Rachel-Elise  wrote:
uhm. how do you make that "popcorn" emoticon?

....i might just go get some real popcorn instead. dont get me started on how many photogs have flaked on me.

-.-

and it's not right for them either to do so

James Sioux wrote:

I have yet to have a PAID model flake on me.  But, paying the models is not a sure way to eliminate no shows, it will only minimize.  When you pay them $300 for 3 hours to shoot, they will do everything they can to show up.  Choose professional models too.  No amateurs or not serious models.   Models need $$$ to survive, so you're the king when money is in your pocket.  Some models might be saying "oh, it's for the art" I'd say that's a bunch of BS.  I have yet to meet a model who would pose totally nude or open leg for free.  My work sucks, that's why I need to pay.

I've seen models flake on what you're paying for a shoot..maybe they're more in need where you are. Plain and simple is, if they don't show up for whatever, they have a different set of priorities that day and time

James Sioux wrote:

I have yet to have a PAID model flake on me.  But, paying the models is not a sure way to eliminate no shows, it will only minimize.  When you pay them $300 for 3 hours to shoot, they will do everything they can to show up.  Choose professional models too.  No amateurs or not serious models.   Models need $$$ to survive, so you're the king when money is in your pocket.  Some models might be saying "oh, it's for the art" I'd say that's a bunch of BS.  I have yet to meet a model who would pose totally nude or open leg for free.  My work sucks, that's why I need to pay.

I pose nude for free..with select people..its out there

Ravendrive Productions wrote:
flakes and cancellations are disappointing no matter how respectably its done.

still working on a way to minimize it

good luck with that one.. this society of ours has lost its sense of propriety. Any time I get into an argument with someone who believes it's ok for a congressman to yell "you lie" at the President during a State of the Union Address because it's "their house and they can do what they want to", or it's ok to talk out of turn during my class, I know decorum and personal responsibility have gone the way of the dinosaur...might as well turn this flakiness into a reality tv show like everyone else and get compensated.

pullins photography wrote:

if you mean that if it's their priority, they won't "flake" you're absolutely correct...however, that doesn't mean that someone who has lost interest, doesn't have some obligation to be honest and say "no thank you" in a reasonable amount of time, to give the other party some options. I have no idea why people think that other people's time means nothing..to think so is, selfish, insulting, and beyond rude.

If they are serious and professional they wont flake.

Angele wrote:

If they are serious and professional they wont flake.

I know professional models who have done just that and when it's a paid job.  And it's not what I've "heard" but experienced first hand and as an assistant

pullins photography wrote:

I know professional models who have done just that and when it's a paid job.  And it's not what I've "heard" but experienced first hand and as an assistant

Then they are not professional? Just because someone makes money at what they do does not make them a professional.

Angele wrote:

Then they are not professional? Just because someone makes money at what they do does not make them a professional.

they are a professional..their lack of social graces doesn't mean they're not a professional. Think of a situation where a doctor doesn't want to perform elective surgery...does his lack of willingness make him less of a "pro fessional?" Hardly not. This whole thread really is about the courtesy people are not afforded, when someone decides unilaterally to change a contract. When you agree to something, that's a contract...if you change your mind, after someone has prepared to hold up his/her part of the agreement, that's a problem..and it's called wasting time

pullins photography wrote:

they are a professional..their lack of social graces doesn't mean they're not a professional. Think of a situation where a doctor doesn't want to perform elective surgery...does his lack of willingness make him less of a "pro fessional?" Hardly not. This whole thread really is about the courtesy people are not afforded, when someone decides unilaterally to change a contract. When you agree to something, that's a contract...if you change your mind, after someone has prepared to hold up his/her part of the agreement, that's a problem..and it's called wasting time

I believe we have different definitions of someone who is professional.

pullins photography wrote:
they are a professional..their lack of social graces doesn't mean they're not a professional. Think of a situation where a doctor doesn't want to perform elective surgery...does his lack of willingness make him less of a "pro fessional?" Hardly not. This whole thread really is about the courtesy people are not afforded, when someone decides unilaterally to change a contract. When you agree to something, that's a contract...if you change your mind, after someone has prepared to hold up his/her part of the agreement, that's a problem..and it's called wasting time

In alot of ways you're right , but the bottom line IMO is that we own no one , we set up shoots , we hope they come...We can talk about obligation , we can talk about people who flake , but we can't control the actions of anyone but ourselves...and I believe there are models and photographers who actually don't flake , and who consider themselves professional because they can say they've never flaked , but there are people who maybe don't put the modeling or photography at the pinnacle in their life's priorities....I also think we might put too much want for obligation on models and photographers from sites like this , too many think that this is the real world of modeling , the real world of photography ,  it's not...it's the interweb...

Angele wrote:
I pose nude for free..with select people..its out there

Will you pose nude for me, even I have argued with you feverishly in the forum?