That Italian Guy wrote:
From what I've seen as an observer, most models tend to work harder on paid shoots because it's actually work rather than something they feel will benefit them or will create some art they'll be proud of.

That said, it's also pretty obvious that most people will tend to put in more effort when they're personally invested in the outcome, as is more usually the case with TF shoots.







Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

So very true.

That Italian Guy wrote:
That said, it's also pretty obvious that most people will tend to put in more effort when they're personally invested in the outcome, as is more usually the case with TF shoots.

Thank you for your input, I do agree with this.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
to me it makes no difference; paid or tf. I will give it my all.

The difference however, for me, is that with TF shoots it's usually concepts that I helped come up with, a team that I really admire, shots that I've been wanting to do for quite some time... Where as paid is usually not very benefical to my portfolio (hence the payment). So the personal motivation is different.

But as far as professionality (showing up on time & prepared) and results go; I'll work just as hard!

This exactly.

H A Z E wrote:
Having shot with TF and paid models on the same day, I couldn't help but notice that the models doing TF worked harder.  Now thinking back, the majority of TF models I have worked with have turned up on time and ready to work, willing to stay behind to help out and simply work with me to get the results.  Whereas most paid models have turned up late and want to leave early, want constant breaks, refuse TF but demand/expect high res or RAW files, and just simply have something to moan about all the time. Of course there are some exceptions.

When I am experimenting or updating my port I don't personally mind if I pay or do TF.  I did think that paying a model would spare me any hassle so that I can focus on what i want to achieve and not have to worry about anything else but I now find that paying models seem to be generating more hassle for me.

What are others experiencing?

Quite honestly, all the models that I have worked with (whether paid or tf) has worked their asses off in front of the camera.

Christ, several years ago, I even had one show up with a damn fever because she wanted to work with me so bad and was refusing to let a fever get to her (I ended up sending her home though, poor thing.).

H A Z E wrote:
Having shot with TF and paid models on the same day, I couldn't help but notice that the models doing TF worked harder.  Now thinking back, the majority of TF models I have worked with have turned up on time and ready to work, willing to stay behind to help out and simply work with me to get the results.  Whereas most paid models have turned up late and want to leave early, want constant breaks, refuse TF but demand/expect high res or RAW files, and just simply have something to moan about all the time. Of course there are some
When I am experimenting or updating my port I don't personally mind if I pay or do TF.  I did think that paying a model would spare me any hassle so that I can focus on what i want to achieve and not have to worry about anything else but I now find that paying models seem to be generating more hassle for
me.
What are others experiencing?

Ive been lucky and I try to weed out the ones who are all about the money who are counting the minutes to get the max for least amount work.  Ive Tend to do TF a lot more, as i am always finding new, inexperience, models and need to teach them. That tends to take my time. They are trying to build up experience and a Portfolio.or photos and videos for their own site. I enjoy these shoots better as I don't have to worry as much about the time and Money ! TF they seem much more excited about it . When they have experience, I always pay them. I Know that they are going to show up on time, and be ready to go, since i have worked with them before!
  I do have one Beauty who is always late,(She gets lost on the way to the shoot) always takes forever to get ready, but is very good once she is ready She is stunner so I schedule others, to work while she is primping ! I also let her know her time starts when she is in front of the camera. So it works out in the end! Victoria

Catnapping wrote:
A model with a good work ethic that is invested in the project at hand performs well, paid or TF, in my experience.

A model with a poor work ethic that would rather be doing something else doesn't do that great of a job, paid or TF, in my experience.

+1

Koryn Locke wrote:
At least with paid shoots, I KNOW I'm going to be getting fair compensation afterward. With trade, it's basically a gamble.

ontherocks wrote:
it's almost backwards in a way. the guys who pay would be the ones who could get images back to you on a trade shoot (and maybe they already provide images along with compensation). whereas the trade guys are maybe just in it to hang with a model in which case they should be the ones paying for the companionship.

the trade shooters i know (including myself) do get images to the models although sometimes it can take a bit (which is why i dropbox them a full session gallery after the shoot).

to me not getting images back to a model within a reasonable amount of time (at least without a good explanation) should be a violation of the site rules same as soliciting for adult work or any other violation that could get you banned. or maybe they need a three strikes type of thing.

well the thing is, most of the people who pay you, it's because you don't want or can't use their photos in your portfolio. I get a lot of solicitations for TFP from people who talk about how good they are about getting images to the models they shoot with. That's all fine and good but most of these folks have a very limited skill set, flat lighting, and work of a quality that would actually drag down an experienced model's portfolio, rather than enhance it. So ultimately, it doesn't matter whether the people who would pay you are also the people who would follow through with returning images

That Italian Guy wrote:
That said, it's also pretty obvious that most people will tend to put in more effort when they're personally invested in the outcome, as is more usually the case with TF shoots.

I'm personally invested in the outcome of all my shoots, as my desired outcome, or at least the proof of it, would be to be hired again.

But then my dad left when I was young so I have a desperate need for reassurance from older, male figures :p

H A Z E wrote:
Having shot with TF and paid models on the same day, I couldn't help but notice that the models doing TF worked harder.  Now thinking back, the majority of TF models I have worked with have turned up on time and ready to work, willing to stay behind to help out and simply work with me to get the results.  Whereas most paid models have turned up late and want to leave early, want constant breaks, refuse TF but demand/expect high res or RAW files, and just simply have something to moan about all the time. Of course there are some exceptions.

When I am experimenting or updating my port I don't personally mind if I pay or do TF.  I did think that paying a model would spare me any hassle so that I can focus on what i want to achieve and not have to worry about anything else but I now find that paying models seem to be generating more hassle for me.

What are others experiencing?

I give my best to both pair or tf. The tf is something I usually want to do or planned in advance and the paid is something that will give me a paycheck later. Doesn't make sense to slack on either.

LightFeatherRetouch wrote:
In my personal experience as a photographer, I feel that there are many shades of gray. However I don't think motivation comes from money, mostly comes from if she believes in what you are doing or not:

Case 1) Model believes in your work, and she is there because she wants to (unpaid).

Case 2) Model believes in your work, and she is getting paid (double motivation).

Case 3) Model thinks you suck and she just came to get the money.

At the end of the day, even if you buy a models time, you don't necessarily buy her motivation...

This. I couldn't have articulated it better myself!

K I C K H A M wrote:
Sounds like you're paying the wrong models.


Why don't you use the girls you know and like for your paid shoots?

This!

I work hard for my shoots it doesn't matter if it is paid or not.

That Italian Guy wrote:
From what I've seen as an observer, most models tend to work harder on paid shoots because it's actually work rather than something they feel will benefit them or will create some art they'll be proud of.

That said, it's also pretty obvious that most people will tend to put in more effort when they're personally invested in the outcome, as is more usually the case with TF shoots.







Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

Commissioned or non commissioned the same effort should be put in.
Every professional outside of MM (MM being a world to it self) will agree with my statement.

K I C K H A M wrote:
Sounds like you're paying the wrong models.


Why don't you use the girls you know and like for your paid shoots?

+1
The models whose work impressed me on earlier TF shoots are the first ones that I ring when a commercial job comes along. I'm seldom disappointed, and find the collaborative working relationship only gets better bc we know and trust each other.