R L P wrote:
I came to this thread for a train wreck and I get ... nothing.

MM, you're getting soft in your old age.

Most train wreckers are out on streets drunk. Just wait until tomorrow when everyone wakes up in the morning and has nothing to do. That is if this thread is not locked by then.

Shot By Adam wrote:
I cited my source. Too bad you either didn't read what I said or have poor reading comprehension. Hey, we all make mistakes though. I admitted to mine already. Your turn.

why is it that all the people posting misinformation in these threads seems to think i have a problem with reading comprehension?

you said...

Shot By Adam wrote:
OK, in one of the very, very, VERY rare cases where a model has been raped and murdered by a photographer, he overpowered the model AND overpowered the "escort" and raped and killed both of them.

Shot By Adam wrote:
In one of those cases, the photographer was proven to be falsely accused and in another, the "photographer" was actually not one. He was posing as one, met the girls (two of them...a model and her "escort") in a parking lot. He took them home and raped and killed both of them. A 30 second background check on him online would have revealed he actually wasn't a photographer at all.

Shot By Adam wrote:
...you run a higher risk of being killed while driving to the shoot than you do ON THE SHOOT. Just think about that.

i didn't see any links to sources. although you claim here to have posted them.

where are they exactly?

you seem to be big on insults... and a little short on sources.

if you want to talk about your statistics... anybody can fuck with statistics:
since there may be only one case of a model being killed or raped on a shoot with an escort... and at least 200 without one. it looks like a model is 200 times more likely to be raped or killed without an escort.


and do you know of any models being killed while driving to a shoot? not that i couldn't have missed it, but i've never seen that posted here.

R L P wrote:
I came to this thread for a train wreck and I get ... nothing.

MM, you're getting soft in your old age.

There's hope....Beauty is trying his best I think.

BeautybyGod wrote:
i don't like escorts either, but I don't feel compelled to make shit up to back up my position.

You don't like relevant information, either...

Your links are about situations that a minimum amount of investigating would have exposed these perps as frauds.

Thank you for making his point for him.

I sleep much better knowing that we have a photographer that doesn't like escorts keeping the world safe from bad escort information. lol

Even when the minimal amount of "made up shit" is removed from the equation, the 99.9% of common sense, factual information, and historical precedents are more than enough to make the anti-escort position viable.

John Allan wrote:

Why in the world would you hand over money to anyone but the model directly? Sounds like your 'new policy' is just a micro-step better than your old. I refuse to deal with such nonsense.

well because if we offer that chaperones can be at the shoot,then most likely..... said chaperone is the models boyfriend and if he comes over and you wanted to use the model, you me, and most likely anyone else would hand the money over to the chaperone as the girl is in agreement by letting her man... take charge so who wouldnt think they were both on the same page?

so uit makes no difference if the chaperone take the money...just as long as he leaves.

BeautybyGod wrote:
since there may be only one case of a model being killed or raped on a shoot with an escort... and at least 200 without one. it looks like a model is 200 times more likely to be raped or killed without an escort.

When I stop laughing at this 3rd grade logic (and text-speak), I'll be happy to rip it to shreads.

Then again...it's New Years. Maybe it's not worth the time.

Go out and get some fresh air, dude. You're way overdue.

London Fog wrote:
Dear Mods...

Please the FUCK close this thread, thus ending all the dumbass replies from those who didn't bother reading the responses...

Perrrlease!

No, it's happy new year. We need some fireworks.

I love escorts, much better republicans vs. democrat.

BeautybyGod wrote:
since there may be only one case of a model being killed or raped on a shoot with an escort... and at least 200 without one. it looks like a model is 200 times more likely to be raped or killed without an escort.


and do you know of any models being killed while driving to a shoot? not that i couldn't have missed it, but i've never seen that posted here.

Regardless, models run a far higher risk of being attacked/hurt/injured/raped by someone they know, not by a legitimate photographer who they have checked out and have contact information for.

If a situation is really enough that they should not go alone, they probably should not take another model/girlfriend along if it is so dangerous.

Bottom line, if a shoot seems so dangerous that someone is needed for safety/security, it should be someone who can protect BOTH the model AND the photographer, otherwise anyone over 18 should not need a babysitter.

Image K wrote:
When I stop laughing at this 3rd grade logic (and text-speak), I'll be happy to rip it to shreads.

Then again...it's New Years. Maybe it's not worth the time.

yeah... like what i was responding to.

you seemed to have missed the important part of that quote.

BeautybyGod wrote:
if you want to talk about your statistics... anybody can fuck with statistics:
since there may be only one case of a model being killed or raped on a shoot with an escort... and at least 200 without one. it looks like a model is 200 times more likely to be raped or killed without an escort.

Image K wrote:
I sleep much better knowing that we have a photographer that doesn't like escorts keeping the world safe from bad escort information. lol

Even when the minimal amount of "made up shit" is removed from the equation, the 99.9% of common sense, factual information, and historical precedents are more than enough to make the anti-escort position viable.

so why do people feel compelled to make shit up? i guess i'm asking the expert here? lol

it's disconcerting to see people make false claims that nothing ever happens to models.

give them the actual facts and let them decide.

when i see people complaining that the models are scared off by such posts, it occurs to me that more models are put off by the reality of what's happened to them than will ever read so called white knight posts.

R L P wrote:
I came to this thread for a train wreck and I get ... nothing.

MM, you're getting soft in your old age.

Small Fruit Pits wrote:
There's hope....Beauty is trying his best I think.

haha

somebody posted some stories.

i'd like to know if they are true or not. wouldn't you?

edit: the last time this came up, i was going to make a bet that the thread would get locked before anybody came up with some proof to back up their story. it did.

and i should probably offer that bet again.

Synster Veronica wrote:
I always try to bring an escort with me if I'm meeting a photographer for the first time, or going to shoot in an area I am unfamiliar with. I mainly do it for the sense of security and to know someone I am familiar with is there, in case something does happen. Something can happen on way over or the photographer could end up being someone else all together then who they actually say they are. I'm not saying MM photographers are "posers" (not at all if someone jumped to this conclusion), but there's still a risk when meeting strangers over the internet face-to-face. The shoots I have brought escorts too, they generally go with my to the shoot, meet photographer, and then they go on their way until I shoot them a text (or call them) to come back so we can go back.

Which is the perfect point.  You can bring an escort without the escort being near enough to the shoot to mess it up. Win win.

Synster Veronica wrote:
I always try to bring an escort with me if I'm meeting a photographer for the first time, or going to shoot in an area I am unfamiliar with. I mainly do it for the sense of security and to know someone I am familiar with is there, in case something does happen. Something can happen on way over or the photographer could end up being someone else all together then who they actually say they are. I'm not saying MM photographers are "posers" (not at all if someone jumped to this conclusion), but there's still a risk when meeting strangers over the internet face-to-face. The shoots I have brought escorts too, they generally go with my to the shoot, meet photographer, and then they go on their way until I shoot them a text (or call them) to come back so we can go back.

Back when I was Internet dating, not a single time did someone bring an escort on the date, and we were complete strangers who met on the Internet.

Those dates had far LESS information about me and my identity than any model I'd meet on MM and set up a shoot with.

You meet a guy at a bar, or at a club, or in a grocery store, and you know way less about them than you should know about someone via MM, especially if you do your research and check references.

For whatever reason, a preconception exists that photographers have the potential to be boogie monsters or something, but if that was true, wouldn't VERY EXPERIENCED models be the ones who advocate bringing escorts, but no, it is nearly ALWAYS LESS experienced models who are banging the escort gong.

That fact alone should speak to the need and importance of escorts and how such a request reflects on a model's professionalism.

Someone providing a model with a ride is a very different situation than someone who is over 18 yet still feels they need a babysitter.

(Of course, there are those who may need an attendant due to genuine medical/physical need, and that is a completely different matter as well.)

Leone P wrote:
Hello!




Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.

So what is the deal with escorts?

Leone P. X

< That is the problem. You thought it was common. Why did you not bring that matter of a escort up with the photographer before the photo session?

Leone P wrote:
My escort would be simply there for my safety so would just sit in the corner and watch.

Leone P. X

(I just need to rant)

I don't, and will not, work with anyone who needs someone else around for them to feel safe. Plus, it's rather insulting that, right off the bat, I'm called unsafe and that someone needs to be there to keep an eye on me. Maybe I'll put up with a little of that if I'm getting paid, but for a free shoot, no way.

Now, that said, if someone comes up and says "I need a ride and my friend is going to drive" that's fine, or "my mom wants to come with" again, fine, just don't use the S word and we're all good.





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

They can also cancel, which adds another point of failure to the shoot.

Lol.  I like the way you think :-)  Exactly right.

Leone P wrote:
I guess i'm just shocked. If I went to a shoot alone and something horrible did happen, how would my family feel. I would be chastised for not taking an escort and they would blame themselves for not insisting they come with me.
I have a husband and children to consider. My safety and peace of mind should surely be considered.

Leone P. X

I'm right with you Leone.  Any girl who goes to a shoot with a new photographer is suicidal to go without an escort.  There are people who are less than professional  and leave the model with really bad feelings about what just happened, but who keep shooting, because of sheer numbers. 

There are so many wannabes that a guy like that can always find "fresh blood",  so he conducts himself any way he likes and  gets away with it.  The proof is in how many repeat models he shows in his work. 

So, unless a girl has recommendations about the photographer from several people she trusts, she should not consider going alone lightly.

In the past seven years, I've conducted over 600 photo shoots and I've had a problem only once.   He was a pompous, self-centered, overbearing pipsqueek and the model and I agreed to abort the shoot so I could throw his ass out.

Cliff W Estes wrote:
I'm right with you Leone.  Any girl who goes to a shoot with a new photographer is suicidal to go without an escort.  There are people who are less than professional  and leave the model with really bad feelings about what just happened, but who keep shooting, because of sheer numbers. 

There are so many wannabes that a guy like that can always find "fresh blood",  so he conducts himself any way he likes and  gets away with it.  The proof is in how many repeat models he shows in his work.

Utter bovine excrement.

Repeat models provides absolutely NO proof whatsoever.

The ACTUAL truthful version of what you said is that the ones to watch out for are often going to be selective in who they target, and they will typically try to get away with questionable behavior with those they think they can get away with, just like any other predator.   It could be the first time, second time, fifth time.  What you suggest proves nothing.

Repeat models only *suggest* that the person conducted themselves decently with those repeat models, but EVEN in that case, it is not proof of how they are, it is only an assumption.

As for your first statement, again, that is pure bullshit.  A new photographer is no more likely to attack a model, and to describe that as suicidal is simply idiotic fear mongering.

Since most women are attacked by men they know, and many of the stories about models encountering inappropriate actions by photographers are from situations where the models HAVE worked with the photographer before.

So much crap, it is difficult to count all the ways that is piss poor advice.

Cliff W Estes wrote:
I'm right with you Leone.  Any girl who goes to a shoot with a new photographer is suicidal to go without an escort. 


In the past seven years, I've conducted over 600 photo shoots and I've had a problem only once.   He was a pompous, self-centered, overbearing pipsqueek and the llama and I agreed to abort the shoot so I could throw his ass out.

Oh for crissakes.
Lemme think.....I dunno how many hundred. I should check my cellar, I'm sure all those bodies from suicide are piling up. Damn, many of them "new" ones not only came to shoot, but stayed here for 3-5 days.

I won't comment about my philosophy of you only having one problem....I ain't in the mood to tip-toe around the daisies so I don't get brigged.

terrysphotocountry wrote:

< That is the problem. You thought it was common. Why did you not bring that matter of a escort up with the photographer before the photo session?

actually the problem is you failed to read the four pages of posts before jumping in and assuming you had something useful to say that had not been resolved pages ago.

brian selway wrote:
An escort who just sits in the corner and watches. At best, the llama will keep glancing across for approval..ruining a load of shots with glances in the wrong direction, whilst the phorographer gets more irritated by some lump in the corner.
At worst..they try and 'help' by directing the llama..then things really work out nicely..not!
Check the photographer's credits, check out their work, check with the llamas they have worked with. Protect your safety that way. Let your family know where you'll be. But if you want to work with a specific photographer, then at least respect their work ethic!

1

DougBPhoto wrote:

Back when I was Internet dating, not a single time did someone bring an escort on the date, and we were complete strangers who met on the Internet.

Those dates had far LESS information about me and my identity than any model I'd meet on MM and set up a shoot with.

You meet a guy at a bar, or at a club, or in a grocery store, and you know way less about them than you should know about someone via MM, especially if you do your research and check references.

For whatever reason, a preconception exists that photographers have the potential to be boogie monsters or something, but if that was true, wouldn't VERY EXPERIENCED models be the ones who advocate bringing escorts, but no, it is nearly ALWAYS LESS experienced models who are banging the escort gong.

That fact alone should speak to the need and importance of escorts and how such a request reflects on a model's professionalism.

Someone providing a model with a ride is a very different situation than someone who is over 18 yet still feels they need a babysitter.

(Of course, there are those who may need an attendant due to genuine medical/physical need, and that is a completely different matter as well.)

excellant points.

DougBPhoto wrote:
Back when I was Internet dating, not a single time did someone bring an llama herder on the date, and we were complete strangers who met on the Internet.

Those dates had far LESS information about me and my identity than any model I'd meet on MM and set up a shoot with.

You meet a guy at a bar, or at a club, or in a grocery store, and you know way less about them than you should know about someone via MM, especially if you do your research and check references.

For whatever reason, a preconception exists that photographers have the potential to be boogie monsters or something, but if that was true, wouldn't VERY EXPERIENCED models be the ones who advocate bringing llama herders, but no, it is nearly ALWAYS LESS experienced models who are banging the llama herder gong.

That fact alone should speak to the need and importance of llama herders and how such a request reflects on a model's professionalism.

Someone providing a model with a ride is a very different situation than someone who is over 18 yet still feels they need a babysitter.

(Of course, there are those who may need an attendant due to genuine medical/physical need, and that is a completely different matter as well.)

Well for starters I'm sorry you had to internet date to begin with... lol  but you're basically saying I should take the "gospel reference of other complete strangers (whether they are in the same profession of me or not matters little to me).  Also while I'm not exactly on the cover of vogue as far as "experience" goes, but I'm not exactly green as my fairly short career in modeling bought me a new car.  So I don't need anyone to give me a ride to a shoot...  But if I choose to want someone there to make me comfortable in front of the lens then thats my prerogative and if a photog can't handle that then there are plenty of other models they can pick from if they aren't willing to what makes me happy.  Either way I don't see what the fuss is about.  If you don't do llama herders then don't do them but why bother yourself with what other people do...  Run you're race and wear blinders to what doesn't have to do with you...  I promise you'll get where you want to get quicker that way...

brian selway wrote:
An escort who just sits in the corner and watches. At best, the model will keep glancing across for approval..ruining a load of shots with glances in the wrong direction, whilst the phorographer gets more irritated by some lump in the corner.
At worst..they try and 'help' by directing the model..then things really work out nicely..not!
Check the photographer's credits, check out their work, check with the models they have worked with. Protect your safety that way. Let your family know where you'll be. But if you want to work with a specific photographer, then at least respect their work ethic!

Bingo

Leone P wrote:
Hello!

I was in the middle of arranging what sounded like,a fantastic shoot.
The photographer sounded great as did the theme.
However,when I mentioned I would have an escort,he said he didnt like escorts and would have to take a raincheck until I change the way I shoot.
I was really shocked.


Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.

So what is the deal with escorts?

Leone P. X

I would NOT shoot with you ... even with the tag in my port ...

WHY?

You fit that "image/genre" that wreaks of the "escort" issues I would rather avoid ...

Holly Summers wrote:
Well for starters I'm sorry you had to internet date to begin with... lol  but you're basically saying I should take the "gospel reference of other complete strangers (whether they are in the same profession of me or not matters little to me).  Also while I'm not exactly on the cover of vogue as far as "experience" goes, but I'm not exactly green as my fairly short career in modeling bought me a new car.  So I don't need anyone to give me a ride to a shoot...  But if I choose to want someone there to make me comfortable in front of the lens then thats my prerogative and if a photog can't handle that then there are plenty of other models they can pick from if they aren't willing to what makes me happy.  Either way I don't see what the fuss is about.  If you don't do escorts then don't do them but why bother yourself with what other people do...  Run you're race and wear blinders to what doesn't have to do with you...  I promise you'll get where you want to get quicker that way...

Wow, can you be any more full of yourself to start off a reply saying you're sorry I chose Internet dating.   WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?

Yeah, you're clearly not "green", but you clearly think that your shit does not stink...  can you walk on water too, Ms. hot stuff, I bought a new car off my modeling?

I don't disagree with you, if you want/need to have a babysitter with you to feel comfortable doing your job, more power to you.

Hopefully, when you can't keep relying on your looks and figure, you'll always be able to find a job where you can take someone to work with you, otherwise you may need to begin to wipe your own ass like real adults do.

The point of escort threads and why photographers express their opinions against escorts is that professionals in any job should not need to take someone to their job with them to feel comfortable to adequately perform their job, a job that most professionals can do standing on their own two feet without the benefit of a babysitter.

Of course, you're free to live your life however you please, but if you seriously, as a 24 year old "woman" think you need a babysitter with you for you to feel comfortable in front of the lens, that is a lot more pathetic than Internet dating.

As for why we (who know the difference between your and you're) get involved, the topic of escorts is a re-occurring clusterfuck of bad information as beginning models are encouraged to use escorts for their "safety", or to bring an escort as a substitute for their binky/security blanket.

Leone P wrote:
Hello!

I was in the middle of arranging what sounded like,a fantastic shoot.
The photographer sounded great as did the theme.
However,when I mentioned I would have an escort,he said he didnt like escorts and would have to take a raincheck until I change the way I shoot.
I was really shocked.


Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.

So what is the deal with escorts?

Leone P. X

When I go to shoots with (to me) new photographers, I try to offer to shoot with me and a model that I have worked in the past. That way I 1) offer the photographer a reliable model (or at least smaller chance of flaking) 2) I wouldn't say I'm an escort, but I think it definitely adds to a sense of security to have someone on the set that you already know.

Now, obviously, this is for shoots where MUA is needed and agreed upon, but try finding an MUA who would be willing to cooperate with you on your shoots and offer the photographer to bring the MUA, see if bringing an industry professional (that the photographer can actually perform a background check upon) opens the door for you.

Best of luck.

Leone P wrote:
Hello!

I was in the middle of arranging what sounded like,a fantastic shoot.
The photographer sounded great as did the theme.
However,when I mentioned I would have an escort,he said he didnt like escorts and would have to take a raincheck until I change the way I shoot.
I was really shocked.


Im pretty new to MM and thought it was common sense to take somebody to shoots with photographers I have never met.

So what is the deal with escorts?

Leone P. X

I always bring a female friend who knows how to react if the situation goes bad. She checks out the Studio or wherever we might be shooting, meets the photographer, then leaves and goes about her business for the duration of the shoot. Honestly, having even her there would put me on edge and affect the shoot, and she understands that. Also, I check references.

This doesn't ensure that the shoot will go smoothly by any means, but it does ensure your safety.

Hope this helped!

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
I always bring a female friend who knows how to react if the situation goes bad. She checks out the Studio or wherever we might be shooting, meets the photographer, then leaves and goes about her business for the duration of the shoot. Honestly, having even her there would put me on edge and affect the shoot, and she understands that. Also, I check references.

This doesn't ensure that the shoot will go smoothly by any means, but it does ensure your safety.

Hope this helped!

Clearly, you have found a sure-fire way to avoid potential problems.

On the other hand, she may want to review YOUR thread while evaluating the expertise of your advice.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873353



Rather than advocating escorts (fancy name for babysitter), how about advocating hiring a professional makeup artist or wardrobe stylist who can actually contribute something of value to a shoot.

IF you REALLY NEED an escort, either you're not a professional, or the people you're choosing to work with are not professionals, in which case, don't try to extrapolate these ideas to actual professionals.

For those who feel they "need" them, that is your choice, but don't be butthurt when you're laughed at or told to get lost.  For minors/under 18 sure, it makes sense, but adults?

Leone P wrote:
Would you please take the time to read the whole thread. You would then realise that I took on the advice given and no longer require an llama herder. I have thanked those that helped me realise my mistake and have learnt from it.
You will see that I am new to shooting with photographers im not familiar with.
I have messaged the photographer, apologised and I hope to work with him (llama herder free) sometime this month.
You are all very quick to rip me to pieces so I assume you never made a single mistake in your career. Pros from the off right? Congratulations.

Would a MOD please close this thread.

Thankyou again to all who helped me and then stood up for me.

Leone P.

Leone, as I complemented you earlier, I still commend your attitude and open-mindedness.

AS for closing the thread, your best bet would be to send a CAM (contact a moderator) which is located under the "help" link at the top right, choose "forum issue" and give them the title or URL for the thread.

Again, well done on your using the forum in the right way, because while it may have turned into a trainwreck, you DID ask a valid question, and you received answers that helped you change your perspective.

That sets you apart in a positive way, and I am sure some folks will take notice of that to your benefit.