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Flakey Models
Hello So I had a shoot set up for today and not one, but two models canceled on me the day of....with a freaking txt. What do you photographers think about this? Mar 05 10 09:23 am Link  Mar 05 10 09:25 am Link Dylan White wrote: It amazes me how many photographers on this site seem to have the same problem, so that I really have to doubt that it's always the models at fault. Mar 05 10 09:32 am Link not with me. I gave them all info and everything. 2 models are still coming. I guess I should stick to more profesh ones that really want me to do a shoot. Its not worth my time to get a location and everything set up and then get a freaking txt about how they cant come. Mar 05 10 09:34 am Link Dylan White wrote:
Mar 05 10 09:34 am Link These threads get started by new members at least once a week. In an effort to keep this educational before the guys with the torches get here I'll pass this along. Just like in gardening you want to weed early. The key is recognizing them. Then either don't bother with them or insist on a pre-shoot meet if your not sure. Still no guarantees but it dropped my flake rate from 30% to about 5%. I've shot about 90 models so the numbers are approaching statistically significant. First, this is not model bashing. These aren't models, they're Flakes. HUGE difference. Rik's FEW System: Flake Early Warning Signs: 1. Newbie that wants "to try this modeling stuff cause everyone tells me I ought to be a model." 2. Cell pics in portfolio or if what real pictures they have are too small to really examine. 3. Newbie with no experience that is "looking for paid jobs only." 4. List a mySpace page (though a few "real" models do this). 5. Wants to exchange multiple emails without pinning down a date. 6. Won't switch to a real email address and send a cell phone number after several exchanges on MM. This is 100% accurate in my experience. Your mileage my vary. 7. Has sluggo ("manager"). 8. No references. This is soft since most new models or photographers won't have shoot with many others. Sure they won't list the ones they've flaked on but the more they have worked with the better. 9. If their stated stats don't match the pictures. 10. If their profile is less than 4 lines. 11. If their profile is all about what they love in life. 12. If their profile has the word "no" more than once. 13. If anything in their profile is in caps. 14. They say, "TFP only with (pick one: exceptional, amazing, fantastic or published) photographers and their portfolio isn't one of the above words. 15. Says in their profile if they can't bring her escort she won't come. 10 billion threads on escorts but points to remember: 1) that's one more person to flake and kill the shoot 2) so much interference at the shoot that its a waste of time 3) depends on who the escort is - very important 4) should always be discussed first. If they say "escort the first time or if the photographer doesn't have 3-5 references" and the model actually has experience, my experience has been good. 16. If they are from your area but won't set up a pre-shoot meet. Not an absolute either way. My favorite model was too busy (and I think too trusting) and I almost didn't shoot with her. Also I have had others flake after good pre-shoot meets. 17. Paying does not guarantee they will not flake. It may cut the flake rate down but my experience has been mixed. 18. The more a potential model gushes over your portfolio the less likely they are to show up. Shows a certain immaturity, the starry-eyed adolescent. 19. If a model approaches you first, for some reason unknown to me, the flake risk goes up. 20. Model's age is inversely proportional to flaking. I find this particularly true with 18 and 19 year olds. Seems to start dropping off at 20. Mar 05 10 09:37 am Link Rik Austin wrote: Excellent: Mar 05 10 09:45 am Link Deep Breath "Deal With IT!" There, all better. Mar 05 10 09:56 am Link Dylan White wrote: Only you can truly find out why those 2 models didn't want to shoot with you?!? Mar 05 10 09:58 am Link I always include my address, number, email . . . but without fail 50% are cancellitas. I make a note . . . and move on. Mar 05 10 10:00 am Link Dylan White wrote: 1) I think it sucks Mar 05 10 10:03 am Link Rik Austin wrote: I disagree with 19. So if I ask you to shoot regardless of compensation im automatically considered a possible flake? thats bs Mar 05 10 10:05 am Link I think it's not unheard of to be disappointed by the actions of models, photographers, MUAs, stylists, friends, delivery people, politicians, babysitters, boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, daughters, sons... but cats and dogs are pretty reliable, in my experience.  Mar 05 10 10:06 am Link MisterC wrote: Very true hahaha Mar 05 10 10:10 am Link It may be a simple innacuracy in descriptions, they are not models. The web is overrun with those misrepresenting themselves as such, and hoping to get paid for playing dress-up for a day. If there are sales on at the mall, that's where they will be, and not at your shoot. Mar 05 10 10:12 am Link Dylan White wrote: it happens , don't put too much worry into it....it won't be the last one to flake on you... Mar 05 10 10:15 am Link J J Collins wrote: sometimes , that's very true... Mar 05 10 10:16 am Link Skydancer wrote: Pretty good luck with MUAs, current girlfriend and my old dog. The cat on the other hand... Mar 05 10 10:17 am Link I call it disgraceful unprofessional and appauling behaviour A text only? Unless they are in hospital that is beyond rude. I get angry hearing the term''flake'' and ''flaky'' like its somehow not that bad, and not a serious character flaw Mar 05 10 10:18 am Link Flakes give me gas......... Mar 05 10 10:20 am Link PYPI FASHION wrote: IMHO this chart has a lot of false negatives, but I would agree that if a model passes all the conditions they probably won't flake. Mar 05 10 10:21 am Link Dylan White wrote: At least you got a text! As much as it sucks, best thing is to just move on. Mar 05 10 10:21 am Link Oliver Christie wrote: I strongly disagree, I have had 5 cats, and all of them could be relied upon to be cats 24/7, and they have never misrepresented themselves as anything else. Mar 05 10 10:23 am Link MYS Britt wrote: Agreed. It shows a general lack of discipline for commitments, a disrespect for others time and poor decision making abilities. It's the biggest frustration for a lot of good people in the "industry." It's discouraging and, heck, it can be expensive. Mar 05 10 10:23 am Link MisterC wrote: It's a shame, isn't it? Takes some of the fun out of it. Mar 05 10 10:29 am Link I wouldn't worry about the texts. It's 2010. Who talks on the phone anymore?lol. No to prevent any games, I put "serious inquiries only" on my page, like that's supposed to help. Mar 05 10 10:31 am Link Thank you Rik! Excellent list. No 6 is particularly true from my experience. I had never thought about point 1 in No. 15 though I have to say I have never had a problem (point 2) with an escort once they arrive (though in truth they have been involved in maybe 10 percent of my shoots). Point 19 came home today as I had a flake after she had contacted me to set up the shoot -- that had never happened before. I don't know if location has anything to do with this problem, but I was told by a model I shot with last week that Chicago MM members have the worst reputation for flaking. I would add only one thing: Occasionally, and admittedly this is rare, models (and photographers too) have a real reason for canceling. I know that the cancellation is valid if the model apologizes with a real explanation (no grandma sick) and immediately asks to reschedule. That has happened to me twice out of many cancellations/flakes. One final note, my favorite excuse from a cancellation (which I guess doesn't officially count as a flake since she did call, or rather left a message): One model said her sister's boyfriend had poured a can of gasoline on her and set the sister on fire, putting her in intensive care. Since this was such an incredible story, I was actually inclined to believe it. She came from a small town, so I figured a crime as hideous as that would surely make the news. I checked for days and never saw a word about it. Rik Austin wrote: Mar 05 10 10:37 am Link  Flakes suck. They give us real models a bad name.Mar 05 10 10:42 am Link Doug Wade wrote: It has taken a lot of the fun out of it. Mar 05 10 10:43 am Link Dylan White wrote: I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Questions if I may; Had you spoken to them on the phone before? (I am not a fan of texting as the only form of communication) Have you met them in person? If you've spoken to them on the phone, and/or met them in person, they are less likely to flake on you. Here is my thread on Reducing Flakes and Lates like magic; https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 2526&page= Mar 05 10 10:52 am Link MisterC wrote: I'm certainly in favor of working with models you are familiar with on a consistent basis. Working with the same models multiple times does not have to take away form the variety that you can get. I've worked with some models who are so amazing or have changed their looks so much that they bring something fresh and new to the table each time we work together. It's actually one of the reasons I don't have any "flakes!" Mar 05 10 11:00 am Link Wow -- we went three whole days without yet another flake thread starting. Okay -- here are my thoughts: >>> We don't know what happened. At best, we have an incomplete story from only one side of the dispute. Before we pass judgment, we can't assume that the flaking was the model's fault. >>> The solution is easy -- don't work with flakey models. (e.g. Did you check references? Did you hire professional, experienced models? Were the models satisfied with the compensation you were offering them? Did your references check out when the models checked them?) Mar 05 10 11:07 am Link It's frustrating indeed, but i try to be philosophical about it: sites like MM democratize the photog/model world. the good news is that anyone can participate. the bad news is that anyone can participate!! Mar 05 10 11:08 am Link I had started a thread with this; https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 2526&page= There is no magic or "Easy" Button! But there are ways to reduce your problems with Flakes and Late models or other people. This is something I wrote regarding models being late. Keep in mind that I have a 0% flake rate of models not showing. It's not fair to pick on models when photographers and just about any human being can be late. I commented on another thread about this but it got buried. I listed some ideas to help motivate people to be on time to shoots like; (1) Get the people invested in the shoot. If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time! It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital. So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up! (2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR. I have a minutes plan that allows for up 5,000 minutes and long distance so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions. Communication is important! EDIT: I now have an unlimited minutes and texting plan! (3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to bad moods.) I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there. Then when the model arrives, they jump in! If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better. (4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation. This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time. Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it! I also have noticed that models who have a driver (or an escort, or assistant riding) do tend to arrive on time more often. It's nice to have someone helping with maps and directions. I'll even be the driver if necessary! (5) Use contracts or releases. Get it in writing and ready to be signed before shooting. Don't depend on word of mouth! If things are stated in writing, then issues can be resolved much easier. Minor differences become major if you don't do this. Keeping in mind that I do mostly stock, website content and editiorial, most of the time I pay models, but there are times that I do "TFP." For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose? It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... it's better to pay the models! You can read the reponses and post your own TIPS on reducing Flakes and Lates like "Magic" as I have never had problems with flaky models ... ever! https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 2526&page= Mar 05 10 11:13 am Link rp_photo wrote: The chart is good for references. I have had 3 flakes total, I had phone numbers of all three of them. That didn't make a difference. They still FLAKED! Mar 05 10 11:34 am Link Looknsee Photography wrote: So what? This is the most popular topic here, along with escorts an nudes. Mar 05 10 11:36 am Link +1 at least you got a text. Your ahead of the game. Photography by BE wrote: Mar 05 10 11:37 am Link Chuckarelei wrote: Ever worked with a nude escort that flaked? Mar 05 10 11:41 am Link Dylan White wrote: There IS one sure fire way to stops flakes from happening to you...it's simple really..give up photography...LOL... Mar 05 10 11:42 am Link Full Sun Photography wrote: Provided that you never have to rely on others in your other pursuits. Mar 05 10 11:52 am Link |
Two months on MM and already having flake problems. 
