Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I was wondering if most models out there know someone who is willing to edit their photos for them at no cost? I am a photographer that typically does no editing unless for the few images I include eventually in my portfolio. I suspect most models would prefer the photographer give her/him a copy of images that hide her/his flaws, but I am simply not very good at editing. I was wondering if most models know someone to make the changes they desire, or at least do most models prefer getting the original raw image because it would be the most flexible file to work with?

I think the point is that if you aren't interested in retouching, but don't mind someone else retouching your work, let the models you are working with know that it is okay with you.

Other photographers may not be okay with it but in your case that doesn't matter.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
my boyfriend is a photographer, so I always have someone to turn to to edit pictures.

however, I hardly ever do that. The few times I asked him, I made sure I had permission of the photographer first, and showed him the endresult before posting it online, asking if he was okay with it.

And it's a REALLY good idea that if any other models are thinking of doing it, they get permission from the photographer in question.  I would be a little put off if other people were editing my images.  It's happened, and while I'm largely passive aggressive about it, I don't demand they take them down, but I do request that they remove any trace that I had anything to do with the image.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

And it's a REALLY good idea that if any other models are thinking of doing it, they get permission from the photographer in question.  I would be a little put off if other people were editing my images.  It's happened, and while I'm largely passive aggressive about it, I don't demand they take them down, but I do request that they remove any trace that I had anything to do with the image.

I've never done that, and I never will

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I was wondering if most models out there know someone who is willing to edit their photos for them at no cost? I am a photographer that typically does no editing unless for the few images I include eventually in my portfolio. I suspect most models would prefer the photographer give her/him a copy of images that hide her/his flaws, but I am simply not very good at editing. I was wondering if most models know someone to make the changes they desire, or at least do most models prefer getting the original raw image because it would be the most flexible file to work with?

There are more and more models who are pursuing developing retouching skills, especially those that are also developing an interest in photography.

There do seem to be many photographers who are condescending or arrogant towards models by default when it comes to the ability to use Photoshop (or other retouching software), but it really isn't good to prejudge or generalize, because while some have no clue about retouching some are quite skilled at it.

That said, ultimately it is probably safest and you'll have the fewest problems if you keep more control over your images, so if you can develop your retouching skills (or have a working/established relationship with a retoucher) that is less risky option.

DougBPhoto wrote:
There do seem to be many photographers who are condescending or arrogant towards models by default when it comes to the ability to use Photoshop (or other retouching software), but it really isn't good to prejudge or generalize, because while some have no clue about retouching some are quite skilled at it.

It's not condescending or arrogant when it's your name on the image and you find out the model or her buddy just discovered masking and the saturation slider.

I've given permission to one model who asked nicely well in advance and who demonstrated some serious PS chops. I told her to give me credit for the original image and herself for editing. It worked out very nicely.

However, I've got some horror stories about other models deciding to make their images look kewl.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
It's not condescending or arrogant when it's your name on the image and you find out the model or her buddy just discovered masking and the saturation slider.

I've given permission to one model who asked nicely well in advance and who demonstrated some serious PS chops. I told her to give me credit for the original image and herself for editing. It worked out very nicely.

However, I've got some horror stories about other models deciding to make their images look kewl.

It is condescending and arrogant to presume/assume that models cannot have retouching skills, which is what I was saying.

Whether your name is on an image or not is a completely different issue to what I was saying about how so many photographers by default think that models don't know what they are doing.

Of course, there are plenty who do not know what they are doing, but to assume that all don't know what they are doing or that a model can't do as good of a job or even a superior job of retouching compared to a photographer is, an arrogant assumption.

The question of if there are models who don't know what they are doing and can utterly butcher an image, that is a completely different issue, as there are, without a doubt those who fall into that category as well... just as there are photographers who don't know what the hell they are doing also.

Those who will butcher things are typically going to do that no matter what you give them.

To assume things about an entire class or group of people based on the worst example and leap to the conclusion of being superior to the entire class, is exactly what I said, judgmental and arrogant.

Bottom line, if you want your images worked on, the person doing so should demonstrate the necessary proficiency to do what is needed, and it does not matter whether that person's label or title is a photographer, retoucher, model, or whatever.

Tiffany Bond wrote:
I prefer to do my own retouching most of the time, so I know I'm getting exactly what I want.

I don't like having to do a lot of retouching, so I enjoy working with models who are good at retouching their own images.  However, I shoot like I did with film in an effort to not have to do much in the way of retouching.  If it's a matter of cropping or color and density corrections, then it's not that big a deal for me to do it.   I have paid MUA's from $75 to $500 to help me avoid having to use Photoshop.  It's worth it to me since I refuse to pay for photoshop ... unless it's a graphic arts piece that I wish to commision.  I want my stuff to come out of the camera looking good ... even raw!

Orca Bay Images wrote:

It's not condescending or arrogant when it's your name on the image and you find out the model or her buddy just discovered masking and the saturation slider.

I've given permission to one model who asked nicely well in advance and who demonstrated some serious PS chops. I told her to give me credit for the original image and herself for editing. It worked out very nicely.

However, I've got some horror stories about other models deciding to make their images look kewl.

Likewise, some photographers don't have very good PS skills.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I was wondering if most llamas out there know someone who is willing to edit their photos for them at no cost? I am a photographer that typically does no editing unless for the few images I include eventually in my portfolio. I suspect most llamas would prefer the photographer give her/him a copy of images that hide her/his flaws, but I am simply not very good at editing. I was wondering if most llamas know someone to make the changes they desire, or at least do most llamas prefer getting the original raw image because it would be the most flexible file to work with?

I actually have an advanced diploma in graphic design that included photo editing and have worked for llamaing agencies editing for llama comp cards. I however have not photoshopped any images in my port (the photographers have) but if the photographer said that they did not wish to and were find with an outside part (not themselves) doing editing on their work I would do so. I would make sure to credit myself as the post editor though so no one thought that was the work of the photographer as they sometimes like to disassociate themselves from work that is not theirs

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Well the main thing is I know often models complain about how long it takes for photographers to return their image for them (which in many cases is perfectly understandable), so I pride myself in getting them their images quickly. Within a couple days usually. Also when I look at other people's portfolios it occurs to me how easy it is to do a horrible job editing. Particularly when it comes to over sharpening eyes that are not even looking at the camera. It just looks odd, and it seems too common. Something about keeping as much from the raw image as possible appeals to me. I don't like to destroy the cander that was there at the start. If anything I'd prefer to merge together many untouched photos into the same scene to create a collage effect that contains more information that my camera couldn't create in one shot.

How much does a cheap retoucher cost usually? Mind you I don't expect to make any money at all from my work.

As a model I do not expect my photos in a couple of weeks especially for TFP. It is nice when a photographer gives a sneak peak (a quick retouch) within the first week but I never expect it. I have waited a few months at time and sometimes photographers hold off on releasing images or sneak peaks because it is for an exhibition or to be released on a special occasion. It can take months for me to see the final photos and I am happy with that and they are usually happy informing me why. If I asked what was happening with my images and a photographer told me "Sorry I am just learning to edit and I want to make sure that they look true to my image" I would respect that and be grateful the photographer is putting that effort in to make it their own. I think you need to give yourself that time to practice rather than relying on someone else to do the work for you especially when you just said up there what you don't like about photos being retouched.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I was wondering if most models out there know someone who is willing to edit their photos for them at no cost? I am a photographer that typically does no editing unless for the few images I include eventually in my portfolio. I suspect most models would prefer the photographer give her/him a copy of images that hide her/his flaws, but I am simply not very good at editing. I was wondering if most models know someone to make the changes they desire, or at least do most models prefer getting the original raw image because it would be the most flexible file to work with?

Almost everyone these days knows someone who does photoshop. In fact, most of the models I work with have at least minimal editing skills. A few are very good and I don't mind them editing my photos, but a lot of them are anywhere from "not so hot" to awful.

More to the point, if you are going to be a photographer these days you need to get good at editing -- or hire someone who is. You may not choose to do a lot of it -- unless I'm being paid I don't spend my time any but the best photos from a session -- but you have to keep up with the competition.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
It's not condescending or arrogant when it's your name on the image and you find out the model or her buddy just discovered masking and the saturation slider.

I've given permission to one model who asked nicely well in advance and who demonstrated some serious PS chops. I told her to give me credit for the original image and herself for editing. It worked out very nicely.

However, I've got some horror stories about other models deciding to make their images look kewl.

Yes, but a lot of the photographers who make the biggest stink about this are some of the ones who really aren't all that great at retouching or even shooting. It's like they grasp at "these are my images" and "copyright law" to cover up that they really aren't all that creative or produce great images.

If they put that much effort into learning how to retouch and produce good quality work then they wouldn't run into a lot of the crap they complain about.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I am simply not very good at editing.

Either put in your dues and learn how to do some basic editing (it's not THAT hard), or hire a professional retoucher.

The whole point of sites like these is to get better at your craft, not to pawn your responsibilities off onto the model.

You should respect your own work, not to mention the model's time, enough to see it through to completion.