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Is This Fair for A TFCD Shoot?
For a TF shoot, I give 2 edits per look (outfit). I only give web ready images at 600 pixels on the longest side and 72 dpi. I never give out images on a CD. All images are emailed. I never give out CDs for TF shoots. May 17 13 07:18 pm Link Just to provide another perspective... As a MUA/H the photos I might love to receive in trade are not necessarily the photos a model or photographer would choose. I want photos that showcase my work for port purposes. So being able to choose which image(s) I would like to receive in the finished form in trade is appreciated. However, the number of images is not of utmost importance. Quality is. The truth is, I'm only going to use one kickass image from a single shoot at a time in my portfolio. So as long as the work is great, I'm happy with one amazing image. I really like getting a few so I have choices. But part of my responsibility is to choose who I work with. If I'm not reasonably confident a photographer can give me one kickass image I'm not going to work for trade in the first place. I'd rather have one amazing than 10 pretty good. May 17 13 07:31 pm Link Many of my photo shoots tend to be of the group shoot variety, where I may have only 30 minutes per model, so realistically for me, 1-3 images is usually the norm. Private shoots where I have more time, the norm is 3-5/hour. May 17 13 07:36 pm Link Opinions are all over the place, depending on how the photographer likes to work, what the model hopes to get from the shoot, why each person is doing it in the first place. I'm of the opinion (not shared by everyone) that modeling is an activity that demands both skill and talent in addition to a pretty face and body. Therefore whatever the model's level, getting all the unedited pictures can be a real benefit if she's willing to accept them for that purpose and not make the kindness a cause for photographers to stop providing the service. I'm also of the opinion that the photographer bears a good deal of the responsibility if the privilege is abused because it means that he wasn't careful enough in performing his own due diligence. TF is a system predicated on trust and given that expectations, goals and reliability vary so widely, it's the photographer's own fault if he regularly shoots TF with people that abuse the privilege. Much of this problem can be prevented with decent communication between the parties rather than establishing arbitrary standards by either party. All IMHO, as always. May 17 13 08:26 pm Link Kalen Lea wrote: So you changed your process based on one model even though all your previous models were happy! May 19 13 02:22 am Link As others have said "fair" is what you agree on and there is no right or wrong. For me it varies from shoot to shoot because I do very little TF work these days. When I do, it's more likely I'm testing the model for future project work (paid and TF) with more complexity. I prefer choosing what gets retouched at the time and in the future (I sometimes re-visit old shoots), and give those. I expect people to work with me based on my port which I picked the photos for, if they are not happy with that, pay or jog-on. I prefer working with people who are fun, divas ARE a minority even though it doesn't look it in these forums. May 19 13 03:20 am Link 10 images is very generous, but it really depends on the style of shooting being done. My average is about 5-6, but it really depends on how much effort is required in editing and retouching the images, as well as number of looks and variety in the looks etc. I generally only provide web-resolution images, as no one tends to print images nowadays, plus retouching for print requires more work than retouching for web. May 19 13 04:33 am Link Kalen Lea wrote: In my experience, the best models expect only the best photos. May 19 13 09:03 am Link Yeah, I'm in the 10-20 edited shots for a typical TF shoot. I choose them - I believe my eye is one thing I'm bringing to the party - but I do try to give a good range of compositions, lighting, poses, etc. so the model has options. I always try to have good communication with the model and MUA during the shoot - if a model suggests a shot s/he wants, I make sure I edit up at least one of that look/pose/light/framing. Similarly, I always make a point of asking the MUA what they need - usually, it's a well-lit colour headshot. I show the back of camera a lot during a shoot - to show what is working, sometimes what is not working, to encourage and sometimes to suggest changes. I usually find in doing that you get a good feel for what the other artists involved want to see. May 19 13 01:19 pm Link Ten edited images is fair as long as the model gets to select which 10 with the photographer. The model and photographer are often looking at different things. I am looking at my pose, expression, is the angle flattering. I want the shots that make me look best. The photographer is looking at lighting, composition, etc. The images that make him/her look best. Often, my favorite shots are not the photographers favorite shots and vice versa. So if I get a say in which pics I get...then 10 is fine. May 19 13 10:03 pm Link I learned really quick never give out Raw images and there is no use to give all images to a model. I only give out images that are wed ready and I email them. I also tag them all with my logo. Unless agreed a pond before hand and it has to be a model I have worked with before (that I really like). I think 10 images is very fair as long as the model is told before the shoot. May 19 13 10:20 pm Link Personally, as a model, I prefer to have all of the images on a cd. This doesn't mean I'll use the unedited chosen shots on my portfolio. What it is is a reference base to be able to go back and constantly keep in mind recurring mistakes made. Like for instance if in a shoot I have 20 shots where my eyes were half closed, I want to be aware that I'm doing that too much and need to keep a handle on it on my next shoot. If a pose needs a slight adjustment and it WOULD have turned out good with that adjustment but didn't work on that shoot, I want to be able to ID that problem and correct it. GOOD models dont just take the good images. Good models learn from both what is fantastic, what went ok but could have been better, what went bad, what their recurring negatives are, any flaws that they never thought to think about are right there to be able to be noticed. THIS is why I still ask for ALL images on cd. Its a self motivation of a constant drive for improvement and perfection. Do I expect ever to be perfect? No. I do however know that the higher you aim, the farther you will reach. A tip, if you have a photo not edited, watermark it with the word RAW across it, so that the model can't realisitcally use it with any credibility on her portfolio. May 21 13 09:53 pm Link Dovetail_Stormrider wrote: No offence but you must work with a healthy amount of amateurs. You can ask for anything from anyone at anytime your heart desires. May 21 13 10:04 pm Link Richard Tallent wrote: ^This^ May 21 13 10:09 pm Link Kalen Lea wrote: Very fair. May 27 13 01:06 am Link Kalen Lea wrote: I never let models have raw images - I sometimes do a few quick edits (they are always so eager) but I always downsize them. May 27 13 01:30 am Link Some bitch is currently making me edit more pictures, and it's 1:49am. I told her I would edit her favorites 2 days ago - she took that to mean I would edit them all right freaking now. BITCH LET ME SLEEP. Edit from yesterday:  PS I love you - and to OP: 10 is plenty, my WIFE is only asking for 6. May 27 13 01:55 am Link -JAY- wrote: I did let you sleep...with me. This is why I deserves the peektures, duh. May 27 13 02:02 am Link 10 edited photos chosen by the model is definitely very fair. Who cares for raw images? May 27 13 02:08 am Link all images is just silly, just as RAW images. No sensible model would use those for her/his portfolio. I provide 5-10 edited pictures, that should give the model enough choice to pick 1-3 pictures for her/his pf. I generally select the pictures myself. Not that I don't trust models in making selections, but they chose to work with me based on my pf, which was selected by me. So I assume that the model trusts my ability to select. Ninety to ninety-five percent of the models I work with, view this as perfectly fine. May 27 13 02:57 am Link Would just like to know how people expect a model to learn from her mistakes if she never sees them.... May 27 13 01:59 pm Link Would just like to know how people expect a model to learn from her mistakes if she never sees them.... May 27 13 01:59 pm Link As far as what she gets back for PORT use that is more than fair, like i said, the raw images only hold use as a look at that and see what you did wrong dont do it again tool. May 27 13 02:00 pm Link This i why by now, out of 400 shots total, only maybe 5 are bad pics. Because I learn from my mistakes. After 6 years of viewing both port photos and the bad ones, or the ones that just werent good enough, a photographer can click the shutter button 10 times total with me, and get 8-10 amazing shots, that need maybe 10 minutes of photo shop or less. Because I learn from everything. Its why when you shoot with me the hard part wont be editing, it will be choosing which ones to use. May 27 13 02:03 pm Link Dovetail_Stormrider wrote: You will seriously damage your chances of shooting with anybody decent with a demand like this - unless you're PAYING to have all the images on CD, of course! Camabs wrote: 100% here. May 27 13 02:18 pm Link I don't shoot much TF these days (maybe 4-5 times a year) as I'd rather pay models and then sell the images. But when I do shoot TF, I will provide them with ALL of the images in proof form if asked. That said, most of the models I TF with don't ask. If you want, you can show them all of the images in proof form via a web gallery with a semi-transparent stamp across the middle that says something like "Proof - Not to be used. Report use to [email protected]" - Guarantee some jealous person will report it if they use it. May 27 13 02:37 pm Link If that is what both parties agreed to beforehand then it is fair. May 28 13 03:31 am Link |
