Posted by Herb Way: 

Posted by Rising Moon Photography: 
There was another thread where someone said why don't photographers post pics of themselves and that it would be a good idea.  I gaurantee you if photogs did that, choosing to work with that photographer would no longer be based on his or her work.  Your thoughts?

You're right on point. 

Well, the word's out on me.  I can't pass anymore.  LOL

Aww sh$$ you black too?????

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. 

The abundance of ignorance never ceases to amaze me.  Now hear this!  Some people actually do have it harder than others and often it's because of race.  I suppose you'll next tell us how, when you were growing up, your family had a colored maid who was just like one of the family.

"Lame internet photographers?"  Well, pardon us, Miss Ann, for offending your aristocratic sensibilities!  By the way, the big name land based photographers aren't, as you are, on here asking for TFP work to build their portfolios. 

Posted by Rising Moon Photography: 
There was another thread where someone said why don't photographers post pics of themselves and that it would be a good idea.  I gaurantee you if photogs did that, choosing to work with that photographer would no longer be based on his or her work.  Your thoughts?

No doubt,  well said. 

I cannot wait until the bar meeting when everyone sees that I am a little 11 year old girl.

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. 

Awwww run and cry cry......HUMPH  I don't see your behind on the cover of W magazine or Italian Vogue. So why are you in this thread slumming gurl???????

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. 

Awwww run and cry cry......HUMPH  I don't see your behind on the cover of W magazine or Italian Vogue. So why are you in this thread slumming gurl???????

Now, be careful how you talk about our southern belle.  LOL

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. 

Now that was just pathetic.

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. 

18 yr old white female from South Carolina knows what about prejudice?

Not to mention I don't once remember anyone complaining. EMG, who started this thread, definitely does not look like he is complaining and his work speaks for itself.

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol...

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol...

And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl.

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol...

And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl.

what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts.

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol...

And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl.

what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts. 

And gee I missed this in my shuffling

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 

Posted by urban prospect: 

Posted by Chelsea: 
is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits.

I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle.

When you get some age on your  backward  glass house living self you might actually UNDERSTAND the concept of EMG's thoughts.  But hey you 18 and on a board with a bunch of loosers as you in all your southern white womanhood have gloriously stated(SO WHAT YOU SAY you are not from Carolina UPDATE your port to reflect TRUTH)Why? Furthermore since you are this pilar of higher thinking and artistic expression Where is your BFA so you can enlighten my racist a$$?? What were your SAT scores?  Does your agency know you are inteacting with such self pity losers?  BTW is int your bed time? AND yes I AM A HYPOCRITE GHETTO style

How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol...

And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl.

what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts. 

Oh sooo upper class.

Posted by Lisa Fortier: 
I can honestly say that this is the way I look at "race" differences.  You have a better tan than me.  I have to hang out in the sun to get tanned like that.  Many a women and men will pay a lot of money to get their hair permed so it'll be curly...If someone has to assume that talent is based on skin color than maybe they need to hang in the sun and get a perm.  My, almost 20 yr.old, son is a tall skinny white boy and he can jump and play b-ball with the best of 'em.
Just a spur of the moment thougt from a blonde that loves to be tan. 

??/WTF???

Posted by EMG STUDIOS: 


I didn't want this to turn into a racial debate. I really was interested in knowing if anyone would be man or woman enough to admit that they've done it or that they've experienced it. I think those who have been on the unfavorable side of things; (the thinkers of such nonsense) are afraid to say, "Yes - I thought that" but that's cool too. Because I'm more offended by people who try to act like they are "cool"

I take offense to some of the comments made. "Internet Photographer" being one of them, especially when others are no better but the same by falling under the same title; doing the same thing.

I whisper dumb shit to my friends all the time and I describe people as; "white boy" or "spanish kid". I even call some of my closest friends; "nigga", but I can't help that, it's my culture. What you will never here me say is; "cracker, wetback, or nigger" That would make me racist. Many might say there is no difference, you're wrong. The difference is in the culture and in my culture it's acceptable to use the first set of terms to describe those race of people, but that doesn't mean that I take that culture to work, because I work for a Law Firm that would have my ass on skewer if I did.

You have to understand yours and everyone elses environment before you can judge it. I lived in Los Angeles, Connecticut, Texas, Alabama, and now in Philly. I've seen it from damn near all corners of this continent and if you think it doesn't exist, you should be hit in the head with an anvil. I can't and don't lump everyone into the same group, but I think I know and FEEL it when it's happening.

This is off topic: there is a difference between; their, they're, and there. Too, two, and to, and you're and your. 

First off there is NOTHING wrong with debate.  Secondly I know and feel when it is happening too.  When i get told "I do not consider you black"  Does than mean I am now allowed into the country club?  For people with their heads in the sand they can go sod off.  Yes we can all get along  and Lord knows I try  BUT as long as a bigot hires fires and directs social standards and expectations then there will continue to be issues period whether art or politcal policy.

Posted by EMG STUDIOS: 
What you will never here me say is; "cracker, wetback, or nigger" That would make me racist.

My heritage is part German, part Native American and part black. Feel free to call me a "kraut" or "cracker" or "nigger" or whatever you want, since I'm all of the above. I give you my permission. Because I don't really give a damn about words like that and none of them offend me.

Good thing more people don't have my attitude or all the chink-nigger-cracker-Jew-kraut-gook-cameljockeys wouldn't have any terms to be offended by.

Posted by theda: 
Yes, what would a female photographer know about prejudice?

Things are tough all over, pony boy.

Chelsea will never know how hard it is to be you. And you will never know how hard it is to be her. There's really no accurate mneans of comparing, is there?

I get your point, Theda, but it's a weak one that's laced with denial.  Female and white is still white with all of the white privilege that goes with it.  No one is likely to see Chelsea from a distance and decide to treat her like a second class citizen because she's a photogapher the way they would with someone whose skin is of a darker hue.

In the end, though, ignorant people like Chelsea serve us by causing us to look at ourselves and express our views.  Fortunately, she's young enough to have time to outgrow her ignorance (I hope).

Posted by Herb Way: 
I get your point, Theda, but it's a weak one that's laced with denial.  Female and white is still white with all of the white privilege that goes with it.  No one is likely to see Chelsea from a distance and decide to treat her like a second class citizen because she's a photogapher the way they would with someone whose skin is of a darker hue.

You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't.

Posted by theda: 
Yes, what would a female photographer know about prejudice?

Things are tough all over, pony boy.

Chelsea will never know how hard it is to be you. And you will never know how hard it is to be her. There's really no accurate mneans of comparing, is there?

Please  gimme a break....... another Scarlett

Posted by urban prospect: 
Please  gimme a break....... another Scarlett

Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns.  Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19.  I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. 

Gosh, I guess even Scarlett didn't have it so great, huh, Big Sam?

Posted by theda: 

Posted by urban prospect: 
Please  gimme a break....... another Scarlett

Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns.  Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19.  I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. 

Gosh, I guess even Scarlett didn't have it so great, huh, Big Sam?

This is an example of what I'm talking about and how you just don't get it.  Your whiteness, and the assumptions that you can make because of it, allows you the privilege of misplaced sarcasm and insensitivity.

Posted by theda: 
Yes, what would a female photographer know about prejudice?

Things are tough all over, pony boy.

Chelsea will never know how hard it is to be you. And you will never know how hard it is to be her. There's really no accurate mneans of comparing, is there?

Chelsea is the one who seems to think there are no prejudices, so obviously, she doesn't know much(of anything).

Her comment is tantamount to a man telling a woman in labor, "oh stop whining it doesn't hurt that bad".

Posted by George Butler: 

Posted by theda: 
Yes, what would a female photographer know about prejudice?

Things are tough all over, pony boy.

Chelsea will never know how hard it is to be you. And you will never know how hard it is to be her. There's really no accurate mneans of comparing, is there?

Chelsea is the one who seems to think there are no prejudices, so obviously, she doesn't know much(of anything).

Her comment is tantamount to a man telling a woman in labor, "oh stop whining it doesn't hurt that bad".

VERY, VERY well said!  Get it, Theda?

Posted by Herb Way: 
This is an example of what I'm talking about and how you just don't get it.  Your whiteness, and the assumptions that you can make because of it, allows you the privilege of misplaced sarcasm and insensitivity.

Of course I don't get what it's like to be black. But if you think my "misplaced sarcasm and insensitivity" comes from assumptions or my "whiteness," you haven't been paying much attention.

And if you think labor is so bad, you should try a sucking chest wound.

I am not concerned with being mistaken for a white haired old guy. I am concerned with not being taken for a psychotic who just wants to lay and take advantage of young models.

Being an older balding white male I have been told by the models I have shot that they are suprised at the way I deal with things, meaning I worry about how they are first.  I have my wife or daughter join us at all photo sessions so they know someone is there for me as well as them.  I tell them I won't take photos they don't want their parents, spouse, lover, or children to see.   

It has been a problem with perspective models who have met me or seen my photo first.  So I ask those who are interested in working with me to check out my photos, then I will talk with them. 

Posted by theda: 

Posted by urban prospect: 
Please  gimme a break....... another Scarlett

Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns.  Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19.  I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. 

Gosh, I guess even Scarlett didn't have it so great, huh, Big Sam?

Not enough blood yet Scarlett, but that is my thinking.

Posted by EMG STUDIOS: 
I know I used to get it all the time when I would meet models for the first time; They would tell me that they thought I was some old head white dude.

I never really thought much of it, but something clicked in my head not too long ago that made me think, hmmmm that statement could be misunderstood to be a hidden prejudice. I'm not saying that the models who told me that are prejudice, it's just that is almost an insult to me personally; when someone says that. I still get it, because this is the only forum that has my flyer up.

Yeah, I'm a little ghetto, a lil gangsta and I have to admit, I'm not a businessman; I'm a Business - Maaaan! If I had a dollar for every model that I shot that didn't look like her images, I could buy something with a V12 in it.

I don't hear; "I thought you were an old white dude." I hear; "Young black dudes are not supposed to be this good!" Ever been amazed by.... your hidden or what you thought were non-existant prejudices? I am amazed by it every day.

Holla

You Black! No Way? lol yeah I know what your talkin about bro. How many 27 year old Cuban guys do you see in this industry? I get that same reaction that you get bro. I laugh at those people though. It's real nice to see the look on someone’s face when they can't believe their first impression was 100% wrong. Keep you head up bro cause your work is hot and fuck anyone one that can't see that.

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Herb Way: 
I get your point, Theda, but it's a weak one that's laced with denial.  Female and white is still white with all of the white privilege that goes with it.  No one is likely to see Chelsea from a distance and decide to treat her like a second class citizen because she's a photogapher the way they would with someone whose skin is of a darker hue.

You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't.

Being white is ALWAYS better.  Trust me on this one.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
Being white is ALWAYS better.  Trust me on this one.

Because, of course, you've been a woman, so you're in a position to quantify it.

Posted by EMG STUDIOS: 
I know I used to get it all the time when I would meet models for the first time; They would tell me that they thought I was some old head white dude.

I never really thought much of it, but something clicked in my head not too long ago that made me think, hmmmm that statement could be misunderstood to be a hidden prejudice. I'm not saying that the models who told me that are prejudice, it's just that is almost an insult to me personally; when someone says that. I still get it, because this is the only forum that has my flyer up.

Yeah, I'm a little ghetto, a lil gangsta and I have to admit, I'm not a businessman; I'm a Business - Maaaan! If I had a dollar for every model that I shot that didn't look like her images, I could buy something with a V12 in it.

I don't hear; "I thought you were an old white dude." I hear; "Young black dudes are not supposed to be this good!" Ever been amazed by.... your hidden or what you thought were non-existant prejudices? I am amazed by it every day.

Holla

Hmm... I was for certain you were a ganja smoking hispanic guy...  Seriously...  No kidding... The ganja smoker's are some of the best artists, let me tell ya...

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Herb Way: 
I get your point, Theda, but it's a weak one that's laced with denial.  Female and white is still white with all of the white privilege that goes with it.  No one is likely to see Chelsea from a distance and decide to treat her like a second class citizen because she's a photogapher the way they would with someone whose skin is of a darker hue.

You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't.

Being white is ALWAYS better.  Trust me on this one.

Being white isn't better, as in superior, but it's almost always an advantage.

Wake up, my brother, to the reality that Theda thinks she knows eveything and it's a total waste of time trying to get her to understand.  People like you and I and some others on this thread can better invest our time and energy.