i M a g e ye wrote:

Sir, why don't you go back and read my reply...I wasn't directing my comment to anyone but to the models who have very bad behavior.

So here's my example;
If…Revlon cosmetics hire a model for a beauty photoshoot and a MUA, was there to apply make-up…to the consistency of the paying client: Revlon….and the model goes to the restroom and change the make-up. I’m sure Revlon would allow her to pack up and leave…then to screw around with years of protocol that work for them.

Elisaveta is a great looking model but I guarantee that, if she was to pull a stunt…like changing her make-up, with the major, like Revlon. You want see her face being in any of their advertisements. This is no different for photographers, MUA's, and Hairstylist here.

Now that's all I have to say about this thread.

Wow. I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore. But I've had enough...
Let me get this straight now...

First off, when I was referring to that ONE occasion when I told the make-up artist that the make-up she had just put on me did not look good was AT A TFP SHOOT! It was not a paid shoot!!!(And for your infromation, we both asked the photographer and he agreed with me and the make-up was changed!!!!) Did you get that iMageye??? I hope you did!!!
No one was talking about campaign shoots and such where big money is involved/ or any gig for that matter and the clients say what they want and that's what everyone else does!!! Period!! The Original Poster was talking about a TFP shoot! I have BEEN ON PAID SHOOTS! I have worked with professional/well known photographers for different magazines so don't give me advice on how I should behave or not! I know myself! I may not be Gisele but know very well where I stand! So pay some respect!!!

I'm am really sick of reading posts by some wannabe's and totally unprofessional people, both models and photographers giving advice to others, when THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES FIRST!!!!
I wish some of you would stop assuming things and dissing some of us for things that never happened and will never happen!!!
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! I am SURE some will be throwing mountains at me, make sure you aim well, I'm quick!! And yeah, I still have my sense of humor...some just enjoy making others miserable and bringing them down, but actually all that only makes ME stronger!!!
God, I was hoping there was still some love and RESPECT left out there!! I guess not. Unfortunately!!!


Love and peace to all and have a great weekend!!
♀

lll wrote:
** Ick, is this TFP only?  I only test with agency models, so I guess I don't belong here either, oops! **

LOL!    how did we end up in this thread?????   gotta start reading better!!!

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

Wow. I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore. But I've had enough...
Let me get this straight now...

First off, when I was referring to that ONE occasion when I told the make-up artist that the make-up she had just put on me did not look good was AT A TFP SHOOT! It was not a paid shoot!!!(And for your infromation, we both asked the photographer and he agreed with me and the make-up was changed!!!!) Did you get that iMageye??? I hope you did!!!
No one was talking about campaign shoots and such where big money is involved/ or any gig for that matter and the clients say what they want and that's what everyone else does!!! Period!! The Original Poster was talking about a TFP shoot! I have BEEN ON PAID SHOOTS! I have worked with professional/well known photographers for different magazines so don't give me advice on how I should behave or not! I know myself! I may not be Gisele but know very well where I stand! So pay some respect!!!

I'm am really sick of reading posts by some wannabe's and totally unprofessional people, both models and photographers giving advice to others, when THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES FIRST!!!!
I wish some of you would stop assuming things and dissing some of us for things that never happened and will never happen!!!
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! I am SURE some will be throwing mountains at me, make sure you aim well, I'm quick!! And yeah, I still have my sense of humor...some just enjoy making others miserable and bringing them down, but actually all that only makes ME stronger!!!
God, I was hoping there was still some love and RESPECT left out there!! I guess not. Unfortunately!!!


Love and peace to all and have a great weekend!!
♀

CHILL!!!!    ......you need to not take everything said so personally! I think most people here are talking about models in general not you...you just took the unfortunate position of standing up for models that tell artists how to do makeup. Nobody is throwing stones at you personally... RELAX

Ivy Red wrote:
I am sure there has been thread like this before but I am too lazy to look for it.

What are your pet peeves when it comes to model behaviour.
What are the faux paux?
The things that make you hate a model?
AND
Qualities you look for in a model (assume TFP)
The things that make you love a model? (physical features, habits, and attitude)

Are these things the same or different on a set vs runway??

You can skip the obvious...."Model retouching, redoing, altering, your makeup..."

It would appear that not only have we gone on a tangent, but we've all violated the OP's last request in the process...

And since it wasn't posted in the Photography Talk section, I'm going to keep my pet peeves to myself.  Besides, I'm better off listening to the wisdom of those old, British photographers...



Not... not saying that Leo's old...


:::snicker:::


(you've got me by a year)

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
...I read your previous posts people and yes, some things were meant to be said directly at me!!! Which I forgave you.

Even a model came in and had to comment on how unprofessional "some models" were....Geez...Excuse me!!

I still love you all!!

♀
p.s. lll I don't drink! But maybe Udo put something in the soup!

Udo made soup for you?  Awwww. 

Well, ok, I didn't direct any thing at you.    I still love you!

Mary wrote:
well another model mayhem thread gone completely to hell  LOL!

Mary, "another"?  Don't they all? 

lll wrote:
Craig (great book, by the way),

I was not disagreeing with you at all.  All I said was that people should know their boundaries and understand what they are bringing to the production.  They should all trust others' expertise and behave as such.  Models who have worked with me know I baby them to death, but they also know where the lines are drawn.

I don't think what happened was "model bashing", it was "aspirant diva bashing", which I agree with.  I don't agree with model bashing, because a real-life professional models would not misbehave, like Jay said (Hi Jay, nice talking to you the other day); one call to the agency they would be unsigned on the spot.  I reserve the word "model" for the real, true professionals, not some random internet diva.  You can say that since I hold that word to a much higher standard, I give it the utmost respect; and I do.

Modeling is the least technical craft in a creative process, unlike trained actors/actresses/dancers/singers (which I am accomplished in two of those categories), makeup artists and photographers, who have gone through years of training, pain and suffering to achieve their crafts. This unfortunately makes models the most easily replaceable entity in the team.  Performance artists last, models don't.  The moment the younger, newer and prettier ones come around, the older ones are replaced, without a second look.  And the public forgets them.  One of the local agency owners grooms her girls after she signs them.  The first thing she tells them is that they are "the most easily removed person on the set, just look on the wall (with all the compcards) for your replacements; be respectful to everyone you work with, don't complain, enjoying being dolled by the best and have a good time being a model".  The girls from that agency are the best I have to work with in the city (ok, we are small here in Seattle), and the results always look the best.  Many of them become very good friends, too, they are all so incredibly sweet I love them to pieces.

** And no, Elisaveta, this is NOT directed at you!  I have heard enough great things about ya! **

** Ick, is this TFP only?  I only test with agency models, so I guess I don't belong here either, oops! **

Well said. 

At least no animals were hurt in the making of this thread.

Mary wrote:

I assume we do come from different perspectives,  I work with pros and I'm not a tfp or testing artist,  So I rarely run accross models with an attitude.  I am paid well and so are the models I work with, that usually means the models come from very good agencies and they are pros.   So my perspective is from a professional one, I work full time on commercial print jobs.....I'm not sure about  you and a few models here, but thats where I come from.

and now that I see the original post was about TFP, I had no business in the thread...I dont do TFP.

mary, you have made it abundandtly clear that you are a working and somewhat well-paid make-up artist.  what difference does that make?  my assertion from the beginning has been that models be treated with respect.  i don't care if they are gisele bundchen or any of the giseles on model mayhem.  they are as much a part of the team as you or i.  as much.  equal.

Mary wrote:
CHILL!!!!    ......you need to not take everything said so personally! I think most people here are talking about models in general not you...you just took the unfortunate position of standing up for models that tell artists how to do makeup. Nobody is throwing stones at you personally... RELAX

how can she not take it personally?  you are attacking models.

see below:

Mary wrote:
models that somehow have concluded that anyone cares about how they like their makeup...     If the powers that be liked the way you wore your makeup they wouldnt be paying me $650.00 a day to change it.

Models that bring makeup to the shoot  (they dont even trust you to have their color)  shows you how many budget shoots they've been on.  LOL!

models that are told to bring wardrobe and show up with a few wrinkled, faded, ugly outfits   shoved into a duffle bag... Invest in a garment bag, iron your clothes and if you're a model you should have a nice wardrobe with all the basics!!!

models that jump up out of my chair to answer their phone....If you are a world leader I will excuse this behavior, if not the call can wait till I'm done.

Mary wrote:
So why would they pay someone like me $650.00 a day to change your makeup?

  and I disagree....you do not know your face best.  How many professionals have you worked with?  I dont mean a test shoot where someone made next to nothing I mean an industry shoot where everyone was pro?


The one who pays for the shoot calls the shots....I work for them, not for the model and my job is to make her look good, MY IDEA OF GOOD NOT HERS.   They have seen my portfolio and they hired me because they liked it.....Its that simple.....

I just wont argue with a model about makeup, its not her job, its my job and if there is any question I just bring the person in that hired me to settle it.....    If that model has an agent the agent will be notified...but as of yet I have not had an agency model behave this way.   Most models I work with come from reputable agencies and so would never offer makeup input.

again:

Mary wrote:
and I disagree....you do not know your face best.  How many professionals have you worked with?  I dont mean a test shoot where someone made next to nothing I mean an industry shoot where everyone was pro?

how do you seeing a face for the first time know it better than the model who has seen it all of her life and, if she has worked, seen it made up a hundred different ways?  seriously, mary, i like your work.  but, you have some gall.  i like it.  makes these threads interesting.

kisses.

c

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
Wow. I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore. But I've had enough...
Let me get this straight now...

First off, when I was referring to that ONE occasion when I told the make-up artist that the make-up she had just put on me did not look good was AT A TFP SHOOT! It was not a paid shoot!!!(And for your infromation, we both asked the photographer and he agreed with me and the make-up was changed!!!!) Did you get that iMageye??? I hope you did!!!
No one was talking about campaign shoots and such where big money is involved/ or any gig for that matter and the clients say what they want and that's what everyone else does!!! Period!! The Original Poster was talking about a TFP shoot! I have BEEN ON PAID SHOOTS! I have worked with professional/well known photographers for different magazines so don't give me advice on how I should behave or not! I know myself! I may not be Gisele but know very well where I stand! So pay some respect!!!

I'm am really sick of reading posts by some wannabe's and totally unprofessional people, both models and photographers giving advice to others, when THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES FIRST!!!!
I wish some of you would stop assuming things and dissing some of us for things that never happened and will never happen!!!
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! I am SURE some will be throwing mountains at me, make sure you aim well, I'm quick!! And yeah, I still have my sense of humor...some just enjoy making others miserable and bringing them down, but actually all that only makes ME stronger!!!
God, I was hoping there was still some love and RESPECT left out there!! I guess not. Unfortunately!!!


Love and peace to all and have a great weekend!!
♀

why is everone is jumping on elisaveta ♀?? I had a shoot a few years back when the models camplain about the MUA doing a terrible job. I should have listen. At the time yes I thought they were being bitchy but looking back I realize they were just telling the truth.

back to the OP question ? thing that I love about a model hmm some sense of creativity!

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
Wow. I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore. But I've had enough...
Let me get this straight now...

First off, when I was referring to that ONE occasion when I told the make-up artist that the make-up she had just put on me did not look good was AT A TFP SHOOT! It was not a paid shoot!!!(And for your infromation, we both asked the photographer and he agreed with me and the make-up was changed!!!!) Did you get that iMageye??? I hope you did!!!
No one was talking about campaign shoots and such where big money is involved/ or any gig for that matter and the clients say what they want and that's what everyone else does!!! Period!! The Original Poster was talking about a TFP shoot! I have BEEN ON PAID SHOOTS! I have worked with professional/well known photographers for different magazines so don't give me advice on how I should behave or not! I know myself! I may not be Gisele but know very well where I stand! So pay some respect!!!

I'm am really sick of reading posts by some wannabe's and totally unprofessional people, both models and photographers giving advice to others, when THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES FIRST!!!!
I wish some of you would stop assuming things and dissing some of us for things that never happened and will never happen!!!
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! I am SURE some will be throwing mountains at me, make sure you aim well, I'm quick!! And yeah, I still have my sense of humor...some just enjoy making others miserable and bringing them down, but actually all that only makes ME stronger!!!
God, I was hoping there was still some love and RESPECT left out there!! I guess not. Unfortunately!!!


Love and peace to all and have a great weekend!!
♀

WOW!!! Someone is really upset and the comment was for models who act unprofessionally. If the shoe fit, Well…

…And to bring God into this, sounds blasphemous more than that a quote. Ye Hypocrite, don’t you know vanity is a sin?

Pray for me I’m such a sinner. ï?Š

lll wrote:
Craig (great book, by the way),

I was not disagreeing with you at all.  All I said was that people should know their boundaries and understand what they are bringing to the production.  They should all trust others' expertise and behave as such.  Models who have worked with me know I baby them to death, but they also know where the lines are drawn.

of course, leo.  but, you are describing an idyllic 'should' and they were making gross generalizations that i felt demeaned the profession of modeling.

lll wrote:
I don't think what happened was "model bashing", it was "aspirant diva bashing", which I agree with.  I don't agree with model bashing, because a real-life professional models would not misbehave, like Jay said (Hi Jay, nice talking to you the other day); one call to the agency they would be unsigned on the spot.  I reserve the word "model" for the real, true professionals, not some random internet diva.  You can say that since I hold that word to a much higher standard, I give it the utmost respect; and I do.

Modeling is the least technical craft in a creative process, unlike trained actors/actresses/dancers/singers (which I am accomplished in two of those categories), makeup artists and photographers, who have gone through years of training, pain and suffering to achieve their crafts. This unfortunately makes models the most easily replaceable entity in the team.  Performance artists last, models don't.  The moment the younger, newer and prettier ones come around, the older ones are replaced, without a second look.  And the public forgets them.  One of the local agency owners grooms her girls after she signs them.  The first thing she tells them is that they are "the most easily removed person on the set, just look on the wall (with all the compcards) for your replacements; be respectful to everyone you work with, don't complain, enjoying being dolled by the best and have a good time being a model".  The girls from that agency are the best I have to work with in the city (ok, we are small here in Seattle), and the results always look the best.  Many of them become very good friends, too, they are all so incredibly sweet I love them to pieces.

** And no, Elisaveta, this is NOT directed at you!  I have heard enough great things about ya! **

** Ick, is this TFP only?  I only test with agency models, so I guess I don't belong here either, oops! **

absolutely leo.  the best are without question a joy to work with.  and, that is from the bottom to the top (no pun) of the industry.  i only wanted to make a point that models have every right to contribute to the collaborative process every step of the way.  and, if that means questioning the work of the make-up artist, then i welcome it.  we are a team.  an open line of communication is imperative to this creative process.

i knew we weren't in total disagreement.  and, thanks for the props.  as you said before: 'of the same feather.'  cheers.

i M a g e ye wrote:
WOW!!! Someone is really upset and the comment was for models who act unprofessionally. If the shoe fit, Well…

yawn.  never mind.

craig wrote:

yawn.  never mind.

Just take a chill pill no-one was talking neg. about anyone except any models that fit this bill...GEEZ!!!

i M a g e ye wrote:

Just take a chill pill no-one was talking neg. about anyone except any models that fit this bill...GEEZ!!!

it appeared you were directing your comment(s) toward elisaveta, which is not acceptable.  that being said, she can defend herself.  and, you can certainly dig your own proverbial grave.  my cathexis belongs elsewhere.

best.

craig wrote:

it appeared you were directing your comment(s) toward elisaveta, which is not acceptable.  that being said, she can defend herself.  and, you can certainly dig your own proverbial grave.  my cathexis belongs elsewhere.

best.

Prince Charming? This Romeo is outta here...You can have the last word it's only MM.

i M a g e ye wrote:

Prince Charming? This Romeo is outta here...You can have the last word it's only MM.

You? Romeo?

It's not about who has the last word, it's about having respect towards people you do NOT KNOW and you HAVE NEVER WORKED WITH! Me in particular! Your comments were directed at me and don't act like they weren't! If you're such a believer you must know that someone is really watching you!!!
All I wanted to say to the wonderful people who participated in this thread was that they jumped into conclusions too soon about my work ethics and professionalism and were wrong!!! Period.

♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:

You? Romeo?

It's not about who has the last word, it's about having respect towards people you do NOT KNOW and you HAVE NEVER WORKED WITH! Me in particular! Your comments were directed at me and don't act like they weren't! If you're such a believer you must know that someone is really watching you!!!
All I wanted to say to the wonderful people who participated in this thread was that they jumped into conclusions too soon about my work ethics and professionalism and were wrong!!! Period.

♀

I stand correct, pray for me...I was just in the mirror and just notice, I am sinner.

craig wrote:

Mary wrote:
CHILL!!!!    ......you need to not take everything said so personally! I think most people here are talking about models in general not you...you just took the unfortunate position of standing up for models that tell artists how to do makeup. Nobody is throwing stones at you personally... RELAX

how can she not take it personally?  you are attacking models.

see below:

Mary wrote:
models that somehow have concluded that anyone cares about how they like their makeup...     If the powers that be liked the way you wore your makeup they wouldnt be paying me $650.00 a day to change it.

Models that bring makeup to the shoot  (they dont even trust you to have their color)  shows you how many budget shoots they've been on.  LOL!

models that are told to bring wardrobe and show up with a few wrinkled, faded, ugly outfits   shoved into a duffle bag... Invest in a garment bag, iron your clothes and if you're a model you should have a nice wardrobe with all the basics!!!

models that jump up out of my chair to answer their phone....If you are a world leader I will excuse this behavior, if not the call can wait till I'm done.

Mary wrote:
So why would they pay someone like me $650.00 a day to change your makeup?

  and I disagree....you do not know your face best.  How many professionals have you worked with?  I dont mean a test shoot where someone made next to nothing I mean an industry shoot where everyone was pro?


The one who pays for the shoot calls the shots....I work for them, not for the model and my job is to make her look good, MY IDEA OF GOOD NOT HERS.   They have seen my portfolio and they hired me because they liked it.....Its that simple.....

I just wont argue with a model about makeup, its not her job, its my job and if there is any question I just bring the person in that hired me to settle it.....    If that model has an agent the agent will be notified...but as of yet I have not had an agency model behave this way.   Most models I work with come from reputable agencies and so would never offer makeup input.

again:


how do you seeing a face for the first time know it better than the model who has seen it all of her life and, if she has worked, seen it made up a hundred different ways?  seriously, mary, i like your work.  but, you have some gall.  i like it.  makes these threads interesting.

kisses.

c

I have been on probably more photoshoots then you have, would that make me a better phootographer?

Mary wrote:
I agree....  I think its appropriate to agree that its a big no no for a model to give direction on a paid shoot....she can do whatever she wants on a test...Is this so hard?

I agree Mary...by the way awesome work.

i M a g e ye wrote:

I agree Mary...by the way awesome work.

thank you....

Mary wrote:
I agree....  I think we can all agree that its a big no no for a model to give direction on a paid shoot....she can do whatever she wants on a test...Is this so hard?

Of course we all agreed on that from the get go...
♀

elisaveta ♀ wrote:
Of course we all agreed on that from the get go...
♀

Ok, good night then

Peace again in the stylist forums..................   

deleted last remark so nobody takes it the wrong way (personally)  LOL!

Mary wrote:

Ok, good night then

Peace again in the stylist forums..................   

deleted last remark so nobody takes it the wrong way (personally)  LOL!

LMAO!!! LOL!!! Peace and happiness everyone.