Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20621
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
They only hire tall, young, and gorgeous models. If you want to believe the MYTH, go on and continue not doing what you're doing. In the meantime, if you sign up at a REAL licensed agency, you'll probably get casting calls like this: (Names and Contact information have been deleted, and no I'm not going to divulge it to anyone. This is a casting that I received from a local agent. I do not work for the agent as a recruiter or anything like that, however I am listed as one of their models because I've actually done a few modeling gigs for the agent in the past) Paul Mitchell Hair Show
Please respond if you intend on attending the audition.
We need to submit your name!
PAUL MITCHELL / LAS VEGAS NV
" THE GATHERING " BEAUTY FASHION
HAIR SHOW AUDITIONS
For further information please Email: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Please SUBMIT your head shot and Stats.
MALES & FEMALES:
AGES 18 - 55 [ NO ONE UNDER 18 YRS ]
ALL ETHNICITIES & HEIGHTS / MODEL TYPES
ALL HAIR LENGTHS , TEXTURES & COLORS
[BLONDE, BROWN, RED, BLACK, GREY,
PARTIAL GREY]
NO WEAVES / WIGS / EXTENSIONS / BRAIDS / SHAVED / BUZZED / BALD HEADS
HOW MUCH CUT COLOR STYLING IS DONE IS DETERMINED BETWEEN Talent & ARTISTS
FYI:
TALENT PRIOR TO THE CASTING SHOULD NOT
CUT OR CHANGE THERE HAIR .
THEY SHOULD LEAVE THERE HAIR THE
WAY IT IS NOW.
AUDITION DATE:
THURSDAY JULY 25 2013
FEMALE Talent: 1:00 P.M - 3:00 P.M
MALE Talent : 3:00 P.M - 4:00 P.M
PLACE:
xxxx xxxxx STUDIOS
xxxxxxxxxxxx
LAS VEGAS , NEVADA 89xxx
[ NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE . GOOGLE FOR DIRECTIONS ]
PREP DATES:
FRIDAY / SATURDAY / SUNDAY /
AUGUST 9 / 10 / 11 2013
[MORNING TO LATE AFTERNOON]
SHOW DATES:
MONDAY & TUESDAY AUGUST
12 & 13 2013
[MORNING TO LATE AFTERNOON]
FYI:
SOME TALENT THAT ARE CHOSEN TO DO
PREP DATE SUNDAY
AUGUST 11 MAY BE ASKED TO MAKE A
SHORT TIME STAGE APPERANCE DURING PREP &
WILL RECEIVE A ADDITIONAL $ 50.00 BONUS IN ADDITION TO THERE REGULAR PAY
RATE ABOVE . TO CLARIFY SUNDAY
AUGUST 11 2013 IS NOT A SHOW DATE.
RATES:
$1,050.00 LESS Agenct Fee 3 PREP DATES &
2 SHOW DATES
$900.00 LESS Agency Fee [ 2 PREP DATES &
2 SHOW DATES
$750.00 LESS Agency Fee 3 PREP DATES &
1 SHOW DATE
$ 750.00 LESS Agency Fee 1 PREP DATE &
2 SHOW DATES
$450.00 LESS Agency Fee 1 PREP DATE &
1 SHOW DATE [sarcasm] As you can see, this type of work doesn't pay much, you'll earn allot more doing TFP with the photographers that tell you that you're too short to be with an agency and you gotta get naked to make any money modeling. [/sarcasm]
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
1. It's a hair show
2. You're cherry picking a favorite topic IMHO. There are always exceptions to the rules, but exactly how many exceptions are there?
edit-Should read "favorite topic/agenda of yours"
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
It's a hair show and your right it doesn't pay squat; no sarcasim required. At best if those were only 8 hour days it's $28/hr or about $4/hr more then new photographers pay newer models. More than likely those or 10-12 hour days
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9271
Oakland, California, US
Oh wow a shitty hair show.
Ya I have done one of those, let me think back on the break down.
Go to casting & pay to park:
3 hours
-10.00
Go to event & pay to park again get your hair destroyed & face dye stained:
5 hours
-10.00
Pay someone else to get hair fixed.
2 hours
-50.00
Get check 2 weeks later +120.00
1 hour
So 11 hours gets you a net of 50.00
At least this was when gas was only 2.75 a gallon.
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4861
Asheville, North Carolina, US
My god, you don't mean to tell me that someone could be paid for hair modeling that isn't 5"10"? Next you'll tell me that someone cast for a pair of hands without a height consideration. Or that webcam companies don't ask about height.
Good point though, and not a bad idea to add them all to the advice.
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20621
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Cherrystone wrote:
1. It's a hair show
2. You're cherry picking a favorite topic IMHO. There are always exceptions to the rules, but exactly how many exceptions are there? If I didn't already toss out the casting, I would have posted one from last month. It as an ad campaign from the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority... you may not have heard of it, after all it seems as though nowbody ever has seen their "What Happens Here Stays Here" advertising campaign that they came up with a few years ago.
In any case, the same agent recruited for their latest ads. A few not so tall models that I know were booked (I don't know their exact height, but I'm only 5'6" and I have to bend down when getting a hug from 'em). I think the pay was about a grand a day (print and broadcast spots).
Of course, listening to MM photographers saying "those are low rates" and "that's only a little more than a MM photographer would pay a model" is a great way to rationalize belief in the myths.
... and btw, the parking is free.
Photographer
Dan Howell
Posts: 3563
Kerhonkson, New York, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
Of course, listening to MM photographers saying "those are low rates" and "that's only a little more than a MM photographer would pay a model" is a great way to rationalize belief in the myths. And highlighting one modeling gig that doesn't have a height requirement vs. the literally hundreds of ones that do could be said to be rationalizing the myth that shorter models have equal opportunities.
I find that far more distorted.
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
If I didn't already toss out the casting, I would have posted one from last month. It as an ad campaign from the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority... you may not have heard of it, after all it seems as though nowbody ever has seen their "What Happens Here Stays Here" advertising campaign that they came up with a few years ago.
In any case, the same agent recruited for their latest ads. A few not so tall models that I know were booked (I don't know their exact height, but I'm only 5'6" and I have to bend down when getting a hug from 'em). I think the pay was about a grand a day (print and broadcast spots).
Of course, listening to MM photographers saying "those are low rates" and "that's only a little more than a MM photographer would pay a model" is a great way to rationalize belief in the myths.
... and btw, the parking is free. Yes sometimes there are hair shows that book models that are not Fashion agency standard. Often A-list models are not willing to cut, color or dye their hair because it can affect their bookability and they are not allowed to make major changes to their look without getting approval from their agencies first.
For the hair shows the agencies here ( read talent agencies or commercial agencies will post castings on their facebook walls for models that are not signed with their agency to do the hair shows. I personally know a girl on here that they were only going to sign for extra work and hair shows and she had to sign an exclusive for hair shows. She declined
I can give you a list of the big 5 in Miami that won't even look at models of under a certain height. I can give you some talent agencies that don't much care. I know some agencies that have pretty decent agencies that have some 5' 6" models on their books but let me tell you -- they are outstanding and usually pretty young too.
But if you want to be a " Fashion" model or a runway model height and stats count.
Mall fashion shows don't count. Small town or non-paid shows don't count either.
But to tell a 5'2" model she has a chance at changing the industry -- you're blowing smoke.
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
They only hire tall, young, and gorgeous models.
If you want to believe the MYTH, go on and continue not doing what you're doing. It does happen and some agencies do hire shorter models. It's just not the norm in the fashion industry. In some other industries, height or age are not as important.
A myth is an invented story or an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. In this case it's not a myth, it's a majority.
It doesn't mean anyone should give up on their dreams. Just keep one foot in reality (as with any dream).
I'm happy that opportunities, such as the one you posted, exist for models of all types. Some of my favorite models to shoot, do not fit into the traditional height/age bracket.
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
chadsimages wrote:
It does happen and some agencies do hire shorter models. It's just not the norm in the fashion industry. In some other industries, height or age are not as important.
A myth is an invented story or an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. In this case it's not a myth, it's a majority.
It doesn't mean anyone should give up on their dreams. Just keep one foot in reality (as with any dream).
I'm happy that opportunities, such as the one you posted, exist for models of all types. Some of my favorite models to shoot, do not fit into the traditional height/age bracket. +1
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
They only hire tall, young, and gorgeous models.
If you want to believe the MYTH, go on and continue not doing what you're doing.
In the meantime, if you sign up at a REAL licensed agency, you'll probably get casting calls like this: //snip//
[sarcasm] As you can see, this type of work doesn't pay much, you'll earn allot more doing TFP with the photographers that tell you that you're too short to be with an agency and you gotta get naked to make any money modeling. [/sarcasm] Rright... there are hair models, part models and one of the most famous handmodels, right here:
![https://theskiny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Zoolander-700x400-with-cuts-copy.jpg]()
There is also no height, or even looks requirement!
So, since there are no longer requirements for height and figure... why don't you just sent those models to NY... the castings for the various fashion week events in September are about to start.
[sarcasm]Great for busting the myth and giving shawties hope again![/sarcasm]
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Apples and oranges.
There are craigslist ads providing casting calls for garage porn. No experience required.
I quote from a recent ad:
______________
no experience required modeling work open now to beginner type female models
very easy work instructions given throughout shoot only takes a couple hours of your time $1200 per shoot same day cash pay on going work available to female models who excel in first shoot please reply with a few recent photos of yourself to be considered for hire! must be 18-24 with photo id!
_____________
Of course, this isn't what those fashion-dreaming short girls are looking for either...
Photographer
picturephotos
Posts: 521
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
As a photographer who shoots a lot of hair, I can tell you that legitimate fashion model agencies will never let their models have their hair cut and coloured for these shows, so this agency appears to be a huge exception to the rule, catering to a very niche market. Whenever I'm hired to shoot hair for competitions, the models are more often than not someone's short, curvy cousin, who wouldn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell of being signed. Whenever agencies are discussed on MM, it's never about this sort of thing, but nice job demonstrating your bias and lack of knowledge on how the mainstream fashion agency business works, OP. Case in point: Agencies do not "hire" models, third-party clients do. Agencies promote their commodity (the models they've signed) and negotiate transactions with said clients, in exchange for a percentage for these jobs. So at least you got one thing right, in the thread title: Agencies don't hire models — no matter what they look like. SayCheeZ! wrote:
Of course, listening to MM photographers saying "those are low rates" and "that's only a little more than a MM photographer would pay a model" is a great way to rationalize belief in the myths. These are low rates, considering that it takes a while to grow out cuts and let hair heal from all the bleaching and colouring. But they are actually fairly standard rates for NAHA, Contessa and Mirrors (in Canada), L'Oreal Color Trophy, and other live events.
The only "myth" being bandied around this thread is contained in your OP. The misinformation in your argument is as old as dirt, but thankfully most models on MM are smart enough to know better.
chadsimages wrote:
It does happen and some agencies do hire shorter models. It's just not the norm in the fashion industry. In some other industries, height or age are not as important.
A myth is an invented story or an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. In this case it's not a myth, it's a majority.
It doesn't mean anyone should give up on their dreams. Just keep one foot in reality (as with any dream).
I'm happy that opportunities, such as the one you posted, exist for models of all types. Some of my favorite models to shoot, do not fit into the traditional height/age bracket. Well put. I would also reiterate that for most legitimate, mainstream fashion model agencies, short models (under 5'8") who do not have a marketable fashion look are not just the exception, they are exceptionally rare.
Over the years I have worked with hundreds of hair models, and perhaps a thousand or more fashion agency models. The former tend to understand that they do not possess the right look to become fashion models, so they are content to pursue whatever niche modeling that they're able to do, including hair modeling. They also tend to understand that they're not going to make big money, but they try to enjoy the experience nonetheless, and (unlike the OP) avoid harbouring unrealistic expectations or opinions.
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35440
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Haha. I'm not an agency model and did hair modeling once. Thought it would be fun... It was actually a very annoying experience. It was for a hair competition (2010 ABA Awards). I was supposed to get paid $50, but that was a lie.
I much prefer shooting nudes. By very far.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
udor wrote:
There is also no height, or even looks requirement! Exactly! I'm chatting from time to time with hair stylists who do these shows - this is exactly right.
How someone could equate this to requirements for fashion agencies is beyond me.
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 469
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)
so I guess we're all going to dance around the elephant in the room?
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Dan Howell wrote:
And highlighting one modeling gig that doesn't have a height requirement vs. the literally hundreds of ones that do could be said to be rationalizing the myth that shorter models have equal opportunities.
I find that far more distorted. +1
I think a monkey (or his agent) got paid to be in a movie once but that doesn't mean monkeys have equal opportunities in the acting profession!
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18763
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium
it's a hair show. of course they'll hire a short model.
You just have to be willing to take the chance of going in with long brown curly hair and walking out with a blonde/hotpink mohawk.
I know very little agency models who do hairshows (except hairshows where it's really more about updo and stuff, like bridal), exactly because you can drastically change your look with it, and that makes absolutely no sense when you're doing other work besides hairshows.
also, when short models ask if they can be signed with an agency, they're talking about fashion agencies. Big difference from talent agencies (which is what your post is. hence why they call the people they're looking for "talents) or a casting agency, or a promotional agency...
Photographer
Philipe
Posts: 5302
Pomona, California, US
SayCheeZ! wrote:
If I didn't already toss out the casting, I would have posted one from last month. It as an ad campaign from the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority... you may not have heard of it, after all it seems as though nowbody ever has seen their "What Happens Here Stays Here" advertising campaign that they came up with a few years ago.
In any case, the same agent recruited for their latest ads. A few not so tall models that I know were booked (I don't know their exact height, but I'm only 5'6" and I have to bend down when getting a hug from 'em). I think the pay was about a grand a day (print and broadcast spots).
Of course, listening to MM photographers saying "those are low rates" and "that's only a little more than a MM photographer would pay a model" is a great way to rationalize belief in the myths.
... and btw, the parking is free. I do hair.
And I can say, that is very low for a hair ad campaign..
Very low..
When doing makeup for the Joico spiker ads (Anthony Morrison did the hair) they hired some kid from San Diego (from an agency) he got and $5,000
I also did makeup for another Joico ad campaign about seven years ago (Damien Carney and Anthony Morrison were doing hair as well as others)
Anyways the model was Kate Nauta she got around $8,000 -$10,000.00.
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4861
Asheville, North Carolina, US
MC Seoul Photography wrote:
so I guess we're all going to dance around the elephant in the room? The respondents seem direct to me, but I could be missing something. If you see elephants, then, go ahead and get your big game gun out and start shooting
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11798
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Op, you should have prefaced that with "fashion". Talent agencies hire girls under 5"8 on a regular basis
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 469
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)
Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
The respondents seem direct to me, but I could be missing something. If you see elephants, then, go ahead and get your big game gun out and start shooting I'd hate to speak out of turn, but
The respondents are direct...
and more or less universal in their tone and message...
so let's go have a look at who posted this and the position they are in..
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
Attractive women of every height can always make money. There will always be promo work or beauty work or hair shows or other things they can do. Sadly there usually doesn't seem to be consistent work and a lot of what's offered doesn't pay all that well. The majority of paid non nude modeling work is commercial and catalog and while commercial models can be a bit under 5'7" most aren't. There are standards in every industry and yes there are a few shorter models working, most fit that standard. Nothing wrong with short models having fun with this. There is something wrong when some see posts like this and truly believe that if they just work hard enough or spend some cash on a solid portfolio they will work. No names but I know a shooter who charges a lot of cash who shot a short model who I knew had little chance of being signed by anyone other then a portfolio mill. This woman should be using the over a grand she paid this man for rent or food or clothes. Anything that could actually help her. Not on a lie. Not on a bs dream and certainly not when she would likely never make any of her money back. At least once a month a petite model dashes in and tells us how she is going to make it or that agencies are looking at her. Very, very few actually ever do anything beyond mall or bar fashion shows or handing out samples or key chains at events. A few of our members like Angel Tara: https://www.modelmayhem.com/3211 have worked but she is a exceptional beauty. That doesn't mean if you're a petite model you shouldn't try. It does mean understand the industry. Be practical and honest. Access your chances honestly and not based on goofs on Facebook, here or those fake agencies who want your money.
Photographer
LaurensAntoine 4 FHM
Posts: 362
San Diego, California, US
That's such an incredibly disturbing post. I hope none puts any stock into it.
Model
GingerMuse
Posts: 369
STUDIO CITY, California, US
chadsimages wrote:
It does happen and some agencies do hire shorter models. It's just not the norm in the fashion industry. In some other industries, height or age are not as important.
A myth is an invented story or an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. In this case it's not a myth, it's a majority.
It doesn't mean anyone should give up on their dreams. Just keep one foot in reality (as with any dream).
I'm happy that opportunities, such as the one you posted, exist for models of all types. Some of my favorite models to shoot, do not fit into the traditional height/age bracket. +1000!
perfectly stated.
of course there are OUTLIERS, but it's not a myth. it's fantastic if someone shorter breaks into the industry, but it's not common, nor is it common for a decent MODELING agency to sign short models. Should that dissuade a short model from TRYING? If they love it and are passionate, go for it!!! but like it says above, keep one foot in reality...
Photographer
Model Mentor Studio
Posts: 1359
Saint Catharines-Niagara, Ontario, Canada
One really hot girl had sex with me once.....that unfortunately did not lead to a line up of others.
Photographer
dvwrght
Posts: 1300
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Agencies don't hire models - that's not how it works. You've got it all wrong.
You also don't just "sign up at a real licensed agency."
Yeah, short models are NEVER hired by an agency...
They only hire tall, young, and gorgeous models.
If you want to believe the MYTH, go on and continue not doing what you're doing.
In the meantime, if you sign up at a REAL licensed agency, you'll probably get casting calls like this:
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
dave phoenix wrote:
Agencies don't hire models - that's not how it works. You've got it all wrong.
You also don't just "sign up at a real licensed agency."
Yeah, short models are NEVER hired by an agency...
They only hire tall, young, and gorgeous models.
If you want to believe the MYTH, go on and continue not doing what you're doing.
In the meantime, if you sign up at a REAL licensed agency, you'll probably get casting calls like this: Exactly but I think that just goes to prove that elephant in the room MC was talking about...
MC Seoul Photography wrote:
so I guess we're all going to dance around the elephant in the room? Yes it appears we are... again
Clothing Designer
Atelier Benson
Posts: 2019
Detroit, Michigan, US
Not that i even know what the Hell a "Gatekeeper" is, but should a "titular" MM member be spreading such patently false and misleading propaganda?
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Atelier Benson wrote:
Not that i even know what the Hell a "Gatekeeper" is, but should a "titular" MM member be spreading such patently false and misleading propaganda? A gatekeeper is supposed to review all new applicants to MM to ensure their submission meets the requirements put forth by IB at that time. In exchange for this volunteer work they get a VIP profile at no cost (or used to).
These requirements change at times, but you may recall them from the page when you joined. Things like 4 images, no selfies, clear and in focus.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Atelier Benson wrote:
Not that i even know what the Hell a "Gatekeeper" is, but should a "titular" MM member be spreading such patently false and misleading propaganda? To quote my friend Ronald Tan:-
[REDACTED]
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 469
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)
AJScalzitti wrote:
A gatekeeper is supposed to review all new applicants to MM to ensure their submission meets the requirements put forth by IB at that time. In exchange for this volunteer work they get a VIP profile at no cost (or used to).
These requirements change at times, but you may recall them from the page when you joined. Things like 4 images, no selfies, clear and in focus. I guess that's the issue I see. They are essentially controlling who does and doesn't get in here, but at the same time, they're making that kind of post.. beyond volunteering is there no vetting process?
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
people should NEVER plan their life around SLIM chances of success
ive been HIRED and paid damn good money to walk on several runways and i'm 5'3" but im a killer business women, have an iron clad reputation in my circles, and am a great networker....
i would never give other gals my height false expectations based on a couple instances of opportunities when i know that there were thousands more closed doors in that same arena to me...
i dont like it when people try to talk anyone out of anything because its not the NORM or their chance is slim to be successful as there is always achance to be an exception, however i dont think there should be white knights trying to spread false hope either for a market that clearly is heavily swayed in its requirements.
both topics on either spectrum do the community and its members a disservice
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Cherrystone wrote:
1. It's a hair show
2. You're cherry picking a favorite topic IMHO. There are always exceptions to the rules, but exactly how many exceptions are there?
edit-Should read "favorite topic/agenda of yours" agreed
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
personally I think it should be incumbent upon those who work for this site - to post generally useful information
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Garry k wrote:
personally I think it should be incumbent upon those who work for this site - to post generally useful information But then who decides that? I'm sure the OP thinks this to be very useful information. 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4861
Asheville, North Carolina, US
MC Seoul Photography wrote:
I guess that's the issue I see. They are essentially controlling who does and doesn't get in here, but at the same time, they're making that kind of post.. beyond volunteering is there no vetting process? Ah, I understand now. The un-collegial tone, unsupported conclusions and sweeping and inaccurate generalizations in the op seem to carry some official imprinter due to the prominent gatekeeper identification.
Yes, that does seem to be problematic
Photographer
LaurensAntoine 4 FHM
Posts: 362
San Diego, California, US
Garry k wrote:
personally I think it should be incumbent upon those who work for this site - to post generally useful information Now that I see that, I have the exact same issue. The post has several grotesquely inaccurate insinuations to it that can be very damaging if used as part of their decision making process.
I could go on and on, but I'm not here to bash anyone. This should be deleted.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
One really hot girl had sex with me once.....that unfortunately did not lead to a line up of others. Ain't that the truth.
If you ever figure it out, please PM me.
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