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Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Bunnierabbits wrote:
fashion nudes ?

It's simple really, nudes or partial/implied nudes shot with a fashion aesthetic.

Dec 12 12 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Gina Dee
Posts: 313
BRONX, New York, US


I'm still new here but it still surprises me that this is a big deal.
Dec 12 12 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


intense puppy wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic, but nudes = no clothes.

Your point?

Fashion photography is about aspiration not about clothes. 

It's a common misconception that the product has to be the key element in the shot - that's just catalogue photography - often the most successful shots are where the product is merely incidental. That's why you can shoot a nude model and use the photo to sell Wellington boots if you do it right.

Sex sells. That's not to say that all nudes are sexy, but generally speaking they get more attention than non-nudes, especially if done well.

However, it's a challenge. Many photographers shoot nudes but only a few do it well. It's hard to shoot nudes well. Fashion nudes, particularly, I find interesting as there are challenges on many levels - getting the photo to look "fashiony" even with few clothes, making sure it doesn't look like glamour or cheap titillation, making it appeal to both men and women...

I was quite concerned when I started shooting fashion nudes, as I was aware that the bar of acceptability is set somewhat higher for nude work than for clothed. Shooting nudes that models (particularly fashion models) will like is a lot harder than shooting glamour nudes that the guys at the bar will like.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Dec 12 12 08:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
It's a common misconception that the product has to be the key element in the shot - that's just catalogue photography - often the most successful shots are where the product is merely incidental. That's why you can shoot a nude model and use the photo to sell Wellington boots if you do it right.

Maybe, maybe not.

Dec 12 12 08:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


I think all photography is about desire.

Nude, clothed, whatever. It's about making an emotional connection.

The more you label the more you restrict.
Dec 12 12 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


intense puppy wrote:
Maybe, maybe not.

I think the number of fashion nudes in magazines like Vogue Italia etc. would indicate that it's a successful tactic when done properly.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Dec 12 12 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MB JenB
Posts: 2,980
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

I would say your avatar is glamour.

I agree that the avi is glamour.

Dec 12 12 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Nude, clothed, whatever. It's about making an emotional connection.

+1

Make your viewer want to be the model and you've taken the most important step to selling her something.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Dec 12 12 08:34 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MB JenB
Posts: 2,980
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
...That's why you can shoot a nude model and use the photo to sell Wellington boots if you do it right.

Sex sells. That's not to say that all nudes are sexy, but generally speaking they get more attention than non-nudes, especially if done well.

...Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

...Make your viewer want to be the model and you've taken the most important step to selling her something.

Yes, sex appeal, magneticism, youth, beauty, anything interesting and a dream...sell. smile I agree it is all performance and fantasy mixed in with some very fun creativity and art. This is why I love it!
Jen

Dec 12 12 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,268
Orlando, Florida, US


If yer gonna be nekid when we shoot, then I'm gonna keep my eyes closed  .  .  .  that way it will be conceptional art  .  .  .  wink

SOS
Dec 12 12 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


MyrnaByrna wrote:

Yes, sex appeal, magneticism, youth, beauty, anything interesting and a dream...sell. smile I agree it is all performance and fantasy mixed in with some very fun creativity and art. This is why I love it!
Jen

Yup.

What's that old sales expression?

'Don't just sell the steak - sell the sizzle!'

A good sales image sells the emotion. The 'want'.

Dec 12 12 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Model
I-dont-know-I-forgot
Posts: 134
London, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Bunnierabbits wrote:
fashion nudes ?

It's simple really, nudes or partial/implied nudes shot with a fashion aesthetic.

Dec 13 12 04:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
I-dont-know-I-forgot
Posts: 134
London, England, United Kingdom


Gina Redd wrote:
I'm still new here but it still surprises me that this is a big deal.

it's not a big deal ,

sometimes it's just confusing and this is online forum most stuff
here is not a big deal for real .


ut im not sure it's hard to explain without linking to specific
shots or portfolios which you can't do on here anyway .

Dec 13 12 04:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
I-dont-know-I-forgot
Posts: 134
London, England, United Kingdom


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
I think all photography is about desire.

Nude, clothed, whatever. It's about making an emotional connection.

The more you label the more you restrict.

yea i like this ^^ but sometimes people do so
just wondering smile

Dec 13 12 04:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
I-dont-know-I-forgot
Posts: 134
London, England, United Kingdom


ok so

this would be fashion pic http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdj6x … o1_500.jpg

and second be an art nude

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md8o9 … o1_500.jpg

not best example but i found it quickly ???
Dec 13 12 04:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravoscape
Posts: 259
Frederick, Maryland, US


My opinion..they are both art. The first could be fashion...but I lean more to art.
Dec 13 12 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2,218
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


intense puppy wrote:

Sorry if this has been asked before but - how exactly does that work?

I mean, fashion nudes. Like dry water. Or invisible yellow.
?????????

fash·ion
n.
1. The prevailing style or custom, as in dress or behavior: out of fashion.
2. Something, such as a garment, that is in the current mode: a swimsuit that is the latest fashion.
3. The style characteristic of the social elite: a man of fashion.
4.
a. Manner or mode; way: Set the table in this fashion.
b. A personal, often idiosyncratic manner: played the violin in his own curious fashion.
5. Kind or variety; sort: people of all fashions.
6. Shape or form; configuration.

Dec 13 12 08:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


So what would you say the nude images in my portfolio are? (namely the guy sitting on the table and the guy in leather cut off)
Dec 13 12 11:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dane Halo
Posts: 1,127
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Bunnierabbits wrote:
ok so what exactly is the difference

Art nude's , Glamour nude's , fashion nudes ?

and where does it just become naked pictures with
no genre ?

does it have to have a genre guess not  !

BUT.....

how exactly Do you decide  & say this is an
"art nude" ect ect

It varies from person to person, but generally:

Art nude: This image is 18+ or http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101031/21/4cce431d0f4ae_m.jpg
Art nudes are supposed to be about form and flow.  Woman's body becomes part of the scenery or IS the scenery.  No one looks at the Venus di Milo and says she's sexy - it's artistic and beautiful.  Think of coffee table black and white books.

Fashion nude: This image is 18+
This one is more about angles and shadow.  Not generally meant to be sexy.  Think Vogue.

Glamour nude: This image is 18+
(sorta)
I don't really do glam nudes, but the bottom one is sort of glammy.  This one is about enticing the viewer.  Words that come to mind are 'sexy' and 'hot'.  Think Playboy.

Dec 14 12 12:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mickle Design Werks
Posts: 5,949
Washington, District of Columbia, US


I hate genres.

I think what people try to use genres what they're really trying to do is to establish some way to control judge others. it really serves more to the purpose of the person who is doing the judging and characterization than the work that's being judge.

One person's art nude is another person's glamour nude and one person's glamour nude is another's fashion nude and one persons fashion nude is another's art nude. It's all subjective and requires us to submit to the subjectivity of the authority of the person judging. So it's all relative to the weight of that person judgment. In sum it all bull shit.

Of course the problem that you always run into when trying to establish these categories is that something comes along that causes people to mischaracterize what's being represented. Take Mosh for example. Is she pin-up? Is she glamour? Is she alt fashion? Perhaps she's a combination of all of these things. She just does not fit neatly in just one box.
Dec 14 12 07:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,490
Houston, Texas, US


Stanley L Moore wrote:
Simple..... if it is in B&W it's ART.
If it's in full color it's PORN.
LOL.

If the model looks away and/or is far, it's Art.

If they look at the camera and/or is close, it's Glamour.

"Art nude" is overly-applied and often meant to suggest "Tasteful nude".

I am as guilty as any as far as doing this, and much of my work that I apply the label to is actually "Glamour nude".

"Fashion nude" seems like an oxymoron unless it involves shoes.

Dec 14 12 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orcatek Photography
Posts: 1,686
Tempe, Arizona, US


Any nude can be an art nude.

Glamour nudes tend to be "sexy" nudes.

Fashion nudes, are nude models showing off a fashion product.  Not used very much in the USA, but more often in parts of the world where people have more sense about nudity.
Dec 14 12 07:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravoscape
Posts: 259
Frederick, Maryland, US


OPs profile is gone? Maybe I got blocked lol
Dec 14 12 08:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
I-dont-know-I-forgot
Posts: 134
London, England, United Kingdom


Bravoscape wrote:
OPs profile is gone? Maybe I got blocked lol

im still here and no your not ??:s

Dec 14 12 10:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17,653
LAKE PEEKSKILL, New York, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
erotic nude makes you think about sex..

porn, shows you sex...

I like this distinction.

Dec 14 12 03:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
aquarelle
Posts: 1,907
Chicago, Illinois, US


Erotica often leaves you wanting to see more.....

Porn often leaves you wishing you'd seen less. smile
Dec 15 12 04:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 778
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Several months ago I was chatting with a hair stylist after a shoot when he mentioned my large list (under my other MM account) of about 500 photos showing uncommon/unusual hair styles. He asked whether I liked all of them. I said no, but hair styling is (or can be) art, and who am I to judge what is and isn’t? He said, “Yes, art is in the eye of the beholder.”

Even a Supreme Court justice once said he couldn't define porn – "but I know it when I see it."

While it's fairly easy to generalize, fact is that different people will draw the lines between artistic and fashion, artistic and glamour, artistic and erotic, glamour and erotic, and erotic and porn in somewhat different places.

And one well-known photographer who specializes in erotic says his goal is to make his erotic photos artistic.

Eliminating snapshots and just plain poor photography, most nude photos fall squarely enough within one category or another that most photographers and models would give them the same classifications. It’s at the edges where the lines get a bit fuzzy.

Feel free to browse my Nudes I Like list. I'd venture to say that most people would agree that the vast majority of the photos in the list are artistic, and most of the others are fashion – but some people might classify a few of them (maybe 1-2%) as glamour – or as both artistic and erotic.

In all honesty there are a few where none of the photos in the portfolio grabbed me - but I would like to work with the model someday.

If you approach it with that mindset, you should be able to tell which are which – at least from your own perspective.
Dec 15 12 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NYMPH
Posts: 618
Oakland, California, US


Mark Salo wrote:
Look at the photographer's portfolio and discuss with the photographer.  Don't be shy; discuss full nude, partial nude, etc.

This. And what Ed B described.

Everyone's opinion is going to vary. What's important is that you and the photographer are on the same page. So talk about it till you know the intent.


"what is an aesthetic"

Super important question. I believe it is an overall artistic vocabulary. So, it includes all the elements of a photograph. All the nouns, verbs, adjectives, punctuation, spacing of novel. And for a personal aesthetic, it includes all the art that you have digested and what you make of it. It takes a long time to develop personal aesthetic, and it's a constantly evolving processes. Personal aesthetics are always why everyone will have a different opinion. Yes, there are some hard and fast rules, but we don't live in a world of rigidly structured, universal rules, and art sure as hell doesn't abide by any codex.

Best advice, I can give: listen to what people have to say, look at their work, consider the source, choose what information to accept and what to throw aside. I.e. remember Ed's thought out descriptions, and let the b/w vs color comments roll away with a chuckle. Then you start to get your own idea of what is what, and you'll be better able to communicate about it, both in text and through your pictures.

Dec 15 12 07:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Edward
Posts: 2,462
Dallas, Texas, US


Its like this.

Pretty girl wearing nothing but a smile, and a very expensive pair of shoes.

One leg is in South Dallas, and one leg is in Melissa, (North, far North Dallas).

Me and John Fisher (Name Drop) look at it, and say; "Nice lighting."

Thats Art.

If some guy in Ohio paid ten bucks to see it, thats Porn.

The bottom line is, can you show it to Mom?
Dec 15 12 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,603
Belmont, California, US


Bunnierabbits wrote:
so this is where im slightly confused my avatar would be no genre or :s

If those are tracks on your left arm, I'd call it artistic.

Dec 15 12 09:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alluring Exposures
Posts: 11,360
Mesa, Arizona, US


Bunnierabbits wrote:
ok so what exactly is the difference

Art nude's , Glamour nude's , fashion nudes ?

and where does it just become naked pictures with
no genre ?

does it have to have a genre guess not  !

BUT.....

how exactly Do you decide  & say this is an
"art nude" ect ect

Art nude = studies texture, shapes, contrasts, emotion

Glamour nude = is about the beauty, sensuality, attractiveness of the model

Fashion nude = says something about fashion (clothes, styles, accessories) by what is shown and how

Dec 15 12 09:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alan Agus
Posts: 3
Jakarta, Jakarta, Indonesia


If it sells it's porn.  If it doesn't it's art.  Pretty simple.
Dec 16 12 04:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,406
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


There's no such thing as fashion nudes it's some interweb model site made up thing.

I'll invent one ' fashion see-though tops'.
Dec 16 12 04:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


c_h_r_i_s wrote:
There's no such thing as fashion nudes it's some interweb model site made up thing.

lol

www.vogue.it

http://www.smagazine.com/blog/

I could probably list at least 20 more if I could be bothered.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Dec 16 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Supermodel Photographer
Posts: 3,309
Oyster Bay, New York, US


Bunnierabbits wrote:
what exactly is the difference

Art nude's , Glamour nude's , fashion nudes ?

The first two have trespassing apostrophes.

Dec 16 12 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


EdBPhotography wrote:
My interpretation...

Art Nude - It's about light, form, lines, composition, contrasts, textures and mood.  It's the kind of work I'd show on a wall inside my house and not feel uncomfortable about anyone viewing it, since it's (IMO) reminiscent of the classic oil paintings.  There's almost a detachment from the model and the viewer, as if the viewer is simply looking into a scene.  Models can also come in any shape, from very thin to very heavy.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/09 … 0a4d41.jpg (18+)

Glamour Nude - It's about sexuality, beauty and titillation.  There's a sort of teasing going on because the model is either communicating that with her eyes, or accentuating the erotic body parts.  The model, in essence, is aware of the viewers and connecting with them in a way that communicates sexual desire.  Models tend to be very curvacious and have a lot of sex appeal.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/09 … 45d807.jpg (18+)

Fashion Nude - The focus is more on style.  Hair, makeup and wardrobe are very Avant Garde, or unique.  Models appear detached, but still aware of the viewer.  Models also tend to be much thinner and taller, with strong facial features.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/08 … 422f3f.jpg (18+)

Erotic Nude - Similar to artistic nudes, but there's a very strong sense of sexuality and eroticism.  Fetish can be a theme, but solo acts and couples can also be seen.  Either way, the images are bold and can be hard for some more conservative people to look at.  There's still elements of composition, lighting and tone though, so they can be very beautiful images as well.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/08 … e02b9e.jpg (18+)

Porn - Google that shit, because I can't link it here.  In essence though, there's penetration, bodily fluids, unusually long cocks, and at least one guy with a pony tail.

Again, these are just my own particular definitions.

+1 This seems like a pretty good explanation.

Dec 16 12 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FJR Photography
Posts: 6,616
Pekin, Indiana, US


T B O L wrote:

There's plenty of 18 year olds out there that would have no difficulty explaining the differences to you though!

+1

Dec 16 12 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,406
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

lol

www.vogue.it

http://www.smagazine.com/blog/

I could probably list at least 20 more if I could be bothered.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Created for web'ee people because that's where they live on the web.

Dec 16 12 10:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


c_h_r_i_s wrote:
Created for web'ee people because that's where they live on the web.

Oh my, I actually thought you were kidding when you attributed Fashion Nudes as a web-only invention.

You do know Iman was doing fashion nudes in the early and mid-80's...and many many others before (long before the internet) and since.

That's not a made-up internet term like GWC.

Dec 16 12 10:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,406
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


I'm yet to see a Vogue cover with the words 'fashion nudes'.

Edit; just received an e-mail from someone who works in the real fashion industry after asking them have they ever heard of 'nude fashion'.

Their reply was ' Isn't that called naturism'.
Dec 16 12 11:09 am  Link  Quote 
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