DougBPhoto wrote:

Clearly, you have found a sure-fire way to avoid potential problems.

On the other hand, she may want to review YOUR thread while evaluating the expertise of your advice.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=873353



Rather than advocating escorts (fancy name for babysitter), how about advocating hiring a professional makeup artist or wardrobe stylist who can actually contribute something of value to a shoot.

IF you REALLY NEED an escort, either you're not a professional, or the people you're choosing to work with are not professionals, in which case, don't try to extrapolate these ideas to actual professionals.

For those who feel they "need" them, that is your choice, but don't be butthurt when you're laughed at or told to get lost.  For minors/under 18 sure, it makes sense, but adults?

Wow, someone's feeling feisty. No one has ever laughed at me or told me to get lost soooooo I guess that does somewhat verify my "expertise"

Lastly, babysitters are paid to monitor their subjects, ensure they're well fed, put them to bed on time.....Maybe you could use one MR.Grumpy!!!

Anyway, I've never had a problem in the escort department. And, OP, please DO read my thread if you'd like especially since you are new to modeling

DougBPhoto wrote:

Wow, can you be any more full of yourself to start off a reply saying you're sorry I chose Internet dating.   WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?

Yeah, you're clearly not "green", but you clearly think that your shit does not stink...  can you walk on water too, Ms. hot stuff, I bought a new car off my modeling?

I don't disagree with you, if you want/need to have a babysitter with you to feel comfortable doing your job, more power to you.

Hopefully, when you can't keep relying on your looks and figure, you'll always be able to find a job where you can take someone to work with you, otherwise you may need to begin to wipe your own ass like real adults do.

The point of escort threads and why photographers express their opinions against escorts is that professionals in any job should not need to take someone to their job with them to feel comfortable to adequately perform their job, a job that most professionals can do standing on their own two feet without the benefit of a babysitter.

Of course, you're free to live your life however you please, but if you seriously, as a 24 year old "woman" think you need a babysitter with you for you to feel comfortable in front of the lens, that is a lot more pathetic than Internet dating.

As for why we (who know the difference between your and you're) get involved, the topic of escorts is a re-occurring clusterfuck of bad information as beginning models are encouraged to use escorts for their "safety", or to bring an escort as a substitute for their binky/security blanket.

Wow....someone needs THEIR binky

Cliff W Estes wrote:
I'm right with you Leone.  Any girl who goes to a shoot with a new photographer is suicidal to go without an llama herder.  There are people who are less than professional  and leave the model with really bad feelings about what just happened, but who keep shooting, because of sheer numbers. 

There are so many wannabes that a guy like that can always find "fresh blood",  so he conducts himself any way he likes and  gets away with it.  The proof is in how many repeat models he shows in his work. 

So, unless a girl has recommendations about the photographer from several people she trusts, she should not consider going alone lightly.

In the past seven years, I've conducted over 600 photo shoots and I've had a problem only once.   He was a pompous, self-centered, overbearing pipsqueek and the model and I agreed to abort the shoot so I could throw his ass out.

This is utter fuckery and nonsense. 5 years, I've lost count of how many shoots in multiple cities, and I have NEVER brought an llama herder.

No creepers, no experiences and only 1 flake in all that time.

It's all in the screening of who you shoot with. References from folks they've previously shot, having proper, real contact info, and a basic google search of their business/name are all helpful tools. Hell, arrange for a friend to do a check in phone call at a specific time and let them know where you will be if it puts you at ease......but don't tell models it is suicidal to be a professional and an adult and arrive to the job they booked alone.

If you don't trust being alone with a specific photographer, or something raises a red flag for you in the pre shoot communications, DON'T shoot with them.

If the person has passed your criteria of being okay to shoot with, you show up all by yourself, just like you would at any other job.

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
Wow, someone's feeling feisty. No one has ever laughed at me or told me to get lost soooooo I guess that does somewhat verify my "expertise"

Lastly, babysitters are paid to monitor their subjects, ensure they're well fed, put them to bed on time.....Maybe you could use one MR.Grumpy!!!

Anyway, I've never had a problem in the escort department. And, OP, please DO read my thread if you'd like especially since you are new to modeling

Oh, but I have read your thread, in fact, you replied to me in your thread a few times.

Whether you were agreeing with me, or pretending to agree with me, only you know.

I am sorry if you cannot see the irony that you come into this thread where the idea of an escort has already been DIS-PROVEN, yet you to advocate using an escort to keep you safe at the very time as you have an active thread about the problems that you're encountering on shoots.

If you're taking an escort and you're still having problems, then it seems pretty clear that the problem is who you are choosing to work with, or with you for choosing to work with them anyway.

If you've never had a problem in the escort department, YET you need to start a thread because you're frequently being asked to have sex with the "photographers", then maybe you should give a little more thought to your screening process.

Come to think of it, if you're taking an escort with you, are they REALLY doing their job as an escort if YOU are the one being offered pay for sex?

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
And of course, if your 'driver' is also a model, female and pretty then you'll probably find that a lot of photographers who would have balked at an escort will invite her to stick around anyway

Quite - this is the 'driver' of one model I shot recently - she now has her own Model profile...



Although I said earlier 'never' - there are always exceptions...

DougBPhoto wrote:

Oh, but I have read your thread, in fact, you replied to me in your thread a few times.

Whether you were agreeing with me, or pretending to agree with me, only you know.

I am sorry if you cannot see the irony that you come into this thread about where the idea of an escort has already been DIS-PROVEN, yet you to advocate using an escort to keep you safe at the very time as you have an active thread about the problems that you're encountering on shoots.

If you're taking an escort and you're still having problems, then it seems pretty clear that the problem is who you are choosing to work with, or with you for choosing to work with them anyway.

If you've never had a problem in the escort department, YET you need to start a thread because you're frequently being asked to have sex with the "photographers", then maybe you should give a little more thought to your screening process.

I see the irony actually, but AS I SAID, problems still occur, but my safety has never been threatened. I don't always bring an escort, sometimes it's just nice to have someone split the driving. I wouldn't say that I'm "frequently" being asked to have sex with photographers, as that only happened to me once.

And I will DEFINITELY re-examine my screening process, I posted that thread for such advice, and I intend to use it. And saying I "had" to post it is a little dramatic. As are all your comments.


and yes, I know you posted in my thread. Congratulations.

RKD Photographic wrote:

Quite - this is the 'driver' of one model I shot recently - she now has her own Model profile...



Although I said earlier 'never' - there are always exceptions...

^^^^^ This is more like what I was getting at

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
^^^^^ This is more like what I was getting at

Yes, that is more like what you were getting at...

even though you didn't even mention a driver until 1 minute prior to posting that reply, and you made no prior mention of anything that has anything to do with the photo that RKD Photographic posted.

SO, this is more like what you were getting at, even though you said nothing even vaguely about such a thing.



You seem to be having some trouble keeping your stories straight.

I DO hope that you will be taking a closer look at how you select who you work with, because what you described in your thread is NOT how professional photographers behave.

Regardless, on the prior page you were advocating escorts, and now you're talking about having someone to help you with the driving, as has been discussed in this thread, those are not the same thing, and the terms are not interchangeable.

DougBPhoto wrote:

Yes, that is more like what you were getting at...

even though you didn't even mention a driver until 1 minute prior to posting that reply, and you made no prior mention of anything that has anything to do with the photo that RKD Photographic posted.

SO, this is more like what you were getting at, even though you said nothing even vaguely about such a thing.



You seem to be having some trouble keeping your stories straight.

I DO hope that you will be taking a closer look at how you select who you work with, because what you described in your thread is NOT how professional photographers behave.

I think you have trouble understanding me douggie B. I said I bring a female friend who meets, greets, then leaves basically. I did neglect to mention that she also drives. And the idea behind the picture was what I was getting at....girl brings another girl without using the "E" word= usually not a problem, even though it's the same idea. 

touche, sir.

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
I think you have trouble understanding me douggie B. I said I bring a female friend who meets, greets, then leaves basically. I did neglect to mention that she also drives. And the idea behind the picture was what I was getting at....girl brings another girl without using the "E" word= usually not a problem, even though it's the same idea. 

touche, sir.

Apparently, I did have trouble understanding you, as I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in your "Photographers with ulterior motives" thread.

You have done a great job of making it more clear where the problems you're encountering are likely coming from.

Now, it appears likely that you're not an unfortunate victim of circumstance or coincidence.

If you and Holly are any indication, I think most of us can figure out the common factors for why there are problems.

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
And the idea behind the picture was what I was getting at....girl brings another girl without using the "E" word= usually not a problem, even though it's the same idea.

As long as it's stated up-front and stays at 'one' person - (see above) then it can be OK...

I have a very big studio though - if I were a 'home-studio' shooter then it would be a zero-tolerance thing.

DougBPhoto wrote:

Apparently, I did have trouble understanding you, as I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in your "Photographers with ulterior motives" thread.

You have done a great job of making it more clear where the problems you're encountering are likely coming from.

Now, it appears likely that you're not an unfortunate victim of circumstance or coincidence.

If you and Holly are any indication, I think most of us can figure out the common factors for why there are problems.

Who is Holly, and what are you getting at sir genius

Ginger Rothestein wrote:
Who is Holly, and what are you getting at sir genius

I'm getting at my SIGNFICANTLY renewed appreciation for professional models, madam.

DougBPhoto wrote:

I'm getting at my SIGNFICANTLY renewed appreciation for professional models, madam.

That answered 0% of my question. I think you're just mad that I disagree with you, which does not at all reflect on my professionalism. SO I'm reduced to saying what married men say to their wives when they're tired of a meaningless argument that's gone on way too long:

You're right, honey you're absolutely right, how could I have ever doubted your OPINION

Bye-Bye now Best of wishes to you, and Happy New Year.

(and it's "SIGNIFICANTLY", by the way)

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Freelance models who really rely on paid shoots with photographers don't have the luxury of bringing friends to work.   Many new shooters and lets be candid those tend to be who pays won't have stellar references.  That said I do understand how models feel.   No matter how safe things may seem meeting a stranger and removing your clothing is for some.   My suggestion is to get a job that doesn't require any of that.   Starbucks or Target or a office job.   Go back to school.   Modelling with hobbyists comes with some risks.   If you are concerned about your safety and you aren't allowed to bring a escort don't go.   

I allow drivers to come and meet me and leave but even that has been a problem at times.  What happens when your escort/driver isn't available?   Models who need to work to pay bill and experienced models don't have time for amateur hour.   If you can't put your big girl panties on and shoot without drivers, escorts, friends, hang out buds, boyfriends or girlfriends consider doing something else.

Despite what yourself and several other posters may desire, I will not stop modeling. Also,how dare you assume I am only going to get a job in a coffee shop etc. Why? Because I model I have no real qualifications. You couldn't be more wrong.

As I have said several times now. I have taken the advice given and I am no longer under the impression that I need anybody with me on shoots if I do my research.

Get off your high horse and read the thread.

Leone P wrote:

Despite what yourself and several other posters may desire, I will not stop modeling. Also,how dare you assume I am only going to get a job in a coffee shop etc. Why? Because I model I have no real qualifications. You couldn't be more wrong.

As I have said several times now. I have taken the advice given and I am no longer under the impression that I need anybody with me on shoots if I do my research.



Get off your high horse and read the thread.

You go girl

Leone P wrote:

Despite what yourself and several other posters may desire, I will not stop modeling. Also,how dare you assume I am only going to get a job in a coffee shop etc. Why? Because I model I have no real qualifications. You couldn't be more wrong.

As I have said several times now. I have taken the advice given and I am no longer under the impression that I need anybody with me on shoots if I do my research.

Get off your high horse and read the thread.

I wasn't speaking to you so why are you offended?   I don't care if you model or stop.   That's your business nor do I know or care what you are qualified to do.

I wasn't speaking to you so why are you offended?   I don't care if you model or stop.   That's your business nor do I know or care what you are qualified to do.

Considering i'm the OP, it would seem you were speaking to me.

Leone P wrote:
I guess i'm just shocked. If I went to a shoot alone and something horrible did happen, how would my family feel. I would be chastised for not taking an escort and they would blame themselves for not insisting they come with me.
I have a husband and children to consider. My safety and peace of mind should surely be considered.

Leone P. X

Last year I had 70+ shoots. There were 14 with escorts – not counting models who are friends and came in pairs.  The only problems I had were with boyfriends.

First I will not shoot an underage model unless a parent is present. It's a studio rule (and an insurance company rule) that the parent not only be present but sign a release *before* the shoot.

I don't seek out shoots with underage models. I shot with one last year with her mom present. Her mom was nice and stayed very much in the background - watching everything but never injecting herself into the shoot.

Seven of the shoots involved three husbands as escorts. All three were very congenial. Two of the husbands (six shoots) have been extremely helpful. Both of them are in effect wardrobe stylists for their wives, and one does his wife’s makeup for shoots.

In fact, I have been helping one of them learn photography. I have shot his wife four times in the past year. (They live two states away and do other things when they are St. Louis.)

Each time he was present, and the first three times he was very quiet. Last weekend I allowed him to shoot three models in another part of the room while I was shooting his wife. (The studio has four camera rooms. This was the second largest.)

The third husband was present (along with the model’s mom) for a pregnancy shoot, and he was in some of the photos. Otherwise he sat and watched.

One model brought a sorority sister who sat and watched and helped with wardrobe and makeup changes.

Another brought her female lover, who was also her transportation. The escort is in the military, and she stayed upstairs in the makeup area and studied for a test during the shoot – then spent 30-40 minutes talking to me after the shoot, to the apparent chagrin of the model.

One model, who is a good friend and a full-time professional model and posing coach (who lives three hours from St. Louis) is legally blind and can’t drive. She either travels with another model, or a male friend drives her to her shoots. I believe we shot together seven times last year. Her male friend sits upstairs and reads a book while we shoot.

Three of the escorts were boyfriends. Each of them disliked their model/girlfriend’s wardrobe selection at some point during the shoot and ended up screaming at the model. The first two ended the shoots prematurely.

The first time the model went up to the dressing room in tears, and they left. The second time the model left in tears, got in her car and drove off – leaving her boyfriend stranded at the studio.

The third time the model stood her ground, and she and her boyfriend screamed at each other for about 20 minutes, then the shoot resumed – but it was not very productive. The model emailed me a few weeks ago and said she has broken up with her boyfriend, and he will not be a problem at any future shoots. (She didn’t want him there in the first place.)

Of course each model promised me in advance that her boyfriend would quietly observe and would not interfere with the shoot.

One model was escorted by her “manager,” who may or may not have been her boyfriend. She came in with two huge rolling garment bags full of clothing. (This was last January, before I began doing wardrobe planning with the model before scheduling a shoot.) 

It was a simple fashion shoot, and there was no “revealing” wardrobe. But each time we put together an outfit, he found something wrong with it. We ignored him. I had a camera malfunction early in the shoot, which ended the shoot prematurely.

Interestingly, each model whose profile she says she is always accompanied by an escort – “no exceptions” – showed up without an escort.

Each time a model mentions an escort (especially if it's a boyfriend), I ask myself just how much I want to work with that model. In several cases I just canceled the shoot. Does anyone wonder why?

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
And of course, if your 'driver' is also a model, female and pretty then you'll probably find that a lot of photographers who would have balked at an escort will invite her to stick around anyway

Hmm, I pity the model that brings someone to the shoot who is prettier and more experienced than she is. No need to shoot her if her "escort" is the better model (pun intended).

OP. Photographers love the idea of you doing the scouting for them, but unless you have already discussed a duo shoot, I wouldn't recommend bringing someone who could lose you the gig.

Leone P wrote:
Again, i apologise if i have offended anyone! Your right, im not very experienced. As I said before,all previous shoots have included somebody in the industry that I know.
I hadn't really considered how the photographer may feel to me bringing somebody whom they didn't know. Again, for that, i am genuinely sorry.

It is not really a matter of offending anyone. this subject has been in a million forum posts here on MM. I am surprized that most of us even respond to it. I guess we all have a desire to voice our opinion over and over. I echo what has already been written here: check references on the photographer. its very easy. look at their portfolio and chose several models that they have worked with. send them a simple msg such as: "dear ________, I see that you have worked with _________ before. I am considering a shoot with ________ also. would you work with them again? The argument that this technique does not reveal anything is that most feel that any models in their portfolio will always give a positive response. I say not always true. they may have seen or felt or experienced something negative that they did share with the photographer. It can be very subjective. I would choose the most experienced models and message them. There are other techniques for helping you feel safe. if interested, msg me. I have listed them here before and never saw a lot of response, but they are legitimate ideas. Best wishes OP!

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
And of course, if your 'driver' is also a model, female and pretty then you'll probably find that a lot of photographers who would have balked at an escort will invite her to stick around anyway

Word.

I think the solution to the whole escort problem is for models to just go ahead and schedule shoots in pairs. Not all actual images need to be paired...but it can allow the photographer to shoot one then the other.

Much better than the jealous boyfriend half-assing the reflector idea, and actually helpful to watch for each other's wardrobe issues and such. I shot two sisters like this and it went very well.

BeautybyGod wrote:
why is it that all the people posting misinformation in these threads seems to think i have a problem with reading comprehension?

It truly is astounding how small your brain is and how poor your reading comprehension really is. I can say I'm Spiderman but that doesn't mean it's true and you can say all day long you have great reading comprehension when it's abundantly clear by reading through your posts in this thread that it is not the case.

I told you my source was the National Safety Council, who is the organization who compiles this data annually. You seemed to have skipped that several times for some reason. Being that I think it's logical to conclude that you are brand new to using computers, let me educate you just a little. There is this website you should check out. It's called, "Google", and when you type things into it, it gives you answers based on what you are looking for.

Now, I went to this website and did all of 5 seconds of searching before I found their website and their statistics. I know this may seem like a big stretch for you, but see if you can keep following along. I'll try to use small words for you. One of the top listings I found when searching for the search phrase "Annual Death Statistics" was their website. Specifically, this page:

http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injur … gFrom.aspx

This, then directed me to other pages where I got the data from within their organization. So, there you go. I'm sure you'll go whine and bitch and moan about something else in this thread or something I wrote too but I've got better things to do than argue back and forth with you when you're just too closed minded to deal with a lot of things in the space of reality. Have a happy new year!

Leone P wrote:
Would you please take the time to read the whole thread. You would then realise that I took on the advice given and no longer require an escort. I have thanked those that helped me realise my mistake and have learnt from it.

Leone P.

I'm one of the guilty as charged Leone. Usually I read through every post in a thread before responding but sometimes it's not that easy when there are so many responses. It's also highly unusual for an OP to actually learn the lesson in their thread and so, for that, you get bonus points for being open minded to change. It's nice to actually see when someone walks away from one of these forums with a positive attitude and a new-found way of thinking based upon the advice of many who have actually been there and done that. Kudos to you and keep up the good work!