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Why do you like to test?
I find more photographers wanting to test that don't have too much experience more than the seasoned photographers. When it's in season, I know it's hard for the busy models to find time to test and want photographers to base shooting on their portfolio and conversations. Then there's agencies that only send you to test for development, workshops, networking and tears. Do you test? What do you think about testing? What do you get out of it? Sep 25 14 10:36 am Link There are a couple of agencies that I've done tests for. Ultimately, it's really an exercise in relationship building - solidifying the relationship between you (the photographer) and the agency, and developing relationships with the girls. Also it's the only way to get real portfolio development done. Even most editorial work today, unless commissioned by a major publication, is done gratis - and that's for all involved. If there is money involved, it usually just covers base costs. In the traditional brick and mortar world, the only models who would charge photographers were art models willing to pose naked at camera clubs for GWCs. To a lesser extent, quality art photographers were also a bit of a market, but honestly, most never had to pay - and that is still true today, except the internet has replaced the camera club. Same is true in reverse. Quality models don't pay photographers, at least not directly. If the model is new, and agency represented, the cost of her shoot will usually be put on her house account with the agency, if the agency doesn't have a relationship with a photographer willing to shoot her. If she's even a bit known, or just has the right look, there are plenty of good photographers willing to shoot her for free and build a relationship with her. It is the local portrait-mill shooters who make their living shooting low end portfolio work that charge the models. The internet caters to the low end - those models and photographers who are trying to make a living off of each other, because neither has third-party clients. Now, having said that, it also depends on if it's a real "test" session. I, for example, would never pay a model from here to do a beauty test shoot. However, if I'm working on a personal project and need a model for a full day, of what will likely be tedious work, just to get one shot that I need, that will not be suitable for their portfolio, then sure, I'll pay the model something (although often you'll find agencies that are willing to provide girls for your personal work as well, as long as you take a shot or two that they can use, which normally isn't very hard). Sep 25 14 10:47 am Link Testing is great for trying out new ideas and, for photographer's, new equipment. I still test when I have inspiring talent to work with. When the working chemistry is good, great images and video come out of it. Sep 25 14 11:18 am Link I don't test with agency models cause there's basically no agencies here but I'll 'test' with new girls or models I've never worked with before before we start doing some elaborate shoot. It helps me get a feel for what a model's pros and cons are so I can see what sort of looks will work best with her, beauty/fashion/whatever or if I wanna shoot with her again at all. Sometimes I test if I wanna experiment with something new, lighting/new backdrop/location ect. Or really if I'm just feeling lazy and just wanna shoot something clean and simple I'll do a test shoot. I've never had my basic shoots be a waste of time though. Pretty much all my tests result in something a model can use in her port (I think only once I didn't get anything great but I was having major model issues at that time, which is why you test). Sep 25 14 11:38 am Link I test all the time. I work with a couple agencies and some scouts. The point of testing for me is to further develop my skill in a low risk environment. When I shoot for paying clients there are generally solid expectations and little wiggle room. With a test I can get a bit experimental. It is also a great way to network and meet new folks in the industry. I run a rental studio so sometimes I will shoot with a model and if her and another photographer ever need a space to shoot in they will come to me. I am all for it. Sep 25 14 11:46 am Link I test all the time. As far as model photography goes, aside from the rare look-book, that's all I do. I'm pretty straightforward about it on my bio- "I'm here to learn, practice my photo skills, develop my vision and network and am looking for like minded individuals." Like Gio said, it's about building working relationships. Sometimes with the model, or maybe the MUA or maybe the booker at an agency. Hell, I can't tell you how many agency tests I've shot where I never would want to use the photos but the idea was to build with the booker to get better faces. Testing is like a musician practicing- it's a time to, yes, shoot some hopefully usable material but also a time to experiment and flex some creative muscles. When I hear a creative say they don't practice (unless they are hella busy), then I can be pretty sure they suck. For me personally, the biggest upside is learning to see faces, to refine my idea of a beautiful face and how to photograph it. Sep 25 14 12:01 pm Link Giacomo summed it up so well, I don't have to make this near as long. I've a long history of agency testing and still do it for all the reasons mentioned. However, over the past year or so I've started to get much more interest in testing from agency girls (particularly agency girls on MM) that the demand on my time is overwhelming compared to the time I have available. Some really strong girls that I hate to say no to (MM has almost encouraged saying no by adopted this false culture that responding with rates means the requester is subpar) - so I migrated to paid testing (nominal fee) so that I don't have to say no, but the model can decide whether she really needs to test and if so she/he has an affordable option. And I actually have the time to shoot. So, now, unpaid tests are pretty much exclusively when I initiate a pull of a specific girl from one of the local agencies. When, someone else initiates the test, it's a paid test. Sep 25 14 12:09 pm Link I presume that "testing" is a prelude to a paying job for someone, eventually. If the photographer is inexperienced, he might say "testing" but he means "TF*". Sep 25 14 12:18 pm Link Yes, I test. I do it to build my portfolio, test new skills, keep in practice, build relationships,etc. My testing is extremely limiting right now since I have paid work I need to take care of. Sep 25 14 12:21 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: No - actually it is the exact reverse. If the photographer is experienced (at the street level), he's using the term testing for collateral building, not TF* (which is an Internet hobbyist term). Sep 25 14 12:24 pm Link I shoot trade a fair bit, but rarely do test shoots. I think testing makes sense if you will be investing a lot in a shoot and want to be sure the model is suited of that shoot before making the investment. Most of my shoots are fairly straight forward and economical. I see no reason to to test and then shoot a second time with the same model, especially since most models live some distance away. Sep 25 14 12:25 pm Link How long do you test for? Sep 25 14 01:06 pm Link Melissa Kat wrote: You mean like how long is the session? Depends. Anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes. Sep 25 14 01:11 pm Link Yes, of course I test. I look for models who are genuinely serious about getting good images, and images they may particularly need. If they want something I don't need, then we can work a collaboration, where I shoot hers, and she shoots mine. Indeed, most of my work with non agency talent, for personal projects, is model testings. Obviously, there are things I do not need, and there are always requests for things that are a waste of time.......like fashion on a model that's 5'5".........but I am always open to testing. I find very few internet models who will test at all, however. Most of them come from agencies, or from personal contacts. Where I am now, there is, however, only one small agency, so that makes it harder than it used to be. My tests are usually half day or full day, depending on what we choose to work on. Sep 25 14 01:24 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: I love it, when I started on this site, the term "TFP" meant "Time for Prints", but the abbreviation got used so much that people forgot what the letters actually meant. So now it's "Trade for Prints", whatever. But what's even more amusing is when we start forgetting that even "TFP" was a term coined on internet modeling sites like this one. The industry term is and has always been "Testing", don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Sep 25 14 01:51 pm Link  This image came from a test I did for Jason O'Brien, and the image got picked up for an editorial cover (the magazine did a story on Jason). Sarah Bruski, with Front Model Management, is the other model. I do test, and I'm lucky enough to be in a market that supports testing with fashion models. When shooting a test with a model in this market, I try to work out an editorial story or at least an editorial feel to the shoot. When I'm not shooting for magazines (and I'm not right now), this is the only editorial content I have to show. It's refreshing to see the shots I did show up on the editorial board of one of the agencies here. So, yes, I do test when I can find an appropriate model. I'm not testing equipment or a new technique, I'm testing myself to see if I can still produce images worthy of editorial publication. John -- John Fisher 700 Euclid Avenue, Suite 110 Miami Beach, Florida 330139 (305) 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com Sep 25 14 01:56 pm Link Melissa Kat wrote: I don't... ceased creative testing a while back... way too many issues with team members expectations... paying the talent entirely frees me from all that BS... besides paid talent rarely flakes... QFT Melissa Kat wrote: Melissa you're agency, what is your hidden agenda here? I strongly prefer collaborating with agency talent who btw, get it... Since I always shoot with a full team it doesn't make sense to waste my team's efforts on non-tenured talent... an experience agency fashion model can follow direction like a compass seeks the pole... time is money... period.... Melissa Kat wrote: My sessions last until it's a wrap... i.e. the narrative is in the can... typically 5 hours minimum including prep... Melissa Kat wrote: Melissa I still do creative testing as a makeup artist... the bottom line here is tear sheets... something to be cherished in my book... any talent without tear sheets isn't there yet... word... example John Fisher above. he gets it... tears are seriously important in this industry... Sep 25 14 02:00 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: No not at all. At least in terms of models and photography. Its not done by inexperienced photographersand it's about testing the model in front of the camera on a real (ish) shoot. Agency's use this as part of their system to develop or teach a new model. If they do well and progress they move up and into the books for potential clients. Sep 25 14 02:13 pm Link I'll explain why I ask ... I was hit up to do a job (won't say since a person on MM is casting for) to do a shoot for a live gallery show with a certain concept in mind I have shot before. I have done plenty of these events, agency signed, worked for Fortune 500 companies, have tons of tears, manage my own Meetup groups, teach models to pose, etc. but he wants to test for a few hours to see how we work together. I told him I don't care and understand that he wants to know how we will work together, that I am reliable, smiley (aka personality judgement), and that I will act professional, but asked for some gas money and would waive my fees to test since this will be an on-going gig that pays via client later on for a monthly event. It just kinda gets me because I do like to accommodate everyone's request, but it's hard to make the time when you are booked 2 months out sometimes and I wish I could just say hey I am good to go, promise, but other models ruin this for myself. This wasn't a question, just an explanation. Sep 25 14 02:30 pm Link Melissa Kat wrote: Yeah - that's not really what 'testing' is - so that would tend to raise somewhat of a red flag for me. Maybe a gosee where he's snapping a couple shots - but this concept of testing (with an actual shoot) to see if you're right - eehh - not so much. Sep 25 14 02:44 pm Link ^^^^ What John said. Sep 25 14 05:00 pm Link A waste of time to me :-/ Sep 25 14 06:25 pm Link sounds like TFP to me...can sugar coat it all you want, it is trading time and effort, no direct financial gain....pros call it test, hobbiest calls it tfp...same thing..if I did test weddings...too funny....so I do test when time permits, or tfp as some would say....depends on the level of the industry your working in but same thing...Mo Sep 25 14 06:45 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: TF is an Internet term that was apparently coined by OMP. Toss out the term to a model or photographer who isn’t on MM or another similar site, and they’ll ask what the hell you’re talking about. Sep 25 14 06:53 pm Link Melissa Kat wrote: Yes Melissa Kat wrote: It's a good way to build or update a portfolio, build contacts with models and agencies, test new equipment and/or techniques, work in different genres and shoot what you'd like to shoot rather than what some client wants. Melissa Kat wrote: See response to previous question. Sep 25 14 07:04 pm Link forgot...old age...testing also came from the movie industry when someone would be called in to do a "test" shoot...not paid, just an audition, see if the camera liked them, big wigs liked them, same for model agency work, or a photographer sending in his portfolio...lots of lines crossing in this area...again..free work at any level but sometimes it may bring paid work..Mo Sep 25 14 07:05 pm Link I only test like once a year now. I just don't have time for it and don't really need to shoot much for my portfolio. Now I have photos from actual paid jobs I can use for my portfolio so I don't have the need to test unless I have a really awesome idea that I must shoot. I do paid testing though. I have two agencies who approached me about paid testing. So they forward my info to their talent when they need to test to update their port or whatever. Sep 25 14 07:08 pm Link mophotoart wrote: Yeah, but it's not - or it may be - or it might not... Sep 25 14 08:19 pm Link mophotoart wrote: Not at all. If I am testing with a new face we may or may not get great images, the booker will decide that. The point of testing in regards to new potential model is just that, test them in front of a camera. Some models never get out of the "in development" stage and are dropped after the initial contract. Sep 25 14 08:29 pm Link For me it allows me to get a lot more creative and try new techniques and equipment out in a way I can't with my clients/customers. Besides that I never experienced any real financial benefit (paid ones just seem cover the costs) so don't do as much these days and my folios are full and overflowing as it is with barely anytime to organize it all. Sep 25 14 10:11 pm Link I "test" because practice makes perfect. Photography is a learning experiment in which the learning never ends. There is no end to new materials/techniques and in order to master them, we test. Sep 27 14 11:49 am Link I am seeing test and trade used differently or interchangeably. Could somebody please clarify. I suspect there may also be some regional differences. It seemed to me that: Test= I want to see how that girl moves or photographs. or I have new gear I want to test, and I need a body. The body may or may not get some usable pics, but they might get a useful contact and/or get some useful experience. Trade= I need to refresh my portfolio/try out some new ideas, or just need to shoot a personal project. Do you have a model who needs to update their book with something different? Or do you have a model who needs a portfolio? I will try to make sure I do some stuff that the agency needs, but there is no guarantee that either of us will get anything useful. So what are they? And yes they do overlap. Sep 29 14 03:55 am Link Sep 29 14 05:56 am Link |
