Dario Western wrote:
Hi all,

Seeing as I do not believe in one-sidedness in this industry, I was wondering if there are any photographers on here who have worked with models who have ulterior motives (both male and female alike)?  If so, how did you deal with the problem? 

Remember, females can be sexual predators as well - it's just that in society we are more wont to paint the male up as a predator and a female as the victim.

I will respond based on the thread's title, and ignore the implication regarding expectations of intimacy. I think the main expectation is to eventually become a professional model, without the risk or work involved in getting signed (or rejected) by an agency.

I would be surprised if models DIDN'T have ulterior motives.

Ultimately, most models would WANT to get hired, even if the initial (and realistic) expectation is to try things out for fun.

Becoming a member of a non-regulated, social networking website in order to pursue dreams of a professional career in modeling REQUIRES that you have ulterior motives.

Think about it: ultimately you hope to work with individuals that would normally be inclined to use agencies for their commercial work, simply because the agencies guarantee models with the skills attained from real world experience, not a self-assessment made up when they edit their profiles.

TRPn Pics wrote:

Models flirting with photographers..... yeah right! as if even

Hey    one can hope.

Jordan L Duncan wrote:
One of my model friends told me about another model she knew who was basically using this photographer we'd worked with on several occasions. It was pretty sad. She was gorgeous and the type to be able to pull out the puppy dog eyes and get pretty much anything she wanted. Basically she was living with her boyfriend, they broke up and he kicked her out, and she knew a photographer with a home studio. She somehow used her... ah... feminine wiles... to get the photographer to put her up for a night or two which turned into a several months long "relationship" in which she received a ton of free photos from being his personal muse, not to mention a free place to live in exchange for... girlfriend-like behavior. And then she up and left him as soon as she got a better offer and then bragged to my friend about it later.

I've heard lots of thief stories too. Especially to do with llama herders.

Not questioning your response or the relevance to the thread, as clearly she had her motivations.

Just curious though, did you ever ask the photographer if he had any complaints about the situation?

Does not sound like a scenario exclusive to photographers and models, only the muse/free photos/studio aspect.

Jordan L Duncan wrote:
One of my model friends told me about another model she knew who was basically using this photographer we'd worked with on several occasions. It was pretty sad. She was gorgeous and the type to be able to pull out the puppy dog eyes and get pretty much anything she wanted. Basically she was living with her boyfriend, they broke up and he kicked her out, and she knew a photographer with a home studio. She somehow used her... ah... feminine wiles... to get the photographer to put her up for a night or two which turned into a several months long "relationship" in which she received a ton of free photos from being his personal muse, not to mention a free place to live in exchange for... girlfriend-like behavior. And then she up and left him as soon as she got a better offer and then bragged to my friend about it later.

I've heard lots of thief stories too. Especially to do with escorts.

There is a name for folks who exchange "girlfriend-like behavior" for other considerations and they usually charge more than room & board.

I guess that she was also cheap.

Awesome Headshots wrote:
Escorts!

And no, not the type who accompanies a model to a photo shoot.

I've been propositioned with money for sex at least a dozen times.

To this day it still bewilders me.

I'm a Photographer = I am not rich (yet). Do they think that if I had an extra C note I'd spend it on a blow job and not an SD Card or marketing.... Get real!

In over 200 shoots with probably 150 models, I've NEVER been offered sex, with or without payment.  Not even a hint. 

Some models want pictures only, others are open to friendship.  That's about it.

William Kious wrote:
Come to think of it, only one model had an ulterior motive. I promised her a home cooked meal as part of the TFP package. Does slow-roasted beef, homemade noodles and green beans count as an ulterior motive?

I even picked up the brand of root beer she wanted.

Heck, I'd model for you for that! A&W root beer, please.

DavidCoward Photography wrote:

Heck, I'd model for you for that! A&W root beer, please.

That's what she requested, too. I even went to the local A&W and bought a gallon. Yes, there is a difference between the A&W on the shelf and what's served in the restaurants.

DavidCoward Photography wrote:
Heck, I'd model for you for that! A&W root beer, please.

William Kious wrote:
That's what she requested, too. I even went to the local A&W and bought a gallon. Yes, there is a difference between the A&W on the shelf and what's served in the restaurants.

When I was growing up, A&W root beer was only available at A&W restaurants. It was served in a frosty mug. Soooo yummy!

I guess it's like "real" beer: okay in a can, better in a bottle, but best on-tap.

Edit: They were frosty GLASS mugs, which probably dates me a bit.

Jordan L Duncan wrote:
One of my model friends told me about another model she knew who was basically using this photographer we'd worked with on several occasions. It was pretty sad. She was gorgeous and the type to be able to pull out the puppy dog eyes and get pretty much anything she wanted. Basically she was living with her boyfriend, they broke up and he kicked her out, and she knew a photographer with a home studio. She somehow used her... ah... feminine wiles... to get the photographer to put her up for a night or two which turned into a several months long "relationship" in which she received a ton of free photos from being his personal muse, not to mention a free place to live in exchange for... girlfriend-like behavior. And then she up and left him as soon as she got a better offer and then bragged to my friend about it later.

I've heard lots of thief stories too. Especially to do with escorts.

Okay, I've read this several times now and I'm still trying to find the problem?

Gorgeous model approaches photographer and basically ends up being a live-in muse with 'benefits' and all it cost the photographer was a 'ton of free photos'.

A little help here. Anyone? 

Jordan L Duncan wrote:
One of my model friends told me about another model she knew who was basically using this photographer we'd worked with on several occasions. It was pretty sad. She was gorgeous and the type to be able to pull out the puppy dog eyes and get pretty much anything she wanted. Basically she was living with her boyfriend, they broke up and he kicked her out, and she knew a photographer with a home studio. She somehow used her... ah... feminine wiles... to get the photographer to put her up for a night or two which turned into a several months long "relationship" in which she received a ton of free photos from being his personal muse, not to mention a free place to live in exchange for... girlfriend-like behavior. And then she up and left him as soon as she got a better offer and then bragged to my friend about it later.

I've heard lots of thief stories too. Especially to do with llama herders.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Okay, I've read this several times now and I'm still trying to find the problem?

Gorgeous model approaches photographer and basically ends up being a live-in muse with 'benefits' and all it cost the photographer was a 'ton of free photos'.

A little help here. Anyone? 

Right? Where do I sign up for such abuse?

DavidCoward Photography wrote:

DavidCoward Photography wrote:
Heck, I'd model for you for that! A&W root beer, please.

When I was growing up, A&W root beer was only available at A&W restaurants. It was served in a frosty mug. Soooo yummy!

I guess it's like "real" beer: okay in a can, better in a bottle, but best on-tap.

Edit: They were frosty GLASS mugs, which probably dates me a bit.

Our local A&W still serves in frosted glass mugs on request.

Now I'm craving some frosty-mug goodness.

Dario Western wrote:
...worked with models who have ulterior motives (both male and female alike)?  If so, how did you deal with the problem?

I photographed a male model several years ago (TF). During our shoot he said he wanted to do a very graphic shoot "next time" and was very happy to tell me all about his graphic ideas. I was annoyed because I'd made it very clear about what kind of work I do and don't do before I even booked this guy. I'd taken precautions and had my husband and adult stepson in an adjoining room with the door was open, so they also heard his creepy suggestions.That was the end of the shoot right there. I politely told him we were done. He called and left messages a couple of times with other "suggestions."  I never worked with him again. Not cool.

Cwen  wrote:

As a model, I've been approached by other models without the purest intentions. I agreed to do a shoot with a male model that failed to tell me the photographer was interested in shooting actual sex -- not just chill art nudes out in nature. Thankfully that was cleared up well in advance. But it normally doesn't get past messages asking for shitty makeout couples shoots that I'm definitely not interested in doing.

Looks like you dodged a bullet sis.

William Kious wrote:
That's what she requested, too. I even went to the local A&W and bought a gallon. Yes, there is a difference between the A&W on the shelf and what's served in the restaurants.

Dario Western wrote:
Hi all,

Seeing as I do not believe in one-sidedness in this industry, I was wondering if there are any photographers on here who have worked with models who have ulterior motives (both male and female alike)?  If so, how did you deal with the problem? 

Remember, females can be sexual predators as well - it's just that in society we are more wont to paint the male up as a predator and a female as the victim.

I've had some models insist on bringing escorts.  Against my better judgement - I let them bring one. 

One escort almost got into a public brawl with some dumbass on the street while we were shooting.  Had he just ignored catcalls and comments, we'd have been fine. 

Another escort was eyeing my equipment and when I started putting things back into the cases, I noticed something was gone.  I laid everything out according to the list I bring with me, and told everyone not to move and that I was going to search the room.  Needless to say the scumbag slipped the meter to the ground and tried to "toe" it under a bed.  Turns out he was just out of jail for petty theft related to drug charges. 

Another female model insisted on bringing her biker boyfriend "bouncer" with her - who she claimed was armed with a pistol for her protection.  I told her that unless he was licensed as a PI or security guard in my state that he could not come along while armed, and that if she needs protection like that while working, she needs to look for safer work. 

If a model is going to insist on an escort, I insist on the right to decide not to work with her depending on who her escort is.   

And I have had a few models with ulterior motives on me - one psych-job in NYC the summer of 1995 comes to mind.  She got very upset that I didn't take her up on her offers...at least that's what her sister told me.  One other girl wanted me to buy her drugs for her modeling fee.

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:
This thread cracks me up. 

I know a lot of models.  A lot.  I've heard some of them say “Yeah, I shoot with what's-his-nuts.  He's not good but I know he's going to buy me dinner and take me shopping for some modeling clothes.  Hell yeah I'll do a little flirting!  He likes being around a pretty girl!” 

I know other models who've flirted with photographers to be favored picks for trips abroad or around the country.  It's common.  Way common.  Now, I don't personally look at it in a negative light (play the hand you're dealt as stretegically or ruthlessly as you see fit; it's your life) but I see it. 

So the idea that models never come into shoots with ulterior motives (or that it doesn't happen frequently) is bs.  Yes, some of those motives are sexual.  Look: models talk.  They may not talk here about what and who they do, but they do discuss it with people they trust.  Brag, even.  They come on to photographers commonly enough; they like to get laid like anyone else and they sometimes happen to be attracted to a collaborator. 

What you're most likely to find is that many photographers are okay with it and unwilling to discuss it in a public forum because they don't want to mess it up.  Discretion is preferable to childish gossip.

^This!^

ms-photo wrote:
* * * WARNING * * *

There are two beautiful models around here working as a team.  During the shoot, they strip completely naked, start making out with each other, and ask the photographer to rub hot oil all over their naked bodies.  Then one of them lures you up to the bedroom while the other one steals your wallet and any photography equipment that is lying around.

Be careful, they are very good at this.  They already got me three times in December and twice last week.

Sounds like you don't mind it.

Art of the nude wrote:

In over 200 shoots with probably 150 models, I've NEVER been offered sex, with or without payment.  Not even a hint. 

Some models want pictures only, others are open to friendship.  That's about it.

Bummer dude! haha...

ms-photo wrote:
* * * WARNING * * *

There are two beautiful models around here working as a team.  During the shoot, they strip completely naked, start making out with each other, and ask the photographer to rub hot oil all over their naked bodies.  Then one of them lures you up to the bedroom while the other one steals your wallet and any photography equipment that is lying around.

Be careful, they are very good at this.  They already got me three times in December and twice last week.

Poor you

Scarlett Renee wrote:
Bummer dude! haha...

Now that's just mean coming from a model. A photographer can dream can't he?

intense_puppy wrote:

Now that's just mean coming from a model. A photographer can dream can't he?

Not if those dreams are of ulterior motives!

ms-photo wrote:
* * * WARNING * * *

There are two beautiful llamas around here working as a team.  During the shoot, they strip completely naked, start making out with each other, and ask the photographer to rub hot oil all over their naked bodies.  Then one of them lures you up to the bedroom while the other one steals your wallet and any photography equipment that is lying around.

Be careful, they are very good at this.  They already got me three times in December and twice last week.

::snicker::

Dario Western wrote:
Hi all,

Seeing as I do not believe in one-sidedness in this industry, I was wondering if there are any photographers on here who have worked with llamas who have ulterior motives (both male and female alike)?  If so, how did you deal with the problem? 

Remember, females can be sexual predators as well - it's just that in society we are more wont to paint the male up as a predator and a female as the victim.

I have not been a victim as such, but I have on more than one occation been offered services beyond the llamaling on occations. Sort of took the creative buzz out of the one shoot, as that was one of the first things she said... So I sent her home... The other one was a little more subtle and the offer came at the end of the shoot. Made me loose all respect for the llamas, and will never use them again. I guess some don't mind, but I'm sort of offended by offered sex for money... I can get laid without paying for it...

In general I don't feel threatened by llamas at all, and find most of them to be very sweet and sincere in what they do. It may be because I'm an old fat guy that I don't get pursued by girl llamas in their 20's! I don't shoot a lit of guys. I guess there are some bad seeds among llamas too.. Or at least some posing as llamas to hook...

J.