This thread was locked on 2013-01-01 11:05:37
Photographer
L o n d o n F o g
Posts: 7497
London, England, United Kingdom
For fucks sake, this thread is done. The OP has read and responded to all the relevant replies!
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10747
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
London Fog wrote:
For fucks sake, this thread is done. The OP has read and responded to all the relevant replies! chill out and have a Grāpple while you wait for the next fool who didn't bother to read any of the posts
Photographer
Ed Devereaux
Posts: 760
Woodland, Washington, US
Do you want an escort? That is your choice and if the photographer is not comfortable with it then don't shoot with them.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Not really.
How many MM models will genuinely have a PA? I think most photographers will immediately see through such a ploy and realise that it's just another way of saying 'escort'. You're probably right but its more psychological.
"Escort" immediately conjures a notion that the models EXPECTS bad things to happen. Whereas an "assistant" is there to help make the shoot a success.
Its like how certain words in the English language carry a particular tone. "Scheme" here in America carries a negative, underhanded, not-on-the level tone. Where you Brits use "scheme" as like another word for an "elaborate plan".
Photographer
Robbie Wolf Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US
I know the thread is done but one of the comments above reminds me of the cliche movie scenes where all the photographers assistants and the escorts have multiple guns pointed at each other just in case.
Photographer
Hidden Beauty Imagery
Posts: 130
San Antonio, Texas, US
Many great questions and answers here. The bottom line is, the world has never been safer. If you watch the news, however, you would fear that the world has never been more dangerous. I am one of the guys who prides myself in providing an incredibly safe and respectful environment, as crappy shots are the result of anything less. I know it seems thin skinned, but when one states a concern for their safety, I instantly don't want to shoot that person. I know that there is a "guilty until proven innocent" assumption and this trade shoot is moving at light speed into unpaid work where the only expectations are that I deliver great shots to the llama. What I want is off the table at that moment. If you are new to llamaing, you need real pro photographers to work with you so you get great images. When you are a pro, the newbie photographers will be your bread and butter and you will be charging them. So, back to the point of the thread, everyone's time is valuable. llamas underestimate the value of a good photographer in a trade scenario as most just think that they are giving the photographer free pictures. Most pro photographers have a vested interest in doing stunning work for trade, and for me it is more important than a paid shoot because all are there for the best possible image. You statistically have a much bigger chance of problems with BF, Hubby, Dad, etc., than a photographer. In fact, it is rare enough that a problem with a photographer makes the news. Keep asking questions, check references, be brave, expand your horizons and get marketable so llamaing can in fact be a great hobby if not career. Happy New Year! Leone P wrote:
Why? Because i want to be safe, i should get out of llamaling?
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10747
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Photog Ed Devereaux wrote:
Do you want an escort? That is your choice and if the photographer is not comfortable with it then don't shoot with them. another one who didn't read all the posts?
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Leone P wrote:
She is gorgeous and her image is very similiar to mine. Bright pink hair, facial piercings and tattoos so would have been perfect for the shoot too haha.
Leone P. So, you're worried about your safety because there are so many creeps out there who've been known to attack and grope models. And the person you're tasking with your "safety" is another attractive female?
Awesome. That's like a BOGO Sale at Macy's.
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
regardless of what you might read on modeling sites, everybody has their own policy. if you want to bring an escort then you get to shoot with photographers who allow them. i think most will allow a driver so long as they disappear during the shoot. or you can hire a MUA to stay for the entire shoot. and if you bring someone else who wants to model some will allow for that.
the photographers who won't allow escorts have their reasons. and it doesn't mean they're necessarily going to try anything bad during the shoot.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
another one who didn't read all the posts? Hey, Your Highness, chill the fuck out! Some of us didn't read her final post. I scanned through 95% of this thread before I posted my last post and didn't catch her final response.
Model
Goodbye4
Posts: 2532
Los Angeles, California, US
Don't shoot with anyone that leaves you feeling you'd want an escort there for safety. If you have doubts about someone, don't work with them. Escorts can be a huge interruption to a shoot and regardless of how well-behaved yours might be, a lot of photographers have had negative experiences with escorts not being so well behaved. Keep safe by doing your due diligence (check references, google names, etc). Always let someone know where you're going and give them an address. Keep your phone charged and, if you're really worried, you can always have a loved one send you a text at some point to check that you're okay. Always make sure you have money, a credit card or bus tokens with you in case you need to leave a shoot urgently. And, mostly importantly, don't worry. Trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right, just leave.
Photographer
Leighsphotos
Posts: 3070
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Kelleth wrote:
Don't shoot with anyone that leaves you feeling you'd want an escort there for safety. If you have doubts about someone, don't work with them. Escorts can be a huge interruption to a shoot and regardless of how well-behaved yours might be, a lot of photographers have had negative experiences with escorts not being so well behaved. Keep safe by doing your due diligence (check references, google names, etc). Always let someone know where you're going and give them an address. Keep your phone charged and, if you're really worried, you can always have a loved one send you a text at some point to check that you're okay. Always make sure you have money, a credit card or bus tokens with you in case you need to leave a shoot urgently. And, mostly importantly, don't worry. Trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right, just leave. +1
Well stated
Photographer
L o n d o n F o g
Posts: 7497
London, England, United Kingdom
Dear Mods...
Please the FUCK close this thread, thus ending all the dumbass replies from those who didn't bother reading the responses...
Perrrlease!
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
SPRINGHEEL wrote:
Leone has become very impressive
Some of these people need to learn to goddam read Agreed. Every few months, we get a newbie model escort thread like this, where they read, think, learn, and say so. It's a joy.
Photographer
FullMetalPhotographer
Posts: 2797
Fresno, California, US
While I understand why a lot of photographers have issues with escorts, I really don't have an issue with escorts. I think part of the reason I don't have a great issue with this is a model that I had photographed was raped and murdered by a photographer. That being said my guess is a model has a greater chance of being hit by a bus. I got a couple of simple policies for escorts during the shoot they are not on the set but in the green room. If we are on location we usually have a spot set up with water and snacks so they can hang there. I make it clear that the escort is their responsibility. We do not feed or pay, lodge or cover travel expenses of the escort. That is all coming out of the models pocket. One of the things that has reduced escorts is we go over all the shoots details before it happens. Also I will have 1-3 assistants during the shoot. Green room ![https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3325/3274089288_392439f999_m.jpg]() office05021109 by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr
Photographer
D S P
Posts: 510
Portland, Oregon, US
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10747
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Shot By Adam wrote:
Hey, Your Highness, chill the fuck out! Some of us didn't read her final post. I scanned through 95% of this thread before I posted my last post and didn't catch her final response. and you still felt it was required after reading 95% of this thread?
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Leone P wrote:
I was in the middle of arranging what sounded like,a fantastic shoot.
The photographer sounded great as did the theme.
However,when I mentioned I would have an escort,he said he didnt like escorts and would have to take a raincheck until I change the way I shoot.
I was really shocked.
Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.
So what is the deal with escorts? I do the same as the photographer you mentioned.
I have found the "distraction" and other issues (theft, flake-coordination of schedules, etc) outweight the benefits of the "escort" usually doing a half-assed job of holding a reflector.
What I DON'T mind is a "driver" that waits out in the parking lot or the coffee shop nearby. Although that still causes a schedule flake sometimes because of the third person having to coordinate.
I shoot in a small "private" park that has it's own security...and the "driver" (in the parking lot, will be less than a 100yards away). AND, I'm also willing to meet ahead of time if the email discussion and the private security nearby aren't enough to make you comfortable.
I just don't want a distraction (or jealously) between you, a THIRD person, and the camera. It turns out to be a waste of my time.
Leone P wrote:
I think thats a brilliant idea. Especially seeing as how i don't drive and most of the shoots are in unkown areas to me so a 'driver' would be great. Hey,if they like her (shes too cute not to!) then great,if they prefer her to leave and come back at the end of the shoot..well..she knows where i am!  Exactly! Well done.
"Driver" Yes!..."Escort" No thanks.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
and you still felt it was required after reading 95% of this thread? I noticed YOU are still reading/writing in this thread too. Interesting.
If it bothers you that much, don't worry. I'll just cut and paste my longer post into the next "llama herder" thread that will start tomorrow. Feel better now?
Photographer
BeautybyGod
Posts: 3078
Los Angeles, California, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
OK, in one of the very, very, VERY rare cases where a model has been raped and murdered by a photographer, he overpowered the model AND overpowered the "escort" and raped and killed both of them. I can assure you, having a cute/sexy friend attend your shoot will do
-NOTHING-
...for your perceived safety.
The number of recorded rapes or murders occurring of a photographer raping/killing the model can be counted on ONE HAND. In one of those cases, the photographer was proven to be falsely accused and in another, the "photographer" was actually not one. He was posing as one, met the girls (two of them...a model and her "escort") in a parking lot. He took them home and raped and killed both of them. A 30 second background check on him online would have revealed he actually wasn't a photographer at all.
Here's some last food for thought for you...did you know that statistically you run a higher rate of being raped in the parking lot when you are buying cosmetics for your shoot than you do ON THE SHOOT and you run a higher risk of being killed while driving to the shoot than you do ON THE SHOOT. Just think about that. well, it's been a long time since i've seen so much of this unsubstantiated stuff in a thread on here. or are these new stories?
hearsay? are you repeating some of the old bullshit that's been posted on here for a long time? or do you have any links to back up any of these stories?
Shot By Adam wrote:
The problem here is that you have a very bad case of Mean World Syndrome because your friends or family have planted all these "worst case scenarios" in your head that every photographer is out to rape or kill you on a photo shoot, and therefore having an "escort" will somehow protect you against this. there are precious few, IF ANY, instances of a model being raped or killed when she brought and had an escort present during a shoot... where there has been a conviction to back it up.
but count all THIS on one hand...
Two men are accused of luring aspiring models and actresses to South Florida with promises of stardom, then drugging, sexually assaulting and filming them to fuel a pornography business
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI54782/
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/17/2 … gging.html
"About 50 women reported similar crimes by Flanders and Callum, prosecutors told the judge"
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ … 6108.story
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/ … s_rape.php
Orange resident gets prison time for luring girls online
Riverside County court convicted him of 79 felonies
http://www.ocregister.com/news/girls-34 … rison.html
http://temecula.patch.com/articles/alle … ster-girls
A photographer in Pennsylvania pleaded guilty to third-degree murder on Monday in the stabbing death of a Canadian porn actress.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2005 … 50228.html
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/ … d=32210982
The 28-year-old killer lured her to his flat by telling her he was looking for girls to model jewellery.
pleaded guilty late Tuesday afternoon to sexually assaulting 11 women and assaulting one woman. Prosecutors stayed an additional 14 charges.
http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/ex-c … nst-models
It's alleged that a man, who portrayed himself as an amateur photographer on a modeling website, lured a girl for photo sessions before plying her with drugs and alcohol and sexually assaulting her.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules. … e&sid=2229
"The man, she said, was holding what appeared to be a professional quality camera, and he told her that he was taking photographs of her to post on the Internet. "
http://www.florida-criminal-attorney-bl … rings.html
https://www.modelmayhem.com/friends/vie … 1236695/3/
"he would help them find jobs as models and took nude photographs and videos of the girls in his home under the guise of creating modeling portfolios before sexually assaulting them"
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/201 … ua/1119399
"It's alright. This is how models are made."
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/prom … ping-model
http://www.koat.com/news/29417196/detail.html
"posed as a photographer for a modeling agency to entice teen-age girls into posing in lingerie or in the nude and then sexually assaulted them"
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-22/ … al-assault
Rademaker ... lured Pandelios into the Angeles National Forest for a photo shoot, then killed her when she resisted his sexual advances
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/31 … me-model31
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/s … urder.html
Bradford
http://lacountymurders.com/wanted/LADIES1.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-10 … 2385.story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Richard_Bradford
Alcala, a photographer with an IQ of more than 160, murdered Robin Samsoe, 12 .... as well as four women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Alcala
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … Bundy.html
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ala/1.html
(Alcala) aspiring actress and singer who disappeared from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 1977 after she went to pose for a freelance photographer
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-291041--.html
Alcala 2012
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-20/just … PM:JUSTICE
Rathbun
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-17/ … inda-sobek
"Photographer to the stars jailed for sex assaults"
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/photogra … 69509.html
convicted of sexually assaulting 9 aspiring actresses
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term
photographer who raped and indecently assaulted his model clients has been jailed for seven years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3004320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl … 020861.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … odels.html
Paleologus - 3 assault convictions and a murder
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/27 … me-model27
http://news.findlaw.com/court_tv/s/2006 … 74722.html
An Arizona man is in custody for allegedly luring at least three teenage girls to his home and encouraging them to engage in sexually explicit acts while being photographed"
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/18/po … latestnews
A professional photographer was today starting a 12-month prison sentence for sexually assaulting a teenage model
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/PERVERT%2 … 0136331946
"Toronto (on MM) photographer charged in connection with sexual assault investigation"
http://www.680news.com/news/local/artic … estigation
Woman raped after answering Facebook modeling agency ruse
http://www.eagletribune.com/latestnews/ … gency-ruse
"Victims told jurors that they came to Kaye seeking acting or modeling jobs."
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term
professional photographer is accused of sexually assaulting a model.
http://www.kpua.net/news.php?id=23913
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/ … Jwn5Q.cspx
"Lee Cropper first assaulted a model during a photoshoot in September last year, dropping his trousers and admitting “I'm a pervert” before forcing the woman to sexually pleasure him. "
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … on_models/
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … ourt_told/
Fake photo shoot teenager jailed for sexual assault
http://www.click-manchester.com/news/lo … sault.html
"Local Photographer Facing 39 Charges"
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Poli … 73128.html
"40 charges filed against local photographer accused of molesting girl"
http://www.gazette.com/articles/godec-1 … z1o520n5r8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/1 … 45768.html
"Phony photographer arrested in incident with teenage girl, police say"
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 … -girl.html
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
i don't like escorts either, but I don't feel compelled to make shit up to back up my position.
Photographer
tonyfromsyracuse
Posts: 374
Syracuse, New York, US
I had a street thuggy looking escort come with an absolutily BEAUTIFUL model, and I dont know if she had been ripped off in the past or he was taking his role too serious....but he came over to me with attitude while she waited off in the distance and he simply said..."money". and held out his hand.
it really turned me off, but I was a bit scared so I timidly handed it over.and he stayed and was like a black cloud over the session with her looking at his expression in case any pose was deemed too "sexy" I gather.
but now...I have a new policy.I say they can drop the model off.....take the payment...leave and then call the model thru the session if they want. but they dont ever stay anymore. I now realize...I hold all the cards, as I am paying.if they dont like it,dont work with me. all you have to do is imform them upfront on your profile.
Photographer
GR21
Posts: 470
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
model emily wrote:
Why is working with a photographer dangerous? This. I also feel very threatened by escorts.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
tonyfromsyracuse wrote:
I have a new policy.I say they can drop the model off.....take the payment... Why in the world would you hand over money to anyone but the model directly? Sounds like your 'new policy' is just a micro-step better than your old. I refuse to deal with such nonsense.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
BeautybyGod wrote:
but count all THIS on one hand... Oh for fucks sake. Virtually every one of these cases you cut/pasted from somewhere else is about FAKE photographers, scam artists, or people posing as professionals in the industry. Again, 30 seconds worth of checking would have proven these guys were fakes. Most of them did not have a website or professional presence anywhere. None of them had references of any kind. I'm not saying that the victims of these crimes deserved what they got but many of these cases were very avoidable if it wasn't for gullible people falling for scams.
But let's take your whole list at face value and assume that these are completely legit cases for this issue (which they are not). You're quoting, what, 31 criminals with less than 200 victims spanning several years. I'd be willing to bet more models were killed in that amount of time due to car accidents!
So let's look at these numbers, shall we? I'll even give you the entire benefit of the doubt and say all 200 of these victims were in one year. I'll also not count any of the several mis-accusations of photographers raping models every year, which happens as well. So we'll say 200 a year.
How many actual photo shoots do you think happen around the world in one day where a photographer is taking pictures of a model? 100? 1000? 10,000? My bet is it's a lot more than that! Hell, just looking at the huge volume of casting calls on Craigslist today in Vegas alone I'd say there were probably over 200 photo shoots going on in the city right now. So let's say, around the world, in a given day, there are 10,000 photo shoots taking place. Now, let's multiply 10,000 by 365 days and we get 3,650,000.
Let me spell that out for you again. That's THREE MILLION, SIX HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND PHOTO SHOOTS IN ONE YEAR.
Now, let's say I'm way off base here. If anything I'm way low in my numbers but let's say I'm not. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt here and let's cut that number in HALF. That now equates to 1,825,000. Again, just so we're clear here, that is ONE MILLION, EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND photo shoots in one year, of which, 200 models are raped and/or killed. That's a percentage of (drum roll...........................)
.01%
or
1 in 9,125 models will be raped or murdered on a photo shoot in one year. Now, this may seem like a lot, but let's look at this statistic a little closer, shall we?
Statistically speaking, more people hit holes-in-one in golf than models are raped by photographers. Betcha didn't know that, did you? The odds on a hitting a hole-in-one is 5,000 to 1.
Here's a fun one...odds on winning an Academy Award is 11,500 to 1. So you're almost as likely to win an Oscar as you are to be raped or killed on a photo shoot.
This is cold and flu season. That's REALLY dangerous by comparison to being raped or killed on a photo shoot. In fact, you are almost 2/3 as likely to die from an excessive cold than you are to being raped or killed on a photo shoot but that's NOTHING compared to your likelihood of dying by catching the flu. You are 147 times more likely to die in one year from the flu than your chances of being raped or killed on a photo shoot as 1 in 62 people a year die from that.
I thought this one was pretty interesting too. Did you know you are more likely to die in an an air travel accident than you are being raped or murdered on a photo shoot? 1 in 7,178 of people die in those every year.
Now, here is where that statistic gets even more interesting. Do you know what your odds are in getting killed in a traffic accident are? 98 to 1. This means you are 93 times more likely to die driving your car than be raped or murdered on a photo shoot.
Oh, and by the way, my source on this is the National Safety Council who compiles statistics on deaths every year.
So while you're screaming about mis-information, you might want to do a little fact-checking on your own data there, OK sport? So yes, I stand by my assertion. The big panic over being hurt or killed on a photo shoot is real in some very rare circumstances but many of those could absolutely have been prevented by using just a little common sense. For the rest of it, it's Angry World Syndrome run amok.
Photographer
Bill Tracy Photography
Posts: 2322
Montague, New Jersey, US
Taking an llama herder does not insure your safety. If you didn't do your homework, and the so called photographer turns out to be a nut job, all you did by bringing an llama herder was give the guy someone else to play with.
Don't be lazy. Get references, talk to other models who have worked with them. This is what I mean by doing your homework. Once you do all this you don't need to bring an llama herder.
I used to be fine with llama herders until I came very close to being robbed for over $5,000 in photography equipment. That totally changed my opinion about llama herders.
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US
For me to get good portraits, I need the women to trust me. Bringing an escort
is actually offensive to me. It's like saying: "When you attack me ( which I assume you will) I need someone here to help fight you off.... or at least scare you enough so you don't try to attack me in the first place."
I'm a sensitive guy, and I find that really insulting.
I don't want to work with a girl who is bringing that level of distrust into our meeting."
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3846
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
If it bothers you that much, don't worry. I'll just cut and paste my longer post into the next "Escort" thread that will start tomorrow. Feel better now? That's what I do. In fact I even have a copy as a simple graphic file that I can paste into the response to the llama, when/if she asks.
![https://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/escorts.jpg]()
Photographer
BeautybyGod
Posts: 3078
Los Angeles, California, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
So while you're screaming about mis-information, you might want to do a little fact-checking on your own data there, OK sport? So yes, I stand by my assertion. so you have nothing to back up those stories you posted?
got it, sport.
Shot By Adam wrote:
The number of recorded rapes or murders occurring of a photographer raping/killing the model can be counted on ONE HAND. Shot By Adam wrote:
So let's look at these numbers, shall we? I'll even give you the entire benefit of the doubt and say all 200 of these victims were in one year. so much for the 'one hand' statement.
exactly my point.
Photographer
GianCarlo Images
Posts: 2427
Brooklyn, New York, US
I'd like to know how much money the escorts make? The OP said it was a TF shoot, so is she paying the escort without earning any money? If my job was to take time out of my day to accompany someone to work and wait till their work is done I would expect to be paid like a bodyguard.
I could care less about somebody accompanying someone to a shoot but if it's a nude or erotic subject shoot then I really prefer to work in private. I have experienced the surprise unexpected escort and I just went with it but I did not like it at all. I thought it absolutely caused creative obstacles because I have a shy side. But many models who do nude work and are experienced have come right in and just rolled up their sleeves and got it done; bam, just like that.
Photographer
Jouissance Images
Posts: 744
Bloomington, Minnesota, US
I've had the experience of an escort burglarizing the model's dressing room -- including taking a pistol I kept out of sight (I thought) in a cabinet.
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10747
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Shot By Adam wrote:
I noticed YOU are still reading/writing in this thread too. Interesting.
If it bothers you that much, don't worry. I'll just cut and paste my longer post into the next "Escort" thread that will start tomorrow. Feel better now? I am reading only to see who is posting without reading the previous posts. It is interesting to see who values their own words so much above whatever anyone else might have to say that they jump in without reading, ready to give advice or lecture on subjects already long finished. This is my fun till it's time to go party for NYE. I'm not in OZ so I still have the unknown to look forward to 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Leone P wrote:
\
Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.
So what is the deal with escorts?
Leone P. X Leone,
Thank you for being open minded and actually listening to what people were saying.
All too often, threads like this begin and the model is argumentative and insistent that she's right and any photographer who does not agree is a suspect creep.
Not only isn't it always the case, I would say that it is not the case more often than it is the case.
As others have said, the more experienced a model is, the less often is it considered/requested.
In other words, when a model asks for an escort, that is frequently considered to be a sign that the model is either inexperienced, uncomfortable, or both.. which usually isn't a promising sign for a successful shoot.
Yes, a driver is a different matter, but it is still a good idea to disclose that need up-front and don't expect that the driver will be permitted to stay and watch the shoot. Many photographers simply don't like distractions.
Again, praise to you for being open-minded and listening to a larger sample of opinions and experiences.
Photographer
Bill Tracy Photography
Posts: 2322
Montague, New Jersey, US
New Art Photo wrote:
For me to get good portraits, I need the women to trust me. Bringing an escort
is actually offensive to me. It's like saying: "When you attack me ( which I assume you will) I need someone here to help fight you off.... or at least scare you enough so you don't try to attack me in the first place."
I'm a sensitive guy, and I find that really insulting.
I don't want to work with a girl who is bringing that level of distrust into our meeting." This is a different way of think about the whole escort thing and it makes total sense to me. I just never thought of it this way.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
Oh for fucks sake. Virtually every one of these cases you cut/pasted from somewhere else is about FAKE photographers, scam artists, or people posing as professionals in the industry. Again, 30 seconds worth of checking would have proven these guys were fakes. Most of them did not have a website or professional presence anywhere. None of them had references of any kind. I'm not saying that the victims of these crimes deserved what they got but many of these cases were very avoidable if it wasn't for gullible people falling for scams.
But let's take your whole list at face value and assume that these are completely legit cases for this issue (which they are not). You're quoting, what, 31 criminals with less than 200 victims spanning several years. I'd be willing to bet more models were killed in that amount of time due to car accidents!
So let's look at these numbers, shall we? I'll even give you the entire benefit of the doubt and say all 200 of these victims were in one year. I'll also not count any of the several mis-accusations of photographers raping models every year, which happens as well. So we'll say 200 a year.
How many actual photo shoots do you think happen around the world in one day where a photographer is taking pictures of a model? 100? 1000? 10,000? My bet is it's a lot more than that! Hell, just looking at the huge volume of casting calls on Craigslist today in Vegas alone I'd say there were probably over 200 photo shoots going on in the city right now. So let's say, around the world, in a given day, there are 10,000 photo shoots taking place. Now, let's multiply 10,000 by 365 days and we get 3,650,000.
Let me spell that out for you again. That's THREE MILLION, SIX HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND PHOTO SHOOTS IN ONE YEAR.
Now, let's say I'm way off base here. If anything I'm way low in my numbers but let's say I'm not. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt here and let's cut that number in HALF. That now equates to 1,825,000. Again, just so we're clear here, that is ONE MILLION, EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND photo shoots in one year, of which, 200 models are raped and/or killed. That's a percentage of (drum roll...........................)
.01%
or
1 in 9,125 models will be raped or murdered on a photo shoot in one year. Now, this may seem like a lot, but let's look at this statistic a little closer, shall we?
Statistically speaking, more people hit holes-in-one in golf than models are raped by photographers. Betcha didn't know that, did you? The odds on a hitting a hole-in-one is 5,000 to 1.
Here's a fun one...odds on winning an Academy Award is 11,500 to 1. So you're almost as likely to win an Oscar as you are to be raped or killed on a photo shoot.
This is cold and flu season. That's REALLY dangerous by comparison to being raped or killed on a photo shoot. In fact, you are almost 2/3 as likely to die from an excessive cold than you are to being raped or killed on a photo shoot but that's NOTHING compared to your likelihood of dying by catching the flu. You are 147 times more likely to die in one year from the flu than your chances of being raped or killed on a photo shoot as 1 in 62 people a year die from that.
I thought this one was pretty interesting too. Did you know you are more likely to die in an an air travel accident than you are being raped or murdered on a photo shoot? 1 in 7,178 of people die in those every year.
Now, here is where that statistic gets even more interesting. Do you know what your odds are in getting killed in a traffic accident are? 98 to 1. This means you are 93 times more likely to die driving your car than be raped or murdered on a photo shoot.
Oh, and by the way, my source on this is the National Safety Council who compiles statistics on deaths every year.
So while you're screaming about mis-information, you might want to do a little fact-checking on your own data there, OK sport? So yes, I stand by my assertion. The big panic over being hurt or killed on a photo shoot is real in some very rare circumstances but many of those could absolutely have been prevented by using just a little common sense. For the rest of it, it's Angry World Syndrome run amok. Women are far more likely to be harmed by that cute new guy they met at the club or bar then any photographer. Sadly we are often as much to blame as the general public. Beauty by God's paste and copy of crimes hurts us. Not that he meant too but your reasoned response will be missed but odds are models will see those stories and think that those outliers mean they need a escort. Fear tends not to be logical. Compare working with a photographer who has a website, Facebook, cell numbers and who has been on MM for a period of time to some goof a model meets at the mall. Heck, I watched as a model I shot this past summer met a dude at a nearby basketball court. She gave him her number and at our second shoot told me they hooked up. No escorts were involved.
I don't allow escorts but sometimes I break my own rule and I usually suffer for it. A MM model who goes to school in TX but who was here for Christmas break came to shoot. She was coming with a friend but her dad comes instead. I knew things would go downhill quickly when I came outside to meet them and he screams. Who are you? She comes in to change into a dress a designer gave. He comes with her. We go to a nearby church to shoot he watches us for a few minutes and does a big U and pulls up to ask. Why do I need to take so many photos?
This after we'd been shooting all of 15 minutes. We return to my place where once again he follows her in and I offered to show him some shots while she changed. He said, no and went on to say. He didn't want her modelling. All of that could have been avoided had she just said, she couldn't come. She knows her dad. He's a rude guy and there were things said that told me why she left Chicago to attend school. Models who feel they need escorts should reconsider modelling.
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 5885
Vineland, New Jersey, US
Escort thread = 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Now I just want to reply to this thread just to watch London Fog blow a gasket.
Seriously, if a thread is affecting you so adversely it might be time to step away instead of contributing to the commentary lol
I'm worried about the blood pressure.
Photographer
Echelon Photography
Posts: 12
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I don't allow escorts. Models should check references. I always recommend to models to check references with anyone I have credit in my portfolio. I'm going to check references on the model.
Photographer
Nelia
Posts: 2166
San Francisco, California, US
I read these threads every so often with interest and amusement. You have your conditions and the Photographers have their conditions.
Some Photographers do not allow Escorts and some Photographers do allow Escorts. I could not and would not make a statement "that more Photographers do not allow escorts versus those Photographers who do allow Escorts" I do not have an answer to that questions and I have never seen a survey to that effect that does answer the question.
I happen to be a Photographer that does allow Escorts at my shoots and I have never had any problems in doing so. It is my personal opinion that an Escort can help break any nervousness quickly and actually enhances the new models relaxation and becoming at ease much quicker. This is my opinion and what I have found. Obviously other Photographers feel completely different about the presents of Escorts as stated in this thread.
If a Photographer that you want to work with does not allow Escorts at their shoot and you have a stead fast rule that you must have an Escort, then the 2 of you will most probably not be able to come to any sort of agreement whereby you can work together. In that case, I would politely thanks them for their time and move on to a Photographer who will work within your terms.
I have seen where some have stated that you will miss the opportunity to work with some really exceptional Photographers. I am sure that you will have no problem finding an abundance of Photographers who will work with you within your terms and of the same caliber of the Photographer who would not allow an Escort at their shoot.
Best of luck to you in your modeling journey!
Photographer
photosbydmp
Posts: 3808
Shepparton-Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia
FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
this is where you need to pull your big girl panties up and decide whether modeling is for you or not. Like I said before, I've yet to see when an escort was "needed" on set. If you're concerned about your safety with any particular photographer- DON'T SHOOT WITH HIM/HER. If not, then treat this as any other job. Be professional, show up on time. Do a good job. Get paid. Leave...and possibly get other paying work/referrals. +1
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
BeautybyGod wrote:
so you have nothing to back up those stories you posted?
got it, sport. I cited my source. Too bad you either didn't read what I said or have poor reading comprehension. Hey, we all make mistakes though. I admitted to mine already. Your turn.
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