Caitin Bre wrote:
I stay very busy. because I make it that way. Not waiting for anyone. Not doing it the way anyone says it should be or has to be. If a model did it the way a lot say it should be on MM. They would starve.

Caitin Bre wrote:
For you to make a condescending statement like this you obviously do not know what the word modeling means. Or you are very narrowly defining it based on what you think it is or want it to be.

I'm just going to point out that the person you said this ^^ to is virtually legendary in the world of traveling internet models.

Back in the day, she helped pave the way for the rest of us.

kthnxbye

/commentary

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

I have not heard of any art nude model making $60K per month.   I can see if that model is lucky for that month, she might be making $60K for that month only but eventually, you can't be making $60K/month consistently even for a famous/high end escort.

You keep doing your calculations assuming that a model is working 5 day work weeks all month every month. That's unrealistic, very very few models work whole weeks. Sometimes, like when we're traveling, we'll book full weeks, but then we go back home and don't have anything booked for a week or more, or we go back to one or two day weeks.

Caitin Bre wrote:

Ha most people here also pretend that they are big photographers in some imaginary Industry.
I am a freelance model. Do not confuse that with a fashion industry model. 2 entirely different worlds.
Most here do very much confuse the 2.
MM has very very small number of fashion industry pros on it. It is mostly freelance. But yet fashion wannabe's are constantly trying to push so called industry standards on to this site.
For you to make a condescending statement like this you obviously do not know what the word modeling means. Or you are very narrowly defining it based on what you think it is or want it to be.
I can tell you this. I get paid to model. The people who pay me are photographers that call me a model. I work projects that the call is for a model. So sorry I don't fit in your definition.
MM is a melting pot of people that have a passion for art and photography. There are no standard only experiences and opinions.
You go ahead and ignore the truth about the freelance world. I will keep working and making money in it like I have been since I was 18. Call it what ever you want to. But its modeling no matter if you like it or not.

So please do tell everyone what the definition of a Model is?

I don't think anyone has made the mistake of confusing you for working in the fashion industry.

Caitin Bre wrote:

How much has the price of traveling gone up in the last 4 years do you think? 10 years? Gas has gone up by 2 to 3 bucks a gallon. And everything else has followed. Why shouldn't a model be expected to raise her price to match the costs going up?

Funny you mentioned that.  If you look at the salary increase vs standard of living.  Everything else has gone up except salary.  The salary has been pretty steadily 1.5 to 3 percent increase every year.  However, household items and other expenses, i.e. gas, etc has been increased a lot more.

Laura UnBound wrote:
You keep doing your calculations assuming that a model is working 5 day work weeks all month every month. That's unrealistic, very very few models work whole weeks. Sometimes, like when we're traveling, we'll book full weeks, but then we go back home and don't have anything booked for a week or more, or we go back to one or two day weeks.

Exactly that is what I am trying to point out.  If you look at the first page, several stated models stated that they get paid $800/day steady.  One even mentioned that a model can make $60K/month.   My point is that it doesn't.  modeling is about look, time, luck, and who you know.

The problem with some of the statement here stating that modeling can charge $100 to $200 per hour is nonsense.  Just because a model willing to be naked does not necessary means that others willing to pay $100/hour.

  On average, modeling do not make a lot of money if one is to consider salary per year.  There are few that get extremely high pay but those are few and their modeling career don't last that long.

Laura UnBound wrote:
You keep doing your calculations assuming that a model is working 5 day work weeks all month every month. That's unrealistic, very very few models work whole weeks. Sometimes, like when we're traveling, we'll book full weeks, but then we go back home and don't have anything booked for a week or more, or we go back to one or two day weeks.

Same with photographers.

Caitin Bre wrote:
Ha most people here also pretend that they are big photographers in some imaginary Industry.
I am a freelance model. Do not confuse that with a fashion industry model. 2 entirely different worlds.
Most here do very much confuse the 2.
MM has very very small number of fashion industry pros on it. It is mostly freelance. But yet fashion wannabe's are constantly trying to push so called industry standards on to this site.
For you to make a condescending statement like this you obviously do not know what the word modeling means. Or you are very narrowly defining it based on what you think it is or want it to be.
I can tell you this. I get paid to model. The people who pay me are photographers that call me a model. I work projects that the call is for a model. So sorry I don't fit in your definition.
MM is a melting pot of people that have a passion for art and photography. There are no standard only experiences and opinions.
You go ahead and ignore the truth about the freelance world. I will keep working and making money in it like I have been since I was 18. Call it what ever you want to. But its modeling no matter if you like it or not.

So please do tell everyone what the definition of a Model is?

Laura UnBound wrote:
I don't think anyone has made the mistake of confusing you for working in the fashion industry.

Even more confusing is how I could be confused as working in the fashion industry...
No wait I did win a grant award for a "fashion" art installation in 2012...
(It was still based on nudity)

Damn I'm good.

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Exactly that is what I am trying to point out.  If you look at the first page, several stated models stated that they get paid $800/day steady.  One even mentioned that a model can make $60K/month.   My point is that it doesn't.  modeling is about look, time, luck, and who you know.

The problem with some of the statement here stating that modeling can charge $100 to $200 per hour is non sense.  Just because a model willing to be naked does not necessary means that others willing to pay $100/hour.

  On average, modeling do not make a lot of money if one is to consider salary per year.  There are few that get extremely high pay but those are few and their modeling career don't last that long.

If I say that I steadily make 100/hour I'm not implying that every single hour of every day I'm making 100 bucks. I'm saying that *when* I book work, its usually for 100/hour. I could be working two times a week, I could be working two times a month, doesn't matter, my statement is still correct. Easily misleading to someone who doesn't pick it apart like that....but still correct.


The statement that some models can charge 100+ an hour isn't nonsense, because they can and they do and they get paid. ALL models can't, just any random model can't, that much is true.

Caitin Bre wrote:
There you have the difference. I am a freelance model. Anyone looking for a model is a client.
I will shoot with anyone who is willing to pay my rates. That Is respectful. And Is safe.
If someone decided they want to be a photographer and wants to see if they like shooting a model. No problem. That's my Job. How is modeling for them any different than modeling for a pro? The only difference is the beginner asks a lot of questions and I don't mind answering them.
There is just as many creepers that are pro as there is that are beginners. So really that argument is a wash.
I actually find beginners fun to work with and in many cases much more respectful. Eager to learn and excited about photography. They haven't developed that arrogant, pampas, condescending attitude yet. Uh huh You know what Attitude I am talking about.

no my argument is not a wash because i never said what you are arguing.....

i never said anything about creepers or pros, i said BAD WORK is BAD WORK no matter what they pay, and Im not willing to accept cash for shite work just to have cash.

go on about your business, since you don't seem to understand my point

and i do mean business in the nicest cash making way possible

Caitin Bre wrote:
Ha most people here also pretend that they are big photographers in some imaginary Industry.
I am a freelance model. Do not confuse that with a fashion industry model. 2 entirely different worlds.
Most here do very much confuse the 2.
MM has very very small number of fashion industry pros on it. It is mostly freelance. But yet fashion wannabe's are constantly trying to push so called industry standards on to this site.
For you to make a condescending statement like this you obviously do not know what the word modeling means. Or you are very narrowly defining it based on what you think it is or want it to be.
I can tell you this. I get paid to model. The people who pay me are photographers that call me a model. I work projects that the call is for a model. So sorry I don't fit in your definition.
MM is a melting pot of people that have a passion for art and photography. There are no standard only experiences and opinions.
You go ahead and ignore the truth about the freelance world. I will keep working and making money in it like I have been since I was 18. Call it what ever you want to. But its modeling no matter if you like it or not.

So please do tell everyone what the definition of a Model is?

She knows exactly what modeling means!  She used to be an extremely successful model!   

18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/0 … 8d547b.jpg

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Exactly that is what I am trying to point out.  If you look at the first page, several stated models stated that they get paid $800/day steady.  One even mentioned that a model can make $60K/month.   My point is that it doesn't.  modeling is about look, time, luck, and who you know.

The problem with some of the statement here stating that modeling can charge $100 to $200 per hour is nonsense.  Just because a model willing to be naked does not necessary means that others willing to pay $100/hour.

  On average, modeling do not make a lot of money if one is to consider salary per year.  There are few that get extremely high pay but those are few and their modeling career don't last that long.

There are many who pay $100/hour for a good experienced model!

Laura UnBound wrote:
The statement that some models can charge 100+ an hour isn't nonsense, because they can and they do and they get paid. ALL models can't, just any random model can't, that much is true.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

She knows exactly what modeling means!  She used to be an extremely successful model!   

18+
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/0 … 8d547b.jpg

I was responding to her statement she made. She said I am not a model.

ontherocks wrote:
but do you think the OP can get that in her local market? i think that's how this thread started anyway. basically it's a "how much am i worth" thread. and the answer seems to range all the way from zero to $800/day.

Absolutely not, I've seen very otherwise successful and experienced models struggle to get those rates in this market. Which is why I said all models can't, just any random model can't.


Canada is a lot different for freelance modeling, and I think a lot of people don't understand that. They think any big city is going to be comparable to NYC or LA in terms of how much work and what type of work and how much it's going to pay! and that's simply not true here. While Toronto is certainly plentiful in the arts scene, the market is lower, the model selection is different and smaller, and we don't get travelers the way the us does. It's not like the north east where you can take a 5 dollar bus and hit any combo of 1-6 major cities with thriving markets in a matter of hours. The next big city from here is Montreal and that's 7 hours away. The full time traveling model just doesn't exist the way it does in the states. Which means the markets can stay low, they've got the same models day in and day out, same photographers, same people working together over and over. Which in a way isn't so bad, if you can arrange multiple frequent collaborations, lower rates but guaranteed frequency makes up for that high rate other models need to cover their asses during the dead periods. If you can't work that angle though then yeah, you feel like you're doing too much for too little and American cities seem like way better targets.

It's largely the same issue that arises when dealing with the European market. Their rates are much lower and any American models who travel over there and don't adjust their rates for that don't book work, they get laughed at for being absurdly high priced.


Self-worth and what your market perceives your worth as are two totally different things. It's great when they actually line up and can often be a kick in the teeth when they don't, but that's just a fact of freelancing.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Self-worth and what your market perceives your worth as are two totally different things. It's great when they actually line up and can often be a kick in the teeth when they don't, but that's just a fact of freelancing.

Brooks Ayola wrote:
God, I love/hate this place. :-)

Its Awesome aint it

Koryn Locke wrote:

I'm just going to point out that the person you said this ^^ to is virtually legendary in the world of traveling internet models.

Back in the day, she helped pave the way for the rest of us.

kthnxbye

/commentary

Then why would she make a statement that I am not a model. What have I been doing for 26 years then if its not modeling? I asked for her to define what a model is if what I am is not.

Laura UnBound wrote:
It's largely the same issue that arises when dealing with the European market. Their rates are much lower and any American models who travel over there and don't adjust their rates for that don't book work, they get laughed at for being absurdly high priced.

that's exactly why I mostly shoot in Eastern Europe during summer seasons booking a budget flight JFK-MOW for about $300 (2 cameras and 5 lenses fit nicely your carry-on -- no clothes, tooth brushes and other frivolous stuff ), and renting a nice roomy living studio with all light equipment for peanuts (I own two in two different countries). plus, you can shoot with potential starlets not yet consumed by NYC scouting agents.

Caitin Bre wrote:
How much has the price of traveling gone up in the last 4 years do you think? 10 years? Gas has gone up by 2 to 3 bucks a gallon. And everything else has followed. Why shouldn't a model be expected to raise her price to match the costs going up?

Why would anyone think their cost of doing business means anything to the market and how much people are willing to pay for things?

As for onetherocks question, not the rates have not really changed in 4 years - if anything this record high unemployment has lowered them.

ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:

Exactly that is what I am trying to point out.  If you look at the first page, several stated models stated that they get paid $800/day steady.  One even mentioned that a model can make $60K/month.   My point is that it doesn't.  modeling is about look, time, luck, and who you know.

The problem with some of the statement here stating that modeling can charge $100 to $200 per hour is nonsense.  Just because a model willing to be naked does not necessary means that others willing to pay $100/hour.

  On average, modeling do not make a lot of money if one is to consider salary per year.  There are few that get extremely high pay but those are few and their modeling career don't last that long.

The US dept. of labor reports that the average model makes under $20.00 an hour.   Just because models are saying they make thousands a month doesn't make it true.   60k a month or 30k I don't believe for a minute.   Dancers don't make that.   I know a published Playboy girl here who is always looking for free places to crash when she travels.   One of the better known FORD models posted her wages for 2010 once.   $85,000.   She's been in Vogue, Harper's, Elle and Town & Country.   You are correct in saying that modeling in general doesn't pay that well.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Just because models are saying they make thousands a month doesn't make it true.   60k a month or 30k I don't believe for a minute.   Dancers don't make that. You are correct in saying that modeling in general doesn't pay that well.

+1.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

The US dept. of labor reports that the average model makes under $20.00 an hour.   Just because models are saying they make thousands a month doesn't make it true.   60k a month or 30k I don't believe for a minute.   Dancers don't make that.   I know a published Playboy girl here who is always looking for free places to crash when she travels.   One of the better known FORD models posted her wages for 2010 once.   $85,000.   She's been in Vogue, Harper's, Elle and Town & Country.   You are correct in saying that modeling in general doesn't pay that well.

If the models are so loaded I have to start hittn em up for loans
My near 10 yr old camera just died and I havent got the funds for replacement

Dan OMell wrote:

that's exactly why I mostly shoot in Eastern Europe during summer seasons booking a budget flight JFK-MOW for about $300 (2 cameras and 5 lenses fit nicely your carry-on -- no clothes, tooth brushes and other frivolous stuff ), and renting a nice roomy living studio with all light equipment for peanuts (I own two in two different countries). plus, you can shoot with potential starlets not yet consumed by NYC scouting agents.

You speak the local languages ? How do you connect with subjects ?

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
You speak the local languages ? How do you connect with subjects ?

yepp, I do. even if I didn't, many know basic English over there

Dan OMell wrote:

that's exactly why I mostly shoot in Eastern Europe during summer seasons booking a budget flight JFK-MOW for about $300 (2 cameras and 5 lenses fit nicely your carry-on -- no clothes, tooth brushes and other frivolous stuff ), and renting a nice roomy living studio with all light equipment for peanuts (I own two in two different countries). plus, you can shoot with potential starlets not yet consumed by NYC scouting agents.

Charlotte Douglas to JFK must cost more

May Sinclair wrote:
Shoot, how do I get in on this $800/shoot deal?

I typically earn between $50 and $100/hr for a 2-3 hour shoot.

I believe that you would need to get a bit more "into" your work... or maybe I have that the wrong way around...

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

There are many who pay $100/hour for a good experienced model!

Of course there are.  However, there are also photographers that don't.  And there are also those that willing to pay anything to get a girl naked.

AJScalzitti wrote:
Charlotte Douglas to JFK must cost more

actually, when you order ahead of time (2-3 months), the difference between JFK-MOW and CLT-MOW is less or equal to the cheapest fare (what you would spend on a terrible Greyhound bus) -- and you don't need to connect your flights yourself.

I  also created the screen scraping script monitoring the tickets online 24/7. but the combination of kayak.com + google.com works too. google made all tricky season manipulations by hub carriers totally transparent.

May Sinclair wrote:
Shoot, how do I get in on this $800/shoot deal?

I typically earn between $50 and $100/hr for a 2-3 hour shoot.

Requires a Terry R style shoot if ya know what I mean

Caitin Bre wrote:
What have I been doing for 26 years then if its not modeling?

We've been asking you the same thing for months, you've never once provided any substantial evidence to your claims, certainly not a portfolio that represents someone in the biz for that long. People might not call bullshit on your "info" so often if you actually had something to back it up, but you never seem interested in doing that, which just screams that it's not true.

You can't actually name someone making the kind of money you say they make, you just "know a person"
You don't actually show 20+ years of experience, you just expect people to be believe you because you said so
You don't actually show any of the amazing photos you've done, showcased any of the great photographers you've worked with, have anything to show for your incredibly successful 800/days or "good photos plus cash" negotiations, you just do a lot of talking.


We're all just waiting for you to walk the walk.




Also, she never said you weren't a model, she said that many people here would not consider you a model.

Samantha Barley wrote:
I'm unsure what I should be charging per hour.
I do partial nudes and full nudes.

thanks.

Don't ask us how much you should charge.
Ask yourself how much you want to charge.

Don't be dictated by the industry. Be different!

Laura UnBound wrote:

We've been asking you the same thing for months, you've never once provided any substantial evidence to your claims, certainly not a portfolio that represents someone in the biz for that long. People might not call bullshit on your "info" so often if you actually had something to back it up, but you never seem interested in doing that, which just screams that it's not true.

You can't actually name someone making the kind of money you say they make, you just "know a person"
You don't actually show 20+ years of experience, you just expect people to be believe you because you said so
You don't actually show any of the amazing photos you've done, showcased any of the great photographers you've worked with, have anything to show for your incredibly successful 800/days or "good photos plus cash" negotiations, you just do a lot of talking.


We're all just waiting for you to walk the walk.




Also, she never said you weren't a model, she said that many people here would not consider you a model.

Thank you Laura! Now, when are you coming to Buffalo?

Laura UnBound wrote:

We've been asking you the same thing for months, you've never once provided any substantial evidence to your claims, certainly not a portfolio that represents someone in the biz for that long. People might not call bullshit on your "info" so often if you actually had something to back it up, but you never seem interested in doing that, which just screams that it's not true.

You can't actually name someone making the kind of money you say they make, you just "know a person"
You don't actually show 20+ years of experience, you just expect people to be believe you because you said so
You don't actually show any of the amazing photos you've done, showcased any of the great photographers you've worked with, have anything to show for your incredibly successful 800/days or "good photos plus cash" negotiations, you just do a lot of talking.


We're all just waiting for you to walk the walk.




Also, she never said you weren't a model, she said that many people here would not consider you a model.

I agree.

ChanStudio wrote:

Of course there are.  However, there are also photographers that don't.  And there are also those that willing to pay anything to get a girl naked.

Those who don't want to pay usually have all the problems.  I have never had to persuade a model to pose nude.  There are many models who love to pose nude.