to request minor changes or walk away if you dont like the terms.
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 9421
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Jordan Bunniie wrote:
^^
Next time, read the release more carefully and dont be afraid to request minor changes or walk away if you dont like the terms. There is nothing in my release that addresses that (nor should there be). Those issues should be addressed in a usage agreement before the shoot begins.
A usage agreement and a model release are two separate and different things.
KM
Photographer
Woven Thought
Posts: 329
Petersburg, Virginia, US
valley photomaster wrote:
BTW: If the guy did a TFP and sold the pictures you are entitled to compensation! Baloney. She is not.
Photographer
MesmerEyes Photography
Posts: 3102
Galveston, Texas, US
ChiMo wrote:
Who the heck pays to see implied nudes? Implied nudes can be used as teasers. However, it sounds like the photographer in question has a paid site for his art and is getting money from porn sites to advertise on his site. For some people the difference between artistic nude and porn is either a thin line or there is no difference to them at all.
Photographer
MesmerEyes Photography
Posts: 3102
Galveston, Texas, US
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
There is nothing in my release that addresses that (nor should there be). Those issues should be addressed in a usage agreement before the shoot begins.
A usage agreement and a model release are two separate and different things.
KM This!
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 4810
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
ChiMo wrote:
Who the heck pays to see implied nudes? exactly
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 4810
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
AshleyD_Model wrote:
when I google to look for my photos I find they are on a heck of a lot of websites with hardcore porn ads I googled "AshleyD", "AshleyD_Model", and "AshleyD Model" without finding images of you, either clothed or unclothed.
Where did I go wrong?
Photographer
Machine
Posts: 38
Seattle, Washington, US
You can use services like TinEye or Google Image Search to do a "reverse image search" and figure out where your photos end up.
It's a very good bet that the photographer isn't making very much or any money off his paid site with your photos. The porn industry is struggling to make money... so I can't imagine someone peddling implied and art nudes is raking it in.
If you're part of an image... either a photographer, model, stylest, MUA... you're just going to have to assume that some photos are going to end up someplace on the internet that's not going to make you happy and you're probably not going to make any money from it. There are only two ways to deal with it... accept it and hope that the added exposure leads to paid job at some point... or don't put any images on the internet anymore.
If you're worried about being compensated... switch to paid shoots only and see how well that works for you.
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2225
Rochester, New York, US
if it's a "porn" site rather than a standard portfolio site, it would've been *nice* if the photographer had been explicit about it
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
AshleyD_Model wrote:
Has this happened to any of you? I did an implied nude TFP shoot months ago and suddenly friends are texting me freaking out that they saw me on a paid porn site! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr I was told by the photographer some of the photos would be used on his site so I assumed he meant a professional portfolio site not a paid site!
If this happened to you what was the name of the website?
Thnx My thoughts are these: the fact that is was a trade or paid shoot is of little importance. If you signed a release allowing the photographer to use the images as he sees fit, that's his right.
My next question is to know exactly the 'porn site' that your pics are on. Not the exact site, as that would be outing, but is it an actual XXX site? Is it a personals site?
Also, you evidently aren't fully nude in the pics, as you said it was an implied nude shoot, so I doubt that anyone would think you were one of the actresses, if indeed it is that type of site.
Also, you have friends (plural) that see you on the internet - do your friends cruise porn sites regularly or is it actually not an XXX site.
Lastly, did you check references on the photographer before you worked with him?
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
AshleyD_Model wrote:
Do you know any guys who don't visit those sites? Yes, my boyfriend, his friends, my brother, most of his friends, my step father, men who get the real thing daily...
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
valley photomaster wrote:
BTW: If the guy did a TFP and sold the pictures you are entitled to compensation! wrong.
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
AshleyD_Model wrote:
Do you know any guys who don't visit those sites? I do believe we're getting closer to the truth here.........
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18909
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US
Amazing how many models undertake even a part time "hobby" career as a model without even the most basic understanding of a model release and how to protect themselves from the photos showing up where they do not want them to, something that is a real possibility with the net. OTOH they make sure they bring someone for their "protection" for the much more remote possibility.
Photographer
Grit City Pinups
Posts: 270
Seattle, Washington, US
If it makes you feel any better, he's probably going to make lots of money from them.
Photographer
annie lomowitz
Posts: 257
WOODY CREEK, Colorado, US
AshleyD_Model wrote:
I signed a model release form. That's not even my issue with it. I should have been told about this website and if he had told me about it then I would have definitely demanded to be paid or I would have said no don't want to be on a paid site and made him put that in the release. talk to attorney... bring her the release + emails etc...
annie.
-- remember contracts can be pierced.
Photographer
Imageri by Tim Davis
Posts: 1431
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
annie lomowitz wrote:
talk to attorney... bring her the release + emails etc...
annie.
-- remember contracts can be pierced. Good luck with that...
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28657
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Nico Simon Princely wrote:
If it's one of those girlfriend sites they probably stole it. Not only that I have seen people on Fiverr selling images they have stolen from around the web. hmmmm... Very interesting site. My wheels are turning.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
AJScalzitti wrote:
She was compensated, she got images. If you notice the declaration of independence mentioned life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness - people are not automatically entitled to much else. And now-a-days, you are lucky if you are permitted any of the above.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
John Malloch Caldwell wrote:
Check the release and see if it contains the words "will not be used in a way that will bring the model's reputation into disrepute"
If it does and you feel the usage has. Then you just may have something to work with. Always best to take proper legal advice if you feel it affects your reputation. Any release that uses that language is likely to be useless.
The interpretation possibilities boggle the mind.
"I look fat, so my reputation is in disrepute".
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Why would I want to spent the time, energy, and resources to shoot someone, provide them with hundreds of dollars worth of images and not expect to use those images on my pay site???
KM +1
Model
Lana Belle
Posts: 51
Washington, District of Columbia, US
howard r wrote:
very possibly stolen from the photographer as well. i certainly don't think porn sites are writing big checks for implied pictures.
and you can always come back to your friends with "and why exactly were you on paid porn sites?". that's always good for a laugh.
Model
Lana Belle
Posts: 51
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Compensated with images? Ooh I have an idea let's pay the models with bubblegum next!! ( sarcasm)!
Photographer
Tony KnightHawk Studios
Posts: 1900
Fort Myers Beach, Florida, US
Lana Belle wrote:
Compensated with images? Ooh I have an idea let's pay the models with bubblegum next!! ( sarcasm)! Are you saying the photographers time to produce the images are equal to bubblegum?
Wow what a really self destructive thing to say. Why would photographer want to work with someone who thinks so little of their effort.
Here is an idea how about paying a photographer so you can have a decent image. Same as you expect to get paid for modeling.
Model
Kitty LaRose
Posts: 12735
Kansas City, Missouri, US
It's happened to me before. I could do nothing because of the sort of release I signed--but you can be sure I'll never work with said photographer again and give a negative reference when I'm asked about my shooting experience.
Model
Lola Magdalene Scott
Posts: 79
Lexington, Kentucky, US
Never take pictures that you would be embarrassed for friends or family to see....and always be clear on what they will be used for, if you are unsure, ask...just as you are using them to promote yourself, the photographer will be using them to promote him/her self. It would be a little naive to think they will not be posted somewhere. Both sides have time and material involved....so they will not just sit on the computer hard drive for the cat to watch.......
Photographer
Tony KnightHawk Studios
Posts: 1900
Fort Myers Beach, Florida, US
Kitty LaRose wrote:
It's happened to me before. I could do nothing because of the sort of release I signed--but you can be sure I'll never work with said photographer again and give a negative reference when I'm asked about my shooting experience. So your shooting experience was negative only AFTER the images were posted to a website you didn't like?
Why not simply tell the photographer you don't want your images on any adult sites? That way before the shoot you both can agree to work together or not. How about next time read the release before you sign it. You can also write in your terms and have both parties initial the addition. That way you won't have to blame the big bad photographer for your want of control of where the images get posted.
Photographer
Tony KnightHawk Studios
Posts: 1900
Fort Myers Beach, Florida, US
Lola Magdalene Scott wrote:
Never take pictures that you would be embarrassed for friends or family to see....and always be clear on what they will be used for, if you are unsure, ask...just as you are using them to promote yourself, the photographer will be using them to promote him/her self. It would be a little naive to think they will not be posted somewhere. Both sides have time and material involved....so they will not just sit on the computer hard drive for the cat to watch....... +1
wow all those smarts and common sense after only 5 posts.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
AshleyD_Model wrote:
I signed a model release form. That's not even my issue with it. I should have been told about this website and if he had told me about it then I would have definitely demanded to be paid or I would have said no don't want to be on a paid site and made him put that in the release. I'm sorry that you are upset ... and I understand why, but it's more a lesson learned because you don't have any legal recourse. This forum is not the place to determine that because it depends on what the release says that yoiu signed. Talk with the photographer about this, and ask WHY your images are ending up on ads for porn sites. Maybe he doesn't know about all that?
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Lola Magdalene Scott wrote:
Never take pictures that you would be embarrassed for friends or family to see....and always be clear on what they will be used for, if you are unsure, ask...just as you are using them to promote yourself, the photographer will be using them to promote him/her self. It would be a little naive to think they will not be posted somewhere. Both sides have time and material involved....so they will not just sit on the computer hard drive for the cat to watch....... This! Communication is important. It can start with asking questions ... and reading the release!
Model
Evie Wolfe
Posts: 1201
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Have you tried talking to the photographer about this? It might seem an obvious thing to say, but whenever something upsets me I always jump to the worst conclusion and panic, so I've found it is best to start from square one.
Maybe you could send him a polite and friendly message explaining that you've had messages from friends about your involvement in porn, which led you to his site, and that you are uncomfortable with the connections being made to you because of his site's content. You may want to mention that you can't remember him mentioning he was intending to use the images in such a manner, and that it would have altered your decision to pose for the photographs if you had. Make sure you say you are aware that he has the rights to the photographs and respect that, and then ask if he has any ideas (don't demand the removal of the images, I'm not a lawyer but I don't think you have the right to do that) that may help smooth the situation out for both of you.
It would have been nice if he had made you aware his website had connections to porn and your images would be posted there, but things don't always work out the way we'd like and this may be a battle you can't win. If he takes your message badly or ignores you, you may just have to chalk it up to experience and move on.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Kitty LaRose wrote:
It's happened to me before. I could do nothing because of the sort of release I signed--but you can be sure I'll never work with said photographer again and give a negative reference when I'm asked about my shooting experience. Did you talk with the photographer about it before deciding that it was a "negative experience?" I wish some models and photographers would at least try to communicate their issues with each other before deciding that the other party was wrong and posting "negative references" about the other person. That is pretty much why "outing" is not allowed on the forums.
Photographer
Evil Laugh Photography
Posts: 110
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
ChiMo wrote:
Who the heck pays to see implied nudes? Zivity subscribers apparently...
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Lana Belle wrote:
Compensated with images? Ooh I have an idea let's pay the models with bubblegum next!! ( sarcasm)! I think you'll find well over half the shootings organised through MM turn out to be TFP - or 'compensated with images' shoots...
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
1. did you sign a release?
2. if so, did you get compensated with photos?
Unfortunately this happens with some photographers. Check references up front before doing TF. I'd suggest sending a nice, but firm email to the photographer in question linking to the site and ask him to have the image(s) taken down. It might be totally inappropriate, depending on the site, the arrangements with the model, and whether the photographer even put it there. But demands don't tend to go far.
I put all finished images on Flickr, and a fair number on MM, Model Insider, Zivity, and starting recently, Tumbler. To various people, all of those are porn sites.
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
Angela Perez wrote:
Even if she did I think is shady of the photographer to not say her likeness was going to be associated with porn or that it would be for a porn site. If he would have been upfront she could have made a decision to decline the shoot.
As a model I would suggest always asking what the Usage of the photos is and making sure you are only releasing your likeness to the specified usage. Read the release before you sign. She says they were on his site, which doesn't even, according to her, have nudity, let alone porn.
AshleyD_Model wrote:
No they weren't stolen off the photographer's website. The paid site that I never knew existed is all his photography so it's not one of those websites where they steal photos.
There's no nudity that I can see on it but when I google to look for my photos I find they are on a heck of a lot of websites with hardcore porn ads and links and why people are jumping to conclusions I am involved in porn. Apparently, the page has "porn ads."
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
RKD Photographic wrote:
don't want to be on a paid site and made him put that in the release.
I'm afraid that's all there is to it - you signed a release - he can do with them pretty much as he pleases.
Next time insist on a Usage Agreement as well as you signing a release - without a usage agreement that lays down who can do what with the images and where, a release simply allows him to do anything he wants with them. The Usage agreement gives the MODEL rights. The model release gives the photographer rights. And, many, many, photographers aren't going to do a trade shoot without a release that allows them at least a chance of making some money.
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