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How do you deal with a rude, difficult model?
How do you get rid of a model who is bringing down the whole room? My last TFP one of the models was a b&tch, so hard to work with, wouldn't take direction etc... But honestly how do you get rid of someone like that without making a. the other models feel uncomfortible b. a scene with the model you "invite" to leave c. risking adverse consequenses down the line from the model talking crap about you This particular model was so bad that in my opinion none of her shots are usable. I put one up on my site, but I don't like the image because it is of her. I know some people will just say, throw the girl out or some such advice but in a TFP situation I am not comfortable being rude, even if it isn't really being rude. I tried ignoring her, but it hurt my energy too. I know she got on every one of the MUA's nerves. Usually I encounter one of these girls about every 20 models or so, but I have never asked one to leave. I know she hurts the energy of the room, but I don't know how to you know, throw her out... Maybe my problem is most of the models I deal with are just sweethearts to work with, very giving, very understanding, and just plain fun to be around so that when one comes in who isn't I am taken aback and don't know how to react... Any advice on a polite way to make clear to a model that she is no longer welcome and we will be wrapping her session up now? Star Jun 04 05 07:40 pm Link Fortunately, I haven't yet had such an experience, but I don't quite see what the problem is. There's no reason to tolerate her on a TFP shoot where no one's getting paid. You don't have to put up with her for any client's sake. As politely as possible, simply tell her that it's not working, and show her the door. Life is short and TFP should be fun and rewarding for everyone involved. Jun 04 05 07:48 pm Link We recently had a model (one of three) who we had shot TFP twice before. She was 19, but when the second female modle showed up for the shot, she turned 12 and thru a fit, basically saying she didn't like the second model and would not shoot with her (the second model was professional and every seasoned; where the first model -- the one who through the tizzy fit -- is just trying to get into the glamours business. The set was ready, lighting was ready, and I had three hours to get this shot done and sent off to the magazine. I told her this three times, took her aside and explained it to her one last time, but she refused to shoot. I called her a cab and said her services where no longer required. It ruined the initial concept of the shot, but we changed things a bit and shot it anyone. I believe a photographer should tell a model -- whether TFP and especially paid -- that her/his behavior will ruin his/her career. Models, just like us, need feedback. If we don't tell them, who will? In the longterm, it's really in the model's best interest to know how she's coming across to the photographer. Better you tell her now, or she won't be hired by other photographers once the word gets out about her behavior. This is really for her best interest. Cheers, Tim at www.portlandfilmworks.com Jun 04 05 07:49 pm Link One final comment: fortunately, my partner is an attorney and he wrote her a letter when she started making up stories of why she was fired (we didn't fire her in front of the other models -- they didn't know what happened to her). Our attorney's letter worked for a while, but then I started hearing stories she was telling other photographers and models. The story was different every time. We are now sending her one last letter and if she continues to fabracate stories about us, we will file a libel/slander and defamation of character suit against her. We have that language in our model release form. She's the only model, in over 20 years in the biz, who we've had trouble with. And we will take it to court if her behavior doesn't change. We continue to shoot her sister, who is absolutely professional and a real talent -- but we will protect our reputation at all costs. Jun 04 05 07:55 pm Link Just be totally up front. No matter what. That's the best thing a photographer can do. So, to tell a model that it's just not working and she needs to leave is to just SAY IT !!! Politely though and professionally. Something maybe along the lines of... "I'm sorry, but I'm just not feeling the right energy and I don't think this shoot is going to work." I don't know. I suck at confrontation. lol But seriously, from a model's POV, just be straight up !!! Jun 04 05 07:56 pm Link i have dealt with this also.. but it was more of a one on one basis.. never had another model there i had to worry about.. i just looked at her popped off the back of the camera and pulled the film out in mid roll.. and walked away.. i refuse to work with people that are unprofessional.. chris Jun 04 05 08:02 pm Link Posted by Chris Oakley: thats rough, but probably the best way to deal with a situation like that. Jun 04 05 08:11 pm Link I've been lucky enough not to have this happen to me, but here's a corollary moral question: If you ask a model to leave due to rudeness, would you still use the photos you have already taken? (This is assuming, of course, that you did not pull the film out of the camera mid-roll...) Jun 05 05 11:31 am Link Don't use her pics. Destroy or warehouse them. Most of my problems have come AFTER the shoot, when the model decides that she thinks she can tell me what to do with the images or something foolish like that. That's when they start lying, acting ignorant and things like that. So far i've only had one crazed chick do this, who's also been hit with a restraining order from another model that she's been stalking for 2 1/2 years. If you're in Ohio, you should know who i'm talking about. Jun 05 05 12:00 pm Link I know she hurts the energy of the room, but I don't know how to you know, throw her out... When you're dealing with annoying people you can do one of 2 things: protect yourself, or try to teach that person. It's your call which you're going to do because the latter takes more work on your part. Jun 05 05 12:40 pm Link Okay, now this is going to sound really bitchy. But...you shouldn't have much trouble with a shoot IF you communicate properly BEFORE the shoot. Don't hit me !!! lol I've only had ONE photographer who I didn't get along with. Now I've posed with a few models, and that's a different story. But I try to be as close to perfect in everything I wish to accomplish. So I am a bitch. lol Jun 05 05 12:45 pm Link Posted by Star:
Jun 05 05 12:47 pm Link LOL Eric...niiiiceeeeeeeeee !!! That would definately keep me away. lol Jun 05 05 12:49 pm Link maybe i'm sounding like an asswipe, but somebody like me just would continue the shoot and kill them with kindness. rude people cant avoid kindness and professionalism, and then after the shoot, thats when you can break things down with everybody else, but causing a scene in the middle of things establishes you as "ribbing" and while a couple may understand the fustration, others wont get it and will just assume you always do that under any circumstance. very tricky, i know i've had quite a few of those, i just finish up the shoot and act as if it never went down (in terms of reference). Jun 05 05 01:04 pm Link The one photographer I didn't get along with...we finished the shoot and then I accidentally called him. LOL OMG, I thought I was calling somebody else. And I mentioned this photographer's name and he was like... "This is (not going to mention names)." I was like....... oh. lol And I hung up. But I'm glad I accidentally called him. lol He knew then that I wasn't comfortable with him. So I get home and I received an e-mail from this photographer. Saying he was surprised to get my call. That was the end of that. Like I said, I suck at confrontation. But it's very easy to tell if one person isn't comfortable at a shoot. It's true...kill with kindness. I think that's why nobody ever yells at me or gets mad at me. LOL I'm too kind and pretty.  Jun 05 05 01:10 pm Link Posted by Venus: Yes, I agree. Jun 05 05 06:27 pm Link Posted by Star: Electroshock theropy Jun 05 05 06:33 pm Link If it is a multiple tfp/tfcd shoot and said model drove no one out. I would ask her to leave and if the other models ask tell them exactly why. A crazy person in a room of 5, is not seen as crazy just by one of the four other people dig? Everyone knows and you have to nix it. I have had this problem a few times and refuse to work with the worst that will not come around. Generally when confronted they apologize and everything is more than smooth after that....but if you don't say anything they seem to get worse as the shoot goes on. Nix it by telling them to let up, if they don't nix them from the shoot. Life is too short to deal with jerks. -Kevin the verbose Jun 05 05 06:57 pm Link I would ask the MUA or an experienced model, "is it just me or is she being a total bitch?" If they are picking up on it too, then I'd take the model aside and call her out, ask what is wrong, why they're misbehaving. Then I'd say they can take twenty minutes and come back in a different mindset or just get out and not come back, make it their choice. Jun 05 05 08:15 pm Link Well it easy if the other models already hate her attitude.... Tell her to FO and get out.... thank you have a nice day.. No reason to ruin the shoot for the other models that were playing nice.. Back to my biggest rule - If you are a Bit** - I will not shoot with you.... plain and simple... I have enough stress in my other 4 jobs - I do not need my hobby/now a almost full time deal - to be made no fun... Jun 05 05 09:20 pm Link Posted by Brent Burzycki: I pretty much agree here. I would try to tell her in a nice way first that she is ruining the gig for everyone. If that doesn't work, I would just throw my hands in the air and say "That's it, the B*tch has got to go." Jun 05 05 09:43 pm Link I don't put up with it. I tell the model that the shoot is a job and since you can't choose your co-workers then it's in her best interest to get along with everyone even if she doesn't talk to them after the shoot is done. In a TFP/CD shoot, I also remind her that disruptive behaviour will only ensure that she is not called for a paid shoot, especially one where the client will be there to see the job being done. If that doesn't change, I send the model home. Jun 06 05 01:35 am Link If a model is bringing down the energy of the room, the pictures are gonna be crap anyway, cause I won't be able to get into my "zone", so no I wouldn't use the images and I would politely ask her to leave. I mean I'm talking nicely, there's no reason to be rude. Just say, "look this really isn't working, thanks for your time. But, maybe we should try it later. The vibe is just not right. Again, thanks so much." Be nice and don't waste your time. Shawn Jun 06 05 09:00 am Link I am with the "be nice but do not waste your time crowd". I would let the model use images if I took some but I would not let the model waste my time and the time of the others. But sometimes you need to just take it and get the shot. I do not often shoot group shots so it is usually just one or two models that day or time period. Sometimes you just need to pull people to the side and in private let them know that they are being an ass. Jun 06 05 09:22 am Link Working with and managing a crew of people every day for the last last 3 years I have made many mistakes and learned a thing or two about how to direct multiple personalities. A couple of things to do and think about: -Always handle any problems, attitude or otherwise immediately when they occure. -Never reprimand someone in front of their peers. To do so is degrading and insulting. Taking someone aside and explaining the dificulty is respectful. -Politely explain what you expect, and remind the individual that this is your show. -As a last resort, suggest that the person leave, if they are not feeling up to it. I find it best not to go into their reasons, just to give them the option to opt out. Most people do not leave, they come back to work with quiet focus. If I shut down the crew every time someone had a problem or felt bad, bitchy, etc, then I would never get anything done. Frequent transgressors should just not be invited back, but handled properly, work can almost always continue and disturbances are quickly forgotten. Jun 06 05 04:16 pm Link Particularly if this is a multi-model shoot, you might try a gradual degradation of her role in the shoot. Ask her to sit out a few shots, ignore her and see if her mood/attitude improves. If so, include her again. If not, let the shoot evolve to its completion without her. She can then leave with everyone else. John Jun 06 05 04:33 pm Link i've never been in that situation, hope i don'thave to be - but if the model is tfcd, walk away... its that easy - stop wasting your time and theirs. if its a paid shoot, grind it out or end it and prorate the pay Jun 07 05 07:44 am Link the same way you deal with a nude easy model! Jun 07 05 08:23 am Link Posted by Star: Have you tried duct taping the model to a chair??? It may not get rid of her, but she should calm down in about an hour or so!!! Jun 07 05 12:19 pm Link Yeh duct tape is way cheaper than wasting gafers tape on them..... Posted by Ed Remington: Posted by Star: Have you tried duct taping the model to a chair??? It may not get rid of her, but she should calm down in about an hour or so!!! Jun 07 05 02:03 pm Link oh, wait, is this like a knock knock joke? "I don't know. How do you get rid of a rude, difficult model?" 1) Throw a ziplock full of baking soda out the window. 2) Tell her you're the bouncer and that her name is not on the list. 3) Do the shot where her face is covered in diced onions, then tell her the makeup is running too much and you can't shoot her like that. 4) Call her cel phone pretending to be her agent and tell her there is a higher paying gig across town if she can get out of your shoot. I'm not very good at writing jokes. Jun 07 05 02:15 pm Link LOL...yeah duct tape..or i leave them on the location with no ride ha ha ... rude models are like a prick in the side of a good shoot. F.DoT Jun 07 05 02:36 pm Link I just resort to a Chair and my camera, I just get to work Lion Tamer style! Jun 07 05 02:39 pm Link Bitch Slapping usually corrects the problem but the duct tape should be applied quickly while her mouth is still open in shock. Oh, without being rude? Humm, if your indoors run to the bathroom and fake throwing up so she can hear you (outdoors go behind a tree), then tell her you can't stand up straight because you're in pain and need to go home immediately. Or while you're expalaining that your suddenly ill after the fake heaving, act is if you're going to throw up again while standing about a foot in front of her. That should have her running to the door, if not then it's possible she has some sick fetish and may enjoy that type of thing. Then you're just shit out of luck. Actually in one instance the "so called" model was being a bitch with an attitude before the shoot so I just did a few shots because from then on I knew it wouldn't work. I then asked her cute friend if she wanted to do some shots and it was great. About a month later the second girl called about shooting some more and had also told me her bitch friend was no longer a friend. On the opposite side the coin, the model was quite professional but her friend kept jumping in telling her what to do. I politely told her that she was not seeing her friend the same way I was viewing her thru the camera and to let me do what was needed. She kept quiet for about 60 seconds and started the same crap. I stopped shooting and walked over to her and said "here's the camera, you shoot her". Naturally she got a bit insulted (which was the intent) and walked into the dressing room, the model apoligized for her friends actions. Since I could no longer be in the right state of mind I just told the model I could not finish the shoot with her friend there and I did not want to give her subquality work from my present state of mind, she understood and we shot again "without the friend" a few days later and it turned out great. Jun 07 05 03:09 pm Link Luckily, for me. I never got to that point with a rude model, because well, she was rude enough to let my initial e-mail go unanswered. Smart girl. Jun 07 05 03:26 pm Link Posted by Star: I've hired and managed contractors, consultants, employees in my career and there is no polite way, but a firm way and that's simply stating that it's not working out and stating this as early in the game as possible. They'll usually ask why and if you tell them that their personality is not a good match for the environment, most people will adjust their personalities. Jun 07 05 03:31 pm Link Beat her with my shoe. Makes me feel like a champion cheerleader....rah rah rah Jun 07 05 08:09 pm Link If she's being obnoxious, I say you invite her to play a game! Everyone loves a game! It's called Let's See How Long the Model Can Be Quiet game. If she doesn't say a word for the rest of the shoot, she gets a cookie. Jun 08 05 06:10 pm Link Offer her some Xanax or a beer bong. Works all the time. Jun 08 05 07:07 pm Link Hmm... there was that one photographer that posted the best answer in another forum... take about 50 shots - then say okay... that's it, I got what we need... Jun 09 05 10:32 am Link |
