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Lack of replies from models
I'm new on this site and have tried to contact 8 or 9 models to do an outdoor spring photoshoot. One replied within an hour indicating she was leaving the area for summer break from college and would love to do a shoot in the fall. Absolutely nothing from the others. I'm retiring in July and trying to build my photography business. I've had some success in the golf/landscape area and want to expand my portfolio and skills with "people" photography. I have been clear on the type of shoot I'd like to do, dates available, compensation, prints, and CD's available for the model. Am I just old fashion or is it just plain rude and un-professional not to repy to a request for work? Jim May 03 13 06:04 pm Link Did you offer compensation? May 03 13 06:10 pm Link Its normal, when you are famous , you can't keep the models away. If you're a nobody, you have to grovel, beg. whatever to get anybody to respond. The models halfway decent will get slammed with requests to shoot. Maybe you'll get some sympathetic model to help you out. nothings changed much , still groveling begging ...I get no respect.. May 03 13 06:17 pm Link Maybe old fashion but these days no reply is an answer, even in the corp workplace HR departments are unlikely to reply to all applicants. It's a form of unprofessionalism that has become the norm across multiple industries. But if you are paying then also consider places like Craig's list. You probably won't find any real models but if your client base is consumer it should be fine to just shoot some "pretty people" May 03 13 06:18 pm Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: Hi Jim. Before I get done typing this there will be plenty of people who say "NO REPLY IS A REPLY". Me personally, say that's bullshit. It is rude and unprofessional not to reply. Then there will be those who say "Oh, I'm busy, I have no time to reply". I say bullshit again because if you have to time to LOG IN to MM and read e-mails then you have the time to at least type a few words like "NO Thanks" or I'm interested. Please send more info". or "I'm interested but I'm busy right now. I'll contact you later". Anyway, all I can say is keep sending e-mails HOPING to get a reply. It's a numbers game. Oh, another thing to remember, that even if you get a reply, odds are, she will end up flaking. Welcome to the Mayhem May 03 13 06:21 pm Link Yes, I have offered compensation although I left it sort of open. I tell the potential model I will pay a reasonable hourly rate, compensate reasonable expenses, and provide 6-10 prints and a CD of the shoot. While no answer is a kind of reply, I believe it is un-professional and rude. May 03 13 06:56 pm Link Put out a casting call and see who bites. May 03 13 07:09 pm Link Jim, you and I grew up in a different time. Young folks today can't be bothered responding negatively to anything. If I get no reply, I infer the model isn't interested and isn't likely to be in future, so I write 'em off the list. Actually, you can work your way rather quickly through the cloud of wannabes that way. The ones who reply, even with a "no thanks, not this time" are the keepers. The simply truth is that this site, like so many other online modeling sites, contains profiles from a LOT of people who just want to be able to say "hey, see, I'm a model" but don't actually want to do any of the WORK it takes to actually BE a model. So I'm kinda grateful for such an easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff, you know? May 03 13 07:16 pm Link Marin Photography wrote: Yeah a casting call is the way to go. Lay it all out and make sure you have all the information that maybe required and see who applies. May 03 13 07:16 pm Link some have more luck finding models on craig's list (or OMP). on mayhem you can do a casting call. cold calling models has never worked for me. i've had 100% success with the traveling models. if you get good at doing lifestyle seems like you should be able to find some models for that. this guy has a lifestyle course at kelbytraining: http://erikvalind.com/lifestyle/ May 03 13 07:29 pm Link Hello Jim! I am completely at the other far end of the world compared to where you are, but I thought it would be nice to leave a comment nonetheless. Even though I am one of those bloody youngsters, I too think it's rude not to respond to a message. Especially if it is from someone who wants to work with you. Manners matter! Either way, I wish you well on your photography business, hope it works out! Best, Doris (玲玲） May 03 13 07:57 pm Link I agree, it doesn't feel nice when people don't respond but that's the way it is... almost nobody responds with a "no thanks" message. Some people get actually very offensive when you tell them that you don't want to work with them and it creeps you out. If you were on the other side, you might not want to answer too. Here are a few thoughts: - don't pick models that are completely out of your league, they won't work with you even for money - tell them exactly how much you're paying, nobody wants to waste time to find out that you're not paying much - don't talk as much about golf courses in your profile. Just imagine how it feels if someone told you "hey, usually I shoot golf courses but now I'd like to shoot you!" Claus May 03 13 08:31 pm Link what do you think is a reasonable rate? if you put in that you are offering $100/hour for lifestyle shots on a golf course i'd be really surprised if no one took you up on that. seems like easy money for the model compared to some of the other things that get shot here. also, unlike some other sites i think it's customary here for the photographer to have one of their images as the avatar not a picture of themselves (although some keep a pic of themselves in their portfolio). it can be a bit of a chicken&egg problem getting going on here. just keep after it and eventually you'll get your kite in the air. and i think models learn not to respond with a negative because they get flamed for it by some of the less mature members where their ego may outweigh their skill. Jim Fitzroy wrote: May 04 13 08:27 am Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: If only you were closer Jim! I ALWAYS reply, even when I'm not interested. Though I run a business as well and if I didn't reply to those emails/phone calls I couldn't pay my bills lol. I look at modeling as a sales position. In sales if a customer contacts you it is in your best interest to respond even if you are not interested or can not help, because your best marketing tool is word of mouth and leaving a good impression is the best way for that to occur. May 04 13 08:38 am Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: Took me more than 6 months to get my first MM shoot, then, for some reason I was very popular for a while and averaged 3-5 shoots a week. Now I do maybe 2 shoots a week at most. Just hang in there and as suggested, post a casting call and see who responds. May 04 13 08:45 am Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: I dunno. Jim Fitzroy wrote: I think it is unprofessional to expect replies from people who are not interested in working with you. May 04 13 08:48 am Link This younger generation is very self absorbed with no manners. I'm not judging everyone, but for the most part in what I've dealt with holds true. May 04 13 09:02 am Link ontherocks wrote: Depends who you are offering it too also, whenever i am taking a break and have a message on my profiles saying i'm not working people still contact me fairly regularly about work. Likewise i get offers for work i don't do. May 04 13 09:10 am Link Thank you to everyone who weighted in on my comment/question. There are some great suggestions there and I will certainly edit my profile and have a different Avatar. I don't think the comparison to a Viagra junk email was valid as this site is designed for photographers and llamas to hook up to work together. If the llamas didn't want requests for a shoot they shouldn't be here! I will try a casting call and maybe Craig's list as well as continuing to contact llamas on this site. One other point; what would be fair compensation for a llama doing an outdoor "lifestyle" type shoot for 2-3 hours? May 04 13 10:25 am Link Hey Jim, It's always tough being the new guy. (I'm in that mode on MM myself) Models are like any other freelancers, their rates can vary wildly. If you're talking real pros, expect somewhere around $100 / hr as a ballpark figure. Rookies will require substantially less, Big League Pros can go much more at the end of the day, you get the talent you can negotiate for. Hope that helps. Cheers. May 04 13 10:40 am Link As I do nude modeling on the side as a hobby, have no financial need for compensation, and am mostly just looking to do occasional work with a few high-quality photographers who might take me if they're super kind, I generally have a 'no' answer for most who ask. For a long time I replied to every message, but after the 50th' time of finding some nice way of saying "I'm sorry, but you're not quite what I'm looking for," it got really exhausting. Plus after I say 'no' most of them will try to change my mind, like "well I actually have more photos over here" or "I'll up the payment" or "nooo you didn't hear all of my ideas." And I don't like those conversations. I usually will reply with a no if someone has put a lot of work into their message, but nowadays I just don't. I know if I message someone and they don't reply (I have a photographer account here too, so that happens a lot), I don't take it personally, nor do I get annoyed. I completely understand. May 04 13 10:45 am Link It's the same with photographers, MUA's designer etc on MM - if nothing is happening for a month or something then one just doesn't bother logging in for a while. I had an answer from a photographer who I wrote to 6 months ago and he had just been concentrating on other work. I don't think that's rude; people are busy and if some other aspect of their work takes off then one may simply not check in for a while; MM message notifications go in spam etc. So it isn't necessarily no reply is an answer. It can be that things change. There are still profiles here for models who have since become agency models and their last check ins a year or more ago. They may not check in that often. So see for example if they have emails listed or when their last check in was. May 04 13 10:53 am Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: There could be truth in that statement. May 04 13 10:57 am Link Thanks guys! This post is really encouranging. I was thinking I did something wrong. I have had not one responce from my casting call either. I have jobs lining up and no llamas to shoot with. I didn't want to try Craigslist but maybe that is an additional source worth looking into. The reality is I've had more replies (6) for posting on my personal Facebook page than I did on MM (I know a girl that llamas, etc). Anyway, thanks and carry on  May 04 13 11:01 am Link Jim, as to rates, $40/hr. is reasonable to me. Even one agency gave me models at that rate with a 2 hr. minimum (More likely I went 3 hours as one may be MUAH stuff.). Some of the better LA fashion ones will do entire day for $400 (without their agency's knowledge). Nudes are often $100/hr. I know several who make that their mainstay (nudes) and they don't go over $500/day with the nude ones for their workshops or whatever, and some are far less relying on notoriety claims for more jobs. I also thought I read somewhere (on here?) if you hit $600/day, then you have to do some tax reporting stuff and with them too. As mentioned, "The Travelers" are often the cream of the crop if you get a commitment from one. They base their 'Getting there' (to you) and 'Out of there' (to their next gig) in their travel plans and are less likely to flake as a result. You are 'their personal transporter' at times from/to the next bus station, train station, airport, etc. They tend to be better in front of the camera as well and most are very experienced too. It's their bread and butter, and most often their full time job too. If you live in an active area where "the travelers" might go for a several gigs, some photogs will 'host' them for a few days in exchange for a free shoot verses them staying in a hotel. On the "No response" thing, what I do is put in something like: "I treat a no response within 4 days as a "Not interested" and move on." I wouldn't want to get caught up in a double-booking mess due to some late responder - or sit around wondering. Funny how many don't respond at all, but do have time to try and "Friend" everyone on planet earth so the "I don't have time to respond to all." is a questionable excuse at best. I chalk it up to unprofessional as well. Even an agency will respond, often many times too, if something schedule-wise isn't working. Never went the Craigslist route so I can't help there. Good luck. May 04 13 11:04 am Link After a year and a half on MM, trying to line up TFP shoots, it seems only to be getting harder. It also depends on what kind of photos you're taking and the kind of girls you are looking for-- but it seems to have become a point of pride for models to put "Paid shoots only". This time last year I found I had sent out 72 new requests for TFP shoots and messaged with about 25 girls I was already in contact with--in one week. If you want to keep any kind of sanity, I would pick the reliable, pro models on MM and just arrange paid shoots with them. (I'm a Portrait photographer mostly looking for actresses, Not a Fashion guy, so I really don't want Pro models--but the TFP route really takes a toll on your mind and spirit.) May 04 13 11:23 am Link GRMACK wrote: A tax form 1099 is required if you pay someone $600 or more for the year. May 04 13 11:30 am Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: [b"]If the models didn't want requests for a shoot they shouldn't be here"[/b] Is exactly right. I have two current castings. I've left several messages. Nothing... and this from models who replied too my call. Not me approaching them to shoot first or offering TF but paid work. As for what real world business do. If most of you wrote fashion and commercial agencies and they had no interest in allowing you to test their models you will still get a reply. Viagra junk mail aside. If you aren't going to reply to people requesting shoots then why are you here? May 04 13 11:52 am Link Gosh look at all the entitlement masquerading as sensitivity to manners. If you're not getting replies, change your offer, who you're contacting, how you pick models, your framing, your portfolio, and soon you will fix the issue. May 04 13 12:31 pm Link Damianne wrote: I don't think you can expect professionalism, from MM members, through-and-through, as the site caters to many different genres, and it's not a model agency, it just a forum to meet, and to try and achieve common goals, or for freelance models to book a gig with a photographer. Many women joining this site have the opportunity to try out their modeling dreams. I checked out one model who doesn't like to reply unless she's interested, and all she really does are nudes and just things that interest her, and money really doesn't seem to be the object, so while it may seem reasonable to expect people to act like it is a business they are operating, most of the models have not really invested in said business. Many are exploring, and some are not sure if they should really, really go all out, and the site allows this. MM was very useful for me in building my book. I had two choices, once I decided on a path: hire real agency models, if possible, and become more broke, or build it here through trade. I have never complained about experiences as this site is not perfect. It's just a forum to meet and there are other sites, as people have pointed out: craigslist. May 04 13 12:58 pm Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: Just an idea, but where you're new to photography why not work with models who are new to modeling and you can help each other to build your respective portfolios? I believe you can search models by how recently they joined MM and that should help. May 04 13 01:08 pm Link This isn't about entitlement masquerading as sensitivity to manners. There is NO point to being here as a llama if you are not going to actually llama. Part of that is responding to serious offers if asked. Say, no thank you. Say maybe another time. Say fuc^ you but say something. There is a recent thread where a llama complained about her lack of offers. A good MM shooter spoke up and reminded her he had offered a shoot and she never answered. No one is entitled to anything and yet if I say hello to someone on the street its rude if they don't reply. Here is why it hurts llamas. That offer of payment could be increased but how would they know if they never reply. A member has mentioned 'your portfolio'. Yo... the OP is offering money. What his portfolio looks like isn't important. If you are a llama member yet aren't shooting. Why are you here? Why spend the time to upload images and join if you have no plans to network, look for work or improve your portfolio. If the ideal is just show the world some pretty photos just stay on Facebook. Leave MM to those who actually want too llama and or make money. May 04 13 03:43 pm Link Jim, Don't sweat the "Small Stuff," and remember that it's ALL "Small Stuff!" :-) Just have fun and build your business... I wish you the Best of Success in all of your future endeavors out here! Kindest regards, Edward May 04 13 03:54 pm Link Have you checked their profiles to see if they have logged in since your message was sent. I know people are saying no reply is a reply but sometimes if people are busy they wont even log on for a few weeks. They may not have even reas your message May 04 13 03:58 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: ^^^THIS +100000000000^^^ May 04 13 04:01 pm Link Scarlett de la Calle wrote: Checked a profile ; model last logged in a week ago, then I looked at her pic's all from 2009 ! May 04 13 04:20 pm Link Jim Fitzroy wrote: Most of the girls who sign up and call themselves 'models' here want requests for shoots, sure enough. May 04 13 04:25 pm Link Waive some money in a casting and they will all come - a - calling. You should also understand that there are lots of "models" that don't need another outside photo shoot. And to understand the young "models" of today is to understand the world that is being created by them today. If I call my 18yo niece she never picks up her shiny new iPhone5 but then I remember I should text or Facebook her if I want a faster reply (yes I only call here these days when I need a pretty, young face to practice on). So if you don't get the response that you want, don't fret. Offer some money because someone will need it to buy a new iPhone. Congrats on your retirement  Good Luck with your photographyMay 04 13 08:56 pm Link Not to sound rude but if I viewed someones page who contacted me with interest and thy only had 7 pictures on their page I don't reply back. Especially if their page says they are retiring I would see it pointless to work with them. Maybe the Models didn't want to waste their time with a reply. May 04 13 09:02 pm Link Colorado Model Amber wrote: No disrespect but that makes no sense at all. If someone is offering to pay you why would you care if they retiring. So what they only have seven images. New members only get 15 unless they pay. Would you turn down $100.00 a hour because someone is new? He's not retiring as a photographer. Some of the models on this site complain that so many shooters only offer TF but they make it damn near impossible to hire them. May 04 13 09:21 pm Link |
