i M a g e ye wrote:
Let's face it most of the models here are from ‘MySpace’ = someone told them they're cute so you should model, had a dream about modeling and experimenting with it here in this community, and don't really know this business of modeling just what they have seen on ANTM.
These are what you call,� fake models"; they hit the club before and after a photoshoot, Come to the shoots talking about a hangover and ready to leave the shoot after maybe two or three hours.
This is sad, cause for the aspiring models taking the opportunities seriously; they're the one's usually get shafted because of the experiences that happened to the MUA, Hairstylist, Photographer, and etc that worked with these girls before hand.
This is just too sad.

I agree! It's so important to be professional and polite! I hate it when models brag about 'OMG, I am SO hungover today. Tell me if my pictures like totally suck, okay?'

Ugh, please, be respectful, especially at a group shoot. Everyone made the effort to be there and set time aside.

I'd also have to agree about a lot of the models being 'MySpace' models/ANTM fans. In this business, it's one thing to look cute, but it's another thing to be humble and professional when working. That comes hand in hand with respect, consideration, and maturity.

Mary wrote:
models that somehow have concluded that anyone cares about how they like their makeup...     If the powers that be liked the way you wore your makeup they wouldnt be paying me $650.00 a day to change it.

Models that bring makeup to the shoot  (they dont even trust you to have their color)  shows you how many budget shoots they've been on.  LOL!

models that are told to bring wardrobe and show up with a few wrinkled, faded, ugly outfits   shoved into a duffle bag... Invest in a garment bag, iron your clothes and if you're a model you should have a nice wardrobe with all the basics!!!

models that jump up out of my chair to answer their phone....If you are a world leader I will excuse this behavior, if not the call can wait till I'm done.

OUCH!!!
Well, for once...I've had make-up done on me that DID NOT LOOK GOOD!! Sorry, but a blind would have noticed that!!! And HELL YES, I told the make-up artist!! I would not shoot looking like that!! No way!! I understand that sometimes make-up artists want to go CRAZY with color and SHOW OFF that they can do edgy make-up, BUT they have to realize that not every color looks good on the model and they need to know how to apply it first; it all depends on the shape of the eye and the facial/bone structure!
And Mary, I'm not referring to your skills as an artist here, I have not worked with you! But generally speaking...
I think a great make-up artist's abilities show most when they do a simple, natural make-up and bring out the best there is on a model's face!
I do my own make-up on a lot of shoots. I'm not doing this a profession obviously, but I know MY FACE BEST and what looks good. And being an artist myself(designer, sketcher and a painter) I do know how color works and where to put it!!

Thanks for reading, whoever did...

♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
OUCH!!!
Well, for once...I've had make-up done on me that DID NOT LOOK GOOD!! Sorry, but a blind would have noticed that!!! And HELL YES, I told the make-up artist!! I would not shoot looking like that!! No way!! I understand that sometimes make-up artists want to go CRAZY with color and SHOW OFF that they can do edgy make-up, BUT they have to realize that not every color looks good on the model and they need to know how to apply it first; it all depends on the shape of the eye and the facial/bone structure!
And Mary, I'm not referring to your skills as an artist here, I have not worked with you! But generally speaking...
I think a great make-up artist's abilities show most when they do a simple, natural make-up and bring out the best there is on a model's face!
I do my own make-up on a lot of shoots. I'm not doing this a profession obviously, but I know MY FACE BEST and what looks good. And being an artist myself(designer, sketcher and a painter) I do know how color works and where to put it!!

Thanks for reading, whoever did...

♀

So why would they pay someone like me $650.00 a day to change your makeup?

  and I disagree....you do not know your face best.  How many professionals have you worked with?  I dont mean a test shoot where someone made next to nothing I mean an industry shoot where everyone was pro?


The one who pays for the shoot calls the shots....I work for them, not for the model and my job is to make her look good, MY IDEA OF GOOD NOT HERS.   They have seen my portfolio and they hired me because they liked it.....Its that simple.....

I just wont argue with a model about makeup, its not her job, its my job and if there is any question I just bring the person in that hired me to settle it.....    If that model has an agent the agent will be notified...but as of yet I have not had an agency model behave this way.   Most models I work with come from reputable agencies and so would never offer makeup input.

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

OUCH!!!
Well, for once...I've had make-up done on me that DID NOT LOOK GOOD!! Sorry, but a blind would have noticed that!!! And HELL YES, I told the make-up artist!! I would not shoot looking like that!! No way!! I understand that sometimes make-up artists want to go CRAZY with color and SHOW OFF that they can do edgy make-up, BUT they have to realize that not every color looks good on the model and they need to know how to apply it first; it all depends on the shape of the eye and the facial/bone structure!
And Mary, I'm not referring to your skills as an artist here, I have not worked with you! But generally speaking...
I think a great make-up artist's abilities show most when they do a simple, natural make-up and bring out the best there is on a model's face!
I do my own make-up on a lot of shoots. I'm not doing this a profession obviously, but I know MY FACE BEST and what looks good. And being an artist myself(designer, sketcher and a painter) I do know how color works and where to put it!!

Thanks for reading, whoever did...

♀

I agree with the Stylist, if a model has been paid for a shoot and there's a MUA their, to apply make-up and the model goes in the restroom and changes the make-up. I could understand the photographer, MUA, and anyone else involved getting upset.

The photographer and MUA might have came up with an agreement of what the image/s should look like and for you; the model, to changes it, would be a slap in the face.

No matter what the make-up looks like, you as the model do not have the right to change the make-up, when there's a set vision for the shoot or project. As I heard on OMP; "Just shut and model!" that's a quote by the way or theme title.

Also when I meant 'You'; this is not directed at you but for the kinds of models who pull stunts like the example.

HELL YES, I told the make-up artist!! I would not shoot looking like that!! No way!!

♀

Please tell me this was a test shoot!!!

Mary wrote:

So why would they pay someone like me $650.00 a day to change your makeup?

  and I disagree....you do not know your face best.  How many professionals have you worked with?  I dont mean a test shoot where someone made next to nothing I mean an industry shoot where everyone was pro?


The one who pays for the shoot calls the shots....I work for them, not for the model and my job is to make her look good, MY IDEA OF GOOD NOT HERS.   They have seen my portfolio and they hired me because they liked it.....Its that simple.....

I just wont argue with a model about makeup, its not her job, its my job and if there is any question I just bring the person in that hired me to settle it.....    If that model has an agent the agent will be notified...but as of yet I have not had an agency model behave this way.   Most models I work with come from reputable agencies and so would never offer makeup input.

I have worked with professionals on shoots I booked from my agent...but I was not referring to those make-up artists. I totally agree with you that they pay you to do YOUR JOB, because you know what you're doing!! And you should not listen to the models at all. What I was talking about was something else which you misinterpreted...But I was expecting your sharp response seeing your other posts on here

♀

Mary wrote:




Please tell me this was a test shoot!!!

Of course it was! Did I say it was through my booker or something!!??

♀

Jessica Steele wrote:
Wow. These models would never be hired again. Do they get up and look through the lens and tell the photographer how to arrange the lighting for what works best for thier face? I've been on shoots in NYC where  the model was replaced the day of the shoot for behavior like this. It is the model's job- to model- period. Modeling is not easy- some are great at it and deserve absolute artistic respect, but they are also professional, easy to work with, and know what thier job is and how to focus on that.

Hon, if you're referring to me, read the whole thread. Don't jump to conclusions so fast. And most improtantly you don't know me and never worked with me!

♀

i M a g e ye wrote:

I agree with the Stylist, if a model has been paid for a shoot and there's a MUA their, to apply make-up and the model goes in the restroom and changes the make-up. I could understand the photographer, MUA, and anyone else involved getting upset.

The photographer and MUA might have came up with an agreement of what the image/s should look like and for you; the model, to changes it, would be a slap in the face.

No matter what the make-up looks like, you as the model do not have the right to change the make-up, when there's a set vision for the shoot or project. As I heard on OMP; "Just shut and model!" that's a quote by the way or theme title.

Also when I meant 'You'; this is not directed at you but for the kinds of models who pull stunts like the example.

Please read what I said below! Geez, you get chastised for being misunderstood!

♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

Of course it was! Did I say it was through my booker or something!!??

♀

ok, so it was a test....and I agree on a test you may be getting a newer artist that isnt great yet with makeup and in many cases the model is better then a new artist....but then the question would be.....Why would you use someone on a test if you did not see and love their work first?    On a test an artist is working for his or  her book and if you direct her or him on makeup they are not showing their work, they are showing Your work. 

On a test I would approve the entire team before hand.

Mary wrote:

ok, so it was a test....and I agree on a test you may be getting a newer artist that isnt great yet with makeup and in many cases the model is better then a new artist....but then the question would be.....Why would you use someone on a test if you did not see and love their work first?    On a test an artist is working for his or  her book and if you direct her or him on makeup they are not showing their work, they are showing Your work. 

On a test I would approve the entire team before hand.

Because the photographer picked that make-up artist!! So, I had no choice...it was a done deal! But things were fine in the end...

♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

Hon, if you're referring to me, read the whole thread. Don't jump to conclusions so fast. And most improtantly you don't know me and never worked with me!

♀

I read the entire thread- I was refering to all of the "model behavior" the stylists are talking about- on the stylist forum- for stylists.

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
Because the photographer picked that make-up artist!! So, I had no choice...it was a done deal! But things were fine in the end...

♀

add 'model vs. stylist' to my other post.

craig wrote:

add 'model vs. stylist' to my other post.

Exactly! Can't we all work and live in peace and love each other??!! I guess not in this lifetime!!

♀

Jessica Steele wrote:

I read the entire thread- I was refering to all of the "model behavior" the stylists are talking about- on the stylist forum- for stylists.

did you notice the thread was started by a model?

it sickens me the way some of you are describing models and modeling.  they are easily more valuable than any other member of the team.  make-up, wardrobe and hair can be replaced much quicker than the model.  like motion picture, they are the cast.  and, like motion picture, they deserve the utmost respect.  you guys are talking about them like they are freaking props.  it's unfortunate if you have had some bad experiences, but don't make ridiculous statements like "shut and model."  and, don't think that gisele, or heidi or any other super-model doesn't have the right to tell the make-up artist, hair-stylist or wardrobe stylist what looks good and doesn't.  if she doesn't (supermodels on down), then the entire shoot is compromised.  if she doesn't think she looks good, how can she exude beauty for the camera?  this is a collaborative process, remember that.

warmest regards.

c

craig wrote:
if she doesn't think she looks good, how can she exude beauty for the camera?  this is a collaborative process, remember that.

warmest regards.

c

AMEN!!!

♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

Exactly! Can't we all work and live in peace and love each other??!! I guess not in this lifetime!!

♀

well, you and i can...in this lifetime.

Jenny Amber wrote:
I think the important thing to remember is that 'modeling' is a collaborative work. Models model, designers design, etc. It's not about us models 'looking good' or designers 'showing off', it's about the final product and the vision behind it. Just like any other profession there will be times when you will work with things you may not have chosen yourself, with people that you may not like to, but that's business. Modeling isn't about being pretty, and a lot of people have a hard time understanding that. I'm still up-and-coming, but it seems to me that the most practical skill one can have in the trade is a degree of open-mindedness and willingness to work towards a common goal. Really, isn't that what we're ALL working for here?

Saying all that I WOULD NOT BELIEVE YOU'D TRY TO LOOK UGLY ON THE PICTURES SOMEONE IS TAKING OF YOU!!! Let's face it! Like Craig said it ~ if the model doesn't FEEL BEAUTIFUL, she is NOT going to LOOK BEAUTIFUL!!! Period.

♀

craig wrote:
it sickens me the way some of you are describing models and modeling.  they are easily more valuable than any other member of the team.  make-up, wardrobe and hair can be replaced much quicker than the model.  like motion picture, they are the cast.  and, like motion picture, they deserve the utmost respect.  you guys are talking about them like they are freaking props.  it's unfortunate if you have had some bad experiences, but don't make ridiculous statements like "shut and model."  and, don't think that gisele, or heidi or any other super-model doesn't have the right to tell the make-up artist, hair-stylist or wardrobe stylist what looks good and doesn't.  if she doesn't (supermodels on down), then the entire shoot is compromised.  if she doesn't think she looks good, how can she exude beauty for the camera?  this is a collaborative process, remember that.

warmest regards.

c

In a lot of cases models are "props" as you put it. I think the "models" that most of us are refering to are inexperianced, with little talen, and huge "heads" .
I have worked with some newbies who think they are hot stuff, but need so much direction on set, show up late, wrinked clothing , dirty hair and unwashed face with yesterday's mascara on, they talk on thier cell phone, ever try appling lip stick with moving lips??? I could go on and on but I think that everyone who works in this industry has a problem some time or another with someone they work  with.

So this thread is about a model's bad behavior so we are "venting" out all of the bad behavior that we have encountered. EVERYONE is replacable, Even top models, big movie stars, Pro photogas and make-up people too. So truly if we are talking about MODEL BEHAVIOR thats what we are talking about, this thread has nothing to do with make-up or photog behavior. if it does it should have been stipulated in the opening post.
but thats just my 2 cents...Mandy of Deadly Design Make-up Artistry

markcomp wrote:
I use the make up artist that I do out of choice.  I trust her judgement and competency.  If the model were to tell her "no", I would not be using that model.

Smart decision! I hope the make-up looks beautiful!
♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

Smart decision! I hope the make-up looks beautiful!
♀

I have used her more than once so I guess that says something about her.

Deadly Design Make-up wrote:
In a lot of cases models are "props" as you put it. I think the "models" that most of us are refering to are inexperianced, with little talen, and huge "heads" .
I have worked with some newbies who think they are hot stuff, but need so much direction on set, show up late, wrinked clothing , dirty hair and unwashed face with yesterday's mascara on, they talk on thier cell phone, ever try appling lip stick with moving lips??? I could go on and on but I think that everyone who works in this industry has a problem some time or another with someone they work  with.

So this thread is about a model's bad behavior so we are "venting" out all of the bad behavior that we have encountered. EVERYONE is replacable, Even top models, big movie stars, Pro photogas and make-up people too. So truly if we are talking about MODEL BEHAVIOR thats what we are talking about, this thread has nothing to do with make-up or photog behavior. if it does it should have been stipulated in the opening post.
but thats just my 2 cents...Mandy of Deadly Design Make-up Artistry

agreed.  my post was refering to some of the stylist's behaviour within this thread.  and, to clarify, i never stated that models were props.  in NO cases should they be perceived and treated as such.

Jay Dezelic wrote:
I think that there are occasions when the model will have a lot of knowledge of how to do their own makeup.  Elisaveta has done some very impressive work.  I don't know how much of it was her MUA capabilities vs. someone else, but I would be willing to bet that her artistic eye was involved.  From a client standpoint (especially one who has a limited a budget), having a model that has good skills in doing makeup can be a real plus. For instance, if only full body shots are required then makeup detail is not as critical and a stylist may not be needed.

This thread is about behavior - and I think behavior is often linked to attitude.  If there is disagreement between Stylist, Model and Photog, the client is probably not going to be as happy with the work.  The model needs to feel comfortable in looking the best they can - given the specific requirements of the shoot.  I have worn the client hat many times more than I have modeled.  The thing I hate is when the "Team" doesn't try to complement each other's skills to get the job done.  Model, Photog, and Stylist often have overlapping experience in each other's areas which can be very beneficial if people work together well.  Knowing when to respectfully make subtle suggestions and to present alternative ideas is key to having a cohesive team on a shoot. - Doing these things at the wrong time or in a condescending and disrespectful manner can be disastrous.

As for me, I know next to nothing about makeup - So as a model, I defer 100% to the MUA and Photog.

Well Said, BRAVO!!!

Lynn wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but I totally disagree with "they are easily more valuable than any other member of the team.  make-up, wardrobe and hair can be replaced much quicker than the model.  like motion picture, they are the cast.  and, like motion picture, they deserve the utmost respect." statement.  I do agree that models deserve respect.  Each member of the team deserves respect.  Like it or not to get a great image you need a great TEAM.  That is the core problem with internet/amatuer modeling sub-culture.  Each person thinks they bring more to the shoot than the next.  No one person is anymore valuable than the next when it comes to creating an image that WOWS people.

If you are making a movie and you have a cast and no script writer, no cinematographer, no mua, no costume people, no set designer you got nothing.  If you have all the other elements and don't have a cast.  You still got nothing.

Good people with great attitudes and talent are hard to find and replace period.  Yeah anyone can be replaced but will the replacement be a great one.  If your goal is not to create WOW then, yeah, I guess you could put any one element of the team first but all the great "leave you speechless, jaw dropping, OMG gorgeous" work I have seen has always been a strong all egos aside team effort.

I coul'dnt agree more. And the FEW great/famous people I have met or worked with, who have  justification for having attitude or not suffering fools gladly- have been NOTHING but GRACIOUS and SUPPORTIVE. It is that that IMPRESSED me most and taught me by EXAMPLE. Work with the NICEST, Highest Caliber people you can. You will LEARN from them and life is too short to do otherwise.